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4/22/09/ |ecqf game 4 | washington @ new york | 7pm | msg (hd)

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Old
04-23-2009, 03:28 AM
  #926
Inferno
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Originally Posted by JayMan82 View Post
I don't really care about talent and stats. There continues to be one facet you continue to miss, and that's heart. If you saw a Rangers team that didn't scratch and claw their way to this point and make the individual sacrifices for the sake of this team, I don't think you would be seeing Lundqvist perform at the level he's shown the past 5 games. I truly feel each player has been inspiring, fueling one another to win at all costs. It's alarmingly clear that Washington has yet to match the Rangers in this category. FYI, the Rangers aren't the first team in NHL History to win in this manner...
and i think its incredibly short sighted to think that the phrase" heart" is only applicable to the Rangers in this series.

I dont discount the heart the rangers are showing. the effort level and commitment to win is there in spades, but i dont think they have played a good game at ALL in the offensive zone, or the neutral zone. I think the Capitals are controlling the play, dictating the pace, and setting the tone.

What I think everyone has to see is, im not taking away from our results. Henrik Lundqvist IS on this team, he is a part of this team, and thats why he gets paid what he gets paid. WE need him to steal us wins because he is our franchise player. What I am saying is this team has a HELLUVA lot more to show than it has in these 4 games thus far. Effort, sure, heart, sure, but show me a little something in the offensive zone for christ sake. They are not a good defensive team, they are not a mobile defensive team. You can pressure the puck and cause turnovers, in fact its something you can almost book on them doing.

It would be one thing entirely if Henrik was standing on his head, and we were being stymied by a solid defensive corps, or if the opposing goalie was making remarkable saves, or if we just were doign everything but finishing or if bounces just werent going our way. If that were the case, I would be saying something very differently. But to be dominated in our zone AND to be completely unable to sustain an offensive attack in their zone...to me thats not a good recipe. 90% of the time, when a team cant do squat offensively, and have this kind of pressure put on their goalie, they lose. The only time they win is if their goalie is just unbelievable. Roy has done it, Hasek has done it, Uncle Daddy has done it...now we are seeing Lundqvist do it.

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04-23-2009, 03:34 AM
  #927
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Inferno this was a classy thing to write on the caps board and I can't say that I dissagree with any of it. I am sure they are feeling pretty bad right now and we spend far to much time on these boards trying to P each other off...

The Caps are playing a heck of a series; and I really can't see what they could do better.

We in NY are reallt NOT making it easy for us. G1-2 were classic away games, and not much to say about. But in G3 we had big fundamental flaws, now in G4 we made like 100's of unsmart small plays which let the Caps pressure us like nuts...

What could the caps do better? I saw in another post how people "feared" a PP unit of Carlson, Green, AO, Semin and Bäckström -- I don't, id love to see that unit. The caps vets are Kozlov, Federov and Poti. Every7 year NHL teams overpay to get over-the-hill veterans with Cup experience for PO runs -- there is a reason for that. The caps goto players are all like 22-23 y/o. Their vets sans Feds have no experience, and Feds isn't that type of leader. Colorado/Qubeck traded Mats Sundin for Wendel Clarke; that put them over the top, along with getting Roy. If the Caps had traded John Carlsson for a vet with cupexperience things could be diffrent.

All season something have been "wrong" with the Caps. They have been great, then lost 7-0 or let in like 25 goals in 4 games or something. They don't have that Dave Andrechuck or Rod Brind'amour like Tampa and Carolina did. Teams dont carry players like Gary Roberts for fun.
Thats all ive been saying. People are acting like im doing something sacrilegious by pointing out how badly weve been outplayed, and for talking to the opposing teams fan base about how if i were them, i wouldnt change a thing.

People just seem to hate hearing anythign negative during a win, particularly in the playoffs.

you know why I point out these things? its the same reason i was so down on this team despite it being in first place most of the season earlier. THEY WERENT PLAYING WELL!!! down the stretch when we lost to Ottawa and Carolina and Boston and what have you, what I did was said if the team plays like that, they will make it to the ECF...because its not whether you win or lose, for the most part, its how well you play. sometimes, rarely, 1 man can overcome the shortcomings of the rest of his team, its rare, but we are seeing it in this series. but id be shocked if we carry that over without henrik getting some help by his teammates. Blocking shots isnt good enough, you need to play the frikkin puck in their end of the ice for christ sake.

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04-23-2009, 03:57 AM
  #928
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I feel like Inferno's being treated unfairly here. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the faults of our team or commending an opponent's fanbase for the solid offensive play of their team.

As dominant as the defense and Hank have been, the offense has been subpar. The team rarely has possession of the puck and only managed 19 shots tonight. That may not cut it if the Rangers advance. Not to mention that the Rangers have trouble staying out of the box, and although our PK is good, you don't want to be on the PK for the majority of the game.

Another thing to take into consideration is how gassed these guys must be, constantly defending in their zone and killing penalties. They may wear out quickly if they don't pick up the offense soon. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but the Rangers still have room for improvement. I am not trying to be negative here, just being realistic.

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04-23-2009, 04:05 AM
  #929
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I feel like Inferno's being treated unfairly here. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the faults of our team or commending an opponent's fanbase for the solid offensive play of their team.

As dominant as the defense and Hank have been, the offense has been subpar. The team rarely has possession of the puck and only managed 19 shots tonight. That may not cut it if the Rangers advance. Not to mention that the Rangers have trouble staying out of the box, and although our PK is good, you don't want to be on the PK for the majority of the game.

Another thing to take into consideration is how gassed these guys must be, constantly defending in their zone and killing penalties. They may wear out quickly if they don't pick up the offense soon. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but the Rangers still have room for improvement. I am not trying to be negative here, just being realistic.

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04-23-2009, 06:53 AM
  #930
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Inferno, I wasn't attacking you, I simply expressing my disappointment.

As a reader of your blog, I honestly didn't see you as the type of fan to basically bash your own team, after a HUGE win, to the fans of the opposition. It just seems like pandering to me, like you did that because you wanted them to like you and see you as somehow different or better than the rest of the Rangers fans, because you were "big" enough to go on their boards and bash the hell out of your team.

I say **** that. I say, saying the Rangers are being outplayed makes no sense because Lundqvist IS the Rangers, therefore the Rangers are the ones out-playing and out-classing the Caps, and that includes the heart of the team (Hank), and the coach as well (who has flat-out outcoached Boudreau in this series). Every player is part of the team, and the best team is winning this series. Don't believe me? Check the scoresheets, because we're about to send the other team home for the summer.

Rangers Goaltending + Rangers PK + Key goals at key times > A ton of regular season goals, a clown act, and some pretty passing in the playoffs.

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04-23-2009, 06:55 AM
  #931
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The Rangers simply match up poorly against the Caps when the Caps are sending their number one line out there every other shift. They spend so much time defending against Ovechkin that they're not getting any offense of their own going. And the Caps made some adjustments where they clogged the neutral zone quite effectively last night, and stood up at their own blueline (and Avery had like 5 offsides as well).

At the very least, the Rangers need to adjust their play in the neutral zone, because they basically just kept turning it over on their transition and allowing the Caps to go right back to offense. Better passing is needed, or at least get the puck deep and not turn it over between the blue lines.

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04-23-2009, 07:26 AM
  #932
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The Rangers have done a terrible job in pressuring the Caps D.They refuse to get the puck in deep and lay the body on the likes of Poti,Pothier,Jurcina and Morrison and Erskine.Some of those guys are pylons.Chip the puck past the D and go get it.Cross corner dumps with the Ranger winger flying towards that corner to retrieve the puck.

Safe is deep.Pucks deep.

The Caps defense is not Larry Robinson,Guy Lapointe and Serge Savard from the late 1970's Habs teams.

If the Rangers play in their end,best defense is an offense.

They have done an excellent job on Mike Green.The Rangers took a page from Bob Johnson's book when he coached Calgary in the 1980's against the Oilers.They wanted Coffey to have the puck so they could punish him physically and pressure him to give up the puck.Coffey would always carry the puck on the right side of the ice.A forward was always there to greet him.

Even Ovechkin,there are always two players waiting for Ovechkin when the crosses to the middle of the ice.

The Rangers best forwards have been the 3 kids(Brandon Dubinsky,Ryan Callahan and Lauri Korpokoski),Blair Betts and Fred Sjostrom. The two Nik's have been invisible.Naslund's play are dropped off after game two.Drury gets a pass because he is playing with one hand.Avery needs to stop eating the retard sandwiches again. Gomez is invisible.

The Rangers are trailing 3-1 without the guy in net.

The Rangers are playing and winning with Renney hockey.They have fallen back into what Renney taught them for nearly 4 years.

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:03 AM
  #933
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Very fun game to be at last night. My 6yo had a blast.

I thought the crowd was much better last night.

Avery is slipping into his playoff past....

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:07 AM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces View Post
or Detroit.

They always find late round steals, especially Swedes.

They would never lose.
Osgood's doing a pretty good job and usually does come playoff time. Not quite Henrik, but still.

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I'm still waiting for you to tell me who's playing instead of Avery.
Well, that's the problem, isn't it. I can't imagine anyone wants Voros in and Anisimov and Byers have like no experience. Having said that, if Avery's going to act like he did in the 3rd period last night we can't afford to have him in the team and I would rather have these other guys. I'm quite a big fan of Avery but that last penalty was disgraceful.
Can we gamble on one of the Hartford guys? Well, it's been done before, Helm did great in Detroit last year coming in with very little experience and so have other players. Still, I'd say it's a massive risk to be avoided if possible.
And Voros? Well, he's kind of crap but seemingly less likely to cost the team.
I think it depends. If Torts thinks Avery is gonna play his normal game and not take stupid penalties then run with him. If not though you have to look at other options even if they are bad options.

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paul mara took two stupid penalties too, and they didn't cost us either.
Certainly the second one was exceptionally dumb by Mara but at least the puck was nearby, there was some reason for him getting involved with the guy. You wouldn't see Mara slash at someone's face after the whistle.

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04-23-2009, 08:17 AM
  #935
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Colorado/Qubeck traded Mats Sundin for Wendel Clarke; that put them over the top, along with getting Roy. If the Caps had traded John Carlsson for a vet with cupexperience things could be diffrent.

All season something have been "wrong" with the Caps. They have been great, then lost 7-0 or let in like 25 goals in 4 games or something. They don't have that Dave Andrechuck or Rod Brind'amour like Tampa and Carolina did. Teams dont carry players like Gary Roberts for fun.
i wouldn't say wendel clark put the avs over the top of anything. he only played 37 games for them before he was moved in a 3 way deal that got them claude lemieux. that trade, i would say put them over. however, i agree with your general point, and i think you can say the same thing about alot of teams nowadays. there's all different kinds of leaders. some happen to be your best player. others just seems to be smart, or experienced, or know what to say or do and when to say or do it. this is something you probably don't have when your captain is in his early 20's. i don't know how well i'd respond to ovechkin screaming at me to do better if i was sitting on the bench through what should be my shift, watching while he skates through his umpteenth two+ minute shift of the night.

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04-23-2009, 09:00 AM
  #936
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Inferno, you're missing a key point.

Sure, the Caps have generated more shots and chances, and Hank has had to be at the top of his game. But we've mostly been leading, and its the Caps who have been chasing the game, and that plays a role too (that is, in addition to the fact that the Caps simply have a great offense, and we really don't).

In Games 2 and 4 in particular we got a lead and we clearly chose to be conservative and soak up pressure and rely on Hank to be Hank, which, given the makeup of our team, probably gives us the best chance to win (and which is not terribly uncommon in the NHL playoffs, actually). We know we have a top goalkeeper, and we don't apologize for it - we use him (because we also know we don't have a great team offense, but we can play great team defense). That's really been our formula for a while, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

If were were tied or trailing more often, maybe we'd chase the game more and generate more shots and chances, but would that really make anyone feel better? Actually in Game 1, when the Caps scored first we stepped up and responded and when the Caps tied it in the third we stepped up and responded. But that's not our game really.


Last edited by Kind of Blue: 04-23-2009 at 09:06 AM.
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04-23-2009, 09:17 AM
  #937
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Well done by the Rangers and Lundqvist. Can't see you guys losing three in a row to the caps. So, it looks like a future Bruins/Ranger series. However, I suggest Torts has a talk with Avery, who played a very dumb game last night. Even Larry Brooks can't defend him with those undisciplined late penalties.

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04-23-2009, 09:36 AM
  #938
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People in here sound like it's 1-3 rather than 3-1. Geez. No one can ever been happy.

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04-23-2009, 09:36 AM
  #939
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Great to get the win last night, though I fear getting the fourth will undoubtedly be the most difficult. Love Avery for what he can bring, but I've wanted to strangle him these last two games, he could have cost us big last night with that late Caps PP. All hail The King.

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04-23-2009, 09:44 AM
  #940
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Why is your goalie so good?

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:55 AM
  #941
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Well done by the Rangers and Lundqvist. Can't see you guys losing three in a row to the caps. So, it looks like a future Bruins/Ranger series. However, I suggest Torts has a talk with Avery, who played a very dumb game last night. Even Larry Brooks can't defend him with those undisciplined late penalties.
Yeah, Avery has really had a bad last couple of games. The Caps have actually also done a pretty good job against him, and I think he's getting frustrated in general.

I think the whole Rangers team is frustrated with their offense and with someone like Avery, it's spilling over into other aspects of his play. Usually he straddles the line pretty well, but he's definitely gone over it too much in the past couple of games.

I think the refs have been unduly harsh on him lately too, though. going back through the end of the season, he's had a fair amount of ticky tacky penalties called on him that are pretty clearly reputation calls

edit: was also going to agree with Rangerboy about the Rangers kind of falling back into the same style of play they did under Renney. It's partly the problem of having to defend against Ovechkin, who's on the ice for half the game, but in general the Rangers have just been sloppy in the neutral zone and it's really hurting their offense. Too many turnovers, too many times they don't get it deep, too many offsides, etc. They need to sharpen up their transition game

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04-23-2009, 10:23 AM
  #942
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The Rangers are playing and winning with Renney hockey.They have fallen back into what Renney taught them for nearly 4 years.
I'm gonna have to disagree here. It looks like that because we're stuck defending the whole game, but I really don't think it's the same gameplan they had under Renney. They're TRYING to generate offense in the ways they did early on under Torts, but it isn't working because the Caps are playing VERY well.

That makes it LOOK like we're playing the super defensive hockey we saw under Renney, but it's really just an inability to generate offense right now.

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04-23-2009, 10:37 AM
  #943
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Inferno this was a classy thing to write on the caps board and I can't say that I dissagree with any of it. I am sure they are feeling pretty bad right now and we spend far to much time on these boards trying to P each other off...
The Caps are playing a heck of a series; and I really can't see what they could do better.

We in NY are reallt NOT making it easy for us. G1-2 were classic away games, and not much to say about. But in G3 we had big fundamental flaws, now in G4 we made like 100's of unsmart small plays which let the Caps pressure us like nuts...

What could the caps do better? I saw in another post how people "feared" a PP unit of Carlson, Green, AO, Semin and Bäckström -- I don't, id love to see that unit. The caps vets are Kozlov, Federov and Poti. Every7 year NHL teams overpay to get over-the-hill veterans with Cup experience for PO runs -- there is a reason for that. The caps goto players are all like 22-23 y/o. Their vets sans Feds have no experience, and Feds isn't that type of leader. Colorado/Qubeck traded Mats Sundin for Wendel Clarke; that put them over the top, along with getting Roy. If the Caps had traded John Carlsson for a vet with cupexperience things could be diffrent.

All season something have been "wrong" with the Caps. They have been great, then lost 7-0 or let in like 25 goals in 4 games or something. They don't have that Dave Andrechuck or Rod Brind'amour like Tampa and Carolina did. Teams dont carry players like Gary Roberts for fun.
Who gives a ****! What's the point of going to the Caps board and basically saying we suck and don't deserve to win....and with the series still going on!! We're up 3-1 against one of the best teams in the NHL!! This Ranger fan just doesn't get it. The Caps have a powerhouse of an offense, they're supposed to dominate. Especially when they're playing desperate! And for us to have a chance to win this series we all knew that Henrik was going to have to stand on his head and he has. Our defensive effort has been phenomenal (except game 3) Of course I'd love to see us in theie zone more creating more chances, but in the end, the scoreboard shows us getting the job done and I'm stoked. One more baby!

My mind is blown...maybe I just don't get internet forums

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04-23-2009, 10:49 AM
  #944
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Why is your goalie so good?
The reasons are undetermined. I think he eats his Wheaties.

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04-23-2009, 10:52 AM
  #945
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The Rangers are playing and winning with Renney hockey.They have fallen back into what Renney taught them for nearly 4 years.
Wrong.

did you watch the 1st period last night? That was the signature Torts style. After they got the 2-0 lead. Yes we got real defensive but they did NOT play "renney hockey" to gain the lead, that is the difference between Renney's Rangers and the team we are now.

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04-23-2009, 11:11 AM
  #946
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Who gives a ****! What's the point of going to the Caps board and basically saying we suck and don't deserve to win....and with the series still going on!! We're up 3-1 against one of the best teams in the NHL!! This Ranger fan just doesn't get it. The Caps have a powerhouse of an offense, they're supposed to dominate. Especially when they're playing desperate! And for us to have a chance to win this series we all knew that Henrik was going to have to stand on his head and he has. Our defensive effort has been phenomenal (except game 3) Of course I'd love to see us in theie zone more creating more chances, but in the end, the scoreboard shows us getting the job done and I'm stoked. One more baby!

My mind is blown...maybe I just don't get internet forums
Even with Lundqvist in the net, if he played like he did in January we loose this game 6-1 or something. Its hard to argue against that, right?

On a scale 1 to 10 what would you call that? I would say that its a 1 or in other words that we actually did suck pretty much. Sure the players worked hard, but the Caps could have had a 5-0 lead after 30 minutes, I am not so sure the players would have worked hard for the last 30 if we were down 5-0. Working hard is something I take for granted in teh PO's.

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04-23-2009, 11:18 AM
  #947
Anthony Mauro
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Wait, since when does having a hot goalie mean wins count less?

People act as if this has never happened before (IE goalie carrying unelite forward/defense units) in the playoffs.

This is our team and they're getting it done their way. **** and Cheer 'em on!

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Old
04-23-2009, 11:22 AM
  #948
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Inferno, I wasn't attacking you, I simply expressing my disappointment.

As a reader of your blog, I honestly didn't see you as the type of fan to basically bash your own team, after a HUGE win, to the fans of the opposition. It just seems like pandering to me, like you did that because you wanted them to like you and see you as somehow different or better than the rest of the Rangers fans, because you were "big" enough to go on their boards and bash the hell out of your team.

I say **** that. I say, saying the Rangers are being outplayed makes no sense because Lundqvist IS the Rangers, therefore the Rangers are the ones out-playing and out-classing the Caps, and that includes the heart of the team (Hank), and the coach as well (who has flat-out outcoached Boudreau in this series). Every player is part of the team, and the best team is winning this series. Don't believe me? Check the scoresheets, because we're about to send the other team home for the summer.

Rangers Goaltending + Rangers PK + Key goals at key times > A ton of regular season goals, a clown act, and some pretty passing in the playoffs.
I agree. I too am very disappointed to read that. Hank is the best player on our team...and he has been the best player on the ice most of the nights during this series. I don't get how a teams wins should be discounted because its best player is winning games for them.

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04-23-2009, 11:28 AM
  #949
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I feel like Inferno's being treated unfairly here. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the faults of our team or commending an opponent's fanbase for the solid offensive play of their team.

As dominant as the defense and Hank have been, the offense has been subpar. The team rarely has possession of the puck and only managed 19 shots tonight. That may not cut it if the Rangers advance. Not to mention that the Rangers have trouble staying out of the box, and although our PK is good, you don't want to be on the PK for the majority of the game.

Another thing to take into consideration is how gassed these guys must be, constantly defending in their zone and killing penalties. They may wear out quickly if they don't pick up the offense soon. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but the Rangers still have room for improvement. I am not trying to be negative here, just being realistic.
There's certainly nothing wrong wtih acknowledging the faults of our team. But we all know the faults of our team. And you don't need to apologize for leading in a series. The point is to win, is it not? We all know this team isn't perfect...far from it. But as Rangers fans I'm pretty sure we don't need to be encouraging Caps fans in the middle of the series. That's just weak imo. When the war is over there's plenty of time for that.

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04-23-2009, 11:30 AM
  #950
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...Hank is the best player on our team...and he has been the best player on the ice most of the nights during this series. I don't get how a teams wins should be discounted because its best player is winning games for them.
You must not have heard... As of 2008-09, if a team is consistently out-shot through the playoffs but rides a top goaltender to the Stanely Cup, they have to give the Cup back.

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