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Tanguay will undergo shoulder surgery.

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:15 AM
  #26
Newhabfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
No, he isn't. Lang, Kovalev & Koivu were better.



I'm really bothered by Tanguay's case. If push came to shove I'd say let's not sign him at all. I was really happy with his play during the year. Ecstatic actually. But his two playoff games exposed what kinda of player Calgary and Colrado got rid of: a perimeter player who does great during the season but disappears when the getting gets rough during the playoffs.
When Tanguay got injured he was the top scorer of the team. And he was also making people around him look a lot better. You never know what he could have done next.

When analysing the Koivu/Kovalev/Tanguay by duos, you have to realize that the key element there was Tanguay.

As for his performance during the playoffs - he did create Higgins' goal. As for dissapearing - having a major shoulder injury does that to you.


I would really love to have him back - but don't you guys fool yourself. He got here because he had little choice. He will have plenty of choice this summer and he would be a fool to come back.
But who am I kidding

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:17 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
No, he isn't. Lang, Kovalev & Koivu were better.



I'm really bothered by Tanguay's case. If push came to shove I'd say let's not sign him at all. I was really happy with his play during the year. Ecstatic actually. But his two playoff games exposed what kinda of player Calgary and Colrado got rid of: a perimeter player who does great during the season but disappears when the getting gets rough during the playoffs.
I agree that he's not a hard nosed kind of guy and I actually came under fire for saying so when we signed him but you have to be fair here. There's no way he was healthy in those two playoff games. Its painfully obvious now why Gainey had Laraque on the 1st line.

Tanguay's a good player, he's just not going to lead us anywhere. I think we should keep him (if his demands are reasonable) but we need some snipers to go along with him.

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04-23-2009, 08:22 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
No, he isn't. Lang, Kovalev & Koivu were better.



I'm really bothered by Tanguay's case. If push came to shove I'd say let's not sign him at all. I was really happy with his play during the year. Ecstatic actually. But his two playoff games exposed what kinda of player Calgary and Colrado got rid of: a perimeter player who does great during the season but disappears when the getting gets rough during the playoffs.

I think what the last 2 playoffs games showed you was a player who was playing injured and who was thrown on the 4th line so that Laraque could play on the first.

No one is ever happy with the players we have for some reason. Complain about not have enough french players, and then when we get one who does play well, but is unfortunately injured for a good portion of the season he is worthless. Lets take a look at points per game for the season. Tanguay was one of our top players.

Alex Kovalev 0.833333333
Andrei Markov 0.820512821
Alex Tanguay 0.82
Robert Lang 0.78
Saku Koivu 0.769230769
Andrei Kostitsyn 0.554054054
Tomas Plekanec 0.4875
Mathieu Schneider 0.47761194
Guillaume Latendresse 0.464285714
Sergei Kostitsyn 0.410714286
Roman Hamrlik 0.407407407
Christopher Higgins 0.403508772
Matt D'Agostini 0.396226415
Maxim Lapierre 0.35443038
Yannick Weber 0.333333333
Max Pacioretty 0.323529412
Mathieu Dandenault 0.292682927
Patrice Brisebois 0.290322581
Josh Gorges 0.283950617
Tom Kostopoulos 0.282051282
Kyle Chipchura 0.230769231
Glen Metropolit 0.223684211
Michael Komisarek 0.166666667
Francis Bouillon 0.166666667


But lets just keep alienating the players that we can get to play for us, since it is so easy to attract UFA's.

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:33 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
No, he isn't. Lang, Kovalev & Koivu were better.
You can make a case for Kovalev due to game-breaking ability and he's the only reason I wrote "arguably", but Tanguay was better than the other two. He wasn't able to do himself justice due to his injury and being ridiculously underplayed by Carbonneau, but he is on top of so many rate stats he's not even funny. He was offensively the most productive Habs forward at 5-on-5, and close to being the best defensively. He even put up the most goals per icetime of anyone on the team!

The Habs need him, and his injury factored for a lot in the downward spiral.

More people need to check out behindthenet. Fantastic site and rate stats are so much more meaningful than counting stats. Having basic rate stats in la Presse was a big step in the right direction, but they need to be publicized more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
I'm really bothered by Tanguay's case. If push came to shove I'd say let's not sign him at all. I was really happy with his play during the year. Ecstatic actually. But his two playoff games exposed what kinda of player Calgary and Colrado got rid of: a perimeter player who does great during the season but disappears when the getting gets rough during the playoffs.
Nonsense. I'm not judging a guy who's proven himself to be an excellent player on the basis of two games he played on a fourth line with a bum shoulder (and still managed to get a point in).

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:38 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Didnt see it post here yet.

He is not happy against those who doubt that he didnt want to play to save his next contract.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/273459.html

Cry me a river. I know players from my days in NEPSAC Division I who played with separated, dislocated and other shoulder problems, many of whom required surgery and very few of whom wouldn't suck it up for a crucial game. They weren't getting paid $5.5 million and people weren't paying hundreds of dollars to watch them.

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:42 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Cry me a river. I know players from my days in NEPSAC Division I who played with separated, dislocated and other shoulder problems, many of whom required surgery and very few of whom wouldn't suck it up for a crucial game. They weren't getting paid $5.5 million and people weren't paying hundreds of dollars to watch them.
Good for them. Tanguay did play with a shoulder that wasn't fully healed so that he could help the team make the playoffs, so I'm not sure what your complaint is here.

If Tanguay got told by doctors not to play or if he couldn't move his shoulder enough to take good shots/make good passes, then he had no business being on the ice.

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Old
04-23-2009, 08:52 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post

More people need to check out behindthenet. Fantastic site and rate stats are so much more meaningful than counting stats. Having basic rate stats in la Presse was a big step in the right direction, but they need to be publicized more.
Thanks for pointing me to that site, been looking for some stats like that.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:01 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Good for them. Tanguay did play with a shoulder that wasn't fully healed so that he could help the team make the playoffs, so I'm not sure what your complaint is here.

If Tanguay got told by doctors not to play or if he couldn't move his shoulder enough to take good shots/make good passes, then he had no business being on the ice.
He is the one determining whether he plays or not. If you think Kunitz or Getzlaf or Hartnell or Ovechkin or KOIVU or some other warrior wouldn't play with a hurt shoulder when you're down in a playoff series, you're wrong. These guys know that it takes sacrifice to win. I always knew Tanguay was a softie and predicted before the series that he wouldn't sacrifice.

The lesson to take out of the series is the same one from last year and the same one we learned when Ribeiro was around: You can't win with so many soft, gutless players.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:09 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
No, he isn't. Lang, Kovalev & Koivu were better.



I'm really bothered by Tanguay's case. If push came to shove I'd say let's not sign him at all. I was really happy with his play during the year. Ecstatic actually. But his two playoff games exposed what kinda of player Calgary and Colrado got rid of: a perimeter player who does great during the season but disappears when the getting gets rough during the playoffs.
ROFL Tanguay has been a very important asset to us since we signed him. He was injured for a long while, but when he played, you noticed his contribution.

for this season, cause Tanguay was arguably injured for the POs.
Kovalev 0.83333 ppg
Tanguay 0.82 ppg

right... When Tanguay left due to injury, things started going downhill.
I'll sign Tanguay over Kovy any time any where. Kovy's good, but Tanguay has shown what he still is capable of for upcoming years.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:17 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
He is the one determining whether he plays or not. If you think Kunitz or Getzlaf or Hartnell or Ovechkin or KOIVU or some other warrior wouldn't play with a hurt shoulder when you're down in a playoff series, you're wrong. These guys know that it takes sacrifice to win. I always knew Tanguay was a softie and predicted before the series that he wouldn't sacrifice.
That's stupid on so many levels.

If the guy cannot play, he cannot play, period. Shoulder injuries are not the same as, let's say, groin or leg injuries. One hit could potentially finish your career by aggravating the injury. Sure, Tanguay could have asked to be shot up with Cortisone and test it out, but we saw how that worked out for Bouillon.

And for the people who are saying Tanguay isn't good in the playoffs, his stats tend to disagree. While not spectacular and achieved mostly on a very stacked Avs team, the fact remains that with a healthy Tanguay, we would have had a better chance in this series.

But keep blaming the injured players for not ''sacrificing'' for the team. Your doing the exact same thing the media's doing and it seems to work pretty good.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:23 AM
  #36
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Tanguay won't be back. He has always said he'd never play for the habs, I believe this year just reinforced why that is.
He is so soft though i don't think he is a guy i would spend the money he will command anyway.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:37 AM
  #37
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Listening to audio on HIO, Tanguay seems very frustrated with the media at first. He then changes his tune saying that he loves the city and fans but at the beginning he sounded like he wants out.

I personally doubt he will be back unless we overpay.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:37 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Higgins 21 View Post
I'm sure nobody believed the stupid media anyway.
I'm sure no one did but Demers is a well respected guy and the fact that he was the one to come out with the ''rumour'' baffles me. He is one of the better analysts around but I guess everyone can make mistakes sometimes.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:38 AM
  #39
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Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay will be back.

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Old
04-23-2009, 09:55 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
He is the one determining whether he plays or not. If you think Kunitz or Getzlaf or Hartnell or Ovechkin or KOIVU or some other warrior wouldn't play with a hurt shoulder when you're down in a playoff series, you're wrong. These guys know that it takes sacrifice to win. I always knew Tanguay was a softie and predicted before the series that he wouldn't sacrifice.

The lesson to take out of the series is the same one from last year and the same one we learned when Ribeiro was around: You can't win with so many soft, gutless players.
Phil Kessel is even softer.

Tom Kostopoulos! Now that is a momentum changing, tough guy!

The Bruins wish they'd have tougher players up front than Savard, Kessel, Krejci and Ryder.

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Old
04-23-2009, 10:01 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Nonsense. I'm not judging a guy who's proven himself to be an excellent player on the basis of two games he played on a fourth line with a bum shoulder (and still managed to get a point in).
That fourth line was more like the second line for the Canadiens during those two games. Take a look at the time on ice, Tanguay played about 15:30 per game, roughly 30 seconds less per game than his season average of 16 minutes.

Not saying that he isn't useful (I think he should be re-signed), but he was played quite a bit and didn't contribute much, although the injury is a valid excuse.

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Old
04-23-2009, 10:43 AM
  #42
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So Demers just ducked the puck here?

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04-23-2009, 11:10 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Higgins 21 View Post
I'm sure nobody believed the stupid media anyway.
No kidding, but why stir **** then? I would never believe a guy like Tangauy would refuse to play for a reason like that. Maybe if his son died or something of the sort, but not because of a future contract..

Media

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Old
04-23-2009, 11:20 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by LeFREAK View Post
Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay will be back.

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Old
04-23-2009, 11:25 AM
  #45
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Note to the players : The media can be cruel in every other NHL city as well. The 5 million a season should cover any therapy you need if your feelings get hurt.

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Old
04-23-2009, 11:27 AM
  #46
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I heard Demers speculate in English and in French that Tanguay would be playing if he had a contract for next season. If he says otherwise, he is lying.

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Old
04-23-2009, 11:30 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
I heard Demers speculate in English and in French that Tanguay would be playing if he had a contract for next season. If he says otherwise, he is lying.
Or you are.

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Old
04-23-2009, 11:36 AM
  #48
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He's not going to sign with the Habs. Noone is, other than Koivu and the only reason he's staying is because he's so grateful to the team for the way he was treated when he had cancer.

Our fans, the media and the stupid language issue is the one thing that separates us from all the other teams. It worked in our favour when the Habs had first dibs on French players in the past and now it works against us.

Racism never wins. What's happening to the Habs now is similar to what happened to Montreal in the 70s when it surrendered its status as Canada's leading city to Toronto and went through a terrible recession.

Racism never wins.

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Old
04-23-2009, 12:03 PM
  #49
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Demers

Demers explains himself on RDS:
"Certains de mes propos au sujet de Mathieu Schneider et Alex Tanguay ont été mal interprétés et ont été mal traduits, ce qui a laissé place à une certaine ambiguïté. Je vais profiter des prochaines lignes pour tenter de clarifier les choses.

Il est important de préciser que je n'ai jamais insinué que les deux joueurs avaient refusé de jouer. Ils sont blessés et ils ont décidé de ne pas courir le risque d'aggraver leurs blessures. Ils ont vu Francis Bouillon se blesser à nouveau lors du deuxième match et ils ne voulaient pas revenir s'ils n'étaient pas à 100% et je peux les comprendre. Ils seront joueurs autonomes sans compensations le premier juillet et blessés, ils pourraient avoir du mal à dénicher un contrat.

Je n'ai jamais prétendu que Schneider et Tanguay refusaient de jouer. Ils sont blessés et j'ai simplement expliqué dans quelle situation ils se trouvent actuellement. Je les comprends."

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Old
04-23-2009, 12:21 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Phil Kessel is even softer.

Tom Kostopoulos! Now that is a momentum changing, tough guy!

The Bruins wish they'd have tougher players up front than Savard, Kessel, Krejci and Ryder.
Kessel, Krejci, Savard, Ryder all played in every game and didn't complain once. Kessel had 4 goals, Ryder had 3 or 4 goals, Savard must have had 6 or 7 points in the series. What did that soft piece of **** Tanguay do? These players may be physically as soft as Tanguay but the evidence suggests that they are at least mentally a lot more committed to winning.

Kostopoulos? Who said anything about Kostopoulos? What about a Chris Kunits, a Ryan Getzlaf, a Brandon Dubinsky? Someone who has talent and guts.

No more soft, gutless players - physically or mentally soft.


Last edited by Catch-22: 04-23-2009 at 12:35 PM.
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