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Gainey's Post-Mortem - Thursday at 4:00PM( ALL GAINEY TALK HERE)

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Old
04-23-2009, 11:03 AM
  #26
Goldthorpe
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Originally Posted by emb24 View Post
what's with the assumption of new ownership? Gillette made it clear he wants a minority partner
Assuming this isn't sarcasm from your part: Yes, obviously that's what he wants, it would be perfect for him - he would keep control of the club AND he wouldn't have money problems anynmore.. But it doesn't mean that's what will happen. And the more time pass, the less options he has. The potential buyers know time is on their side.

But if Gainey step down this afternoon and he's replaced by someone else than a fall guy (ex: Julien Brisebois), when we'll know you are actually right, and that Gillette has no intention of selling.

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04-23-2009, 11:03 AM
  #27
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I don't think you can consider it anything but a failure since we've had basically no playoff success, but I really don't think Gainey did a bad job as a GM. He's made mistakes, but he's also been pretty good at correcting them (trading Theodore after massive contract, booting Samsonov, etc.). We had the best record in the East last year and on paper our team was better heading into this season. I don't think anyone was disappointed in the roster on opening night so it's kind of unfair to blast him for it now.

But yes, the rebuild was a failure because we're now forced to start over almost entirely from scratch (especially since we can't sign the good UFAs and we're probably going to lose some of our "better" players). The potential is there to be Islanders bad next year.

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04-23-2009, 11:05 AM
  #28
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I don't think you can consider it anything but a failure since we've had basically no playoff success, but I really don't think Gainey did a bad job as a GM. He's made mistakes, but he's also been pretty good at correcting them (trading Theodore after massive contract, booting Samsonov, etc.). We had the best record in the East last year and on paper our team was better heading into this season. I don't think anyone was disappointed in the roster on opening night so it's kind of unfair to blast him for it now.

But yes, the rebuild was a failure because we're now forced to start over almost entirely from scratch (especially since we can't sign the good UFAs and we're probably going to lose some of our "better" players). The potential is there to be Islanders bad next year.
True. If you look at the team's history from 1993 onwards it has essentially been a 15-year rebuild. The trade of Roy probably signalled the first chapter.

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04-23-2009, 11:16 AM
  #29
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I hope he reams the classless fans some more - those idiots need to understand that they're helping destroy the club. What FA in his right mind would want to play here ot stay here?
And I hope he reams the media way more than he ever did. I hope that some media can be put in court for their story that in the end, nobody was accused of anything. Time to put the media and the fans to their place. And without the media who won't be the brain of the stupid fans we have, well there wouldn't be stupid fans. Why do you think that Réjean Tremblay keeps talking day after day after day about the Habs and how bad they are. How Gainey and Timmins are now racists (or call it as you want) for not going the Q road. While I don't agree with them, it has nothing to do with not liking the guys that speak french which is exactly what Tremblay is saying. And others as well. Isn't it appropriate for a ****ing response once and for all? How about Gainey stop being the press' doormat?

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Originally Posted by Top Corner2 View Post
All I'm hearing lately is about how we are no better off as an organization as we were 5 years ago. Personally I find this to be untrue.

2003-04 roster:


# NAME POS HT WT DOB PLACE OF BIRTH
30 Mathieu Garon G 6-2 199 1/9/78 Chandler, PQ
60 Jose Theodore G 5-11 179 9/13/76 Laval, PQ

51 Francis Bouillon D 5-8 194 10/17/75 New York, NY
43 Patrice Brisebois D 6-2 203 1/27/71 Montreal, PQ
28 Karl Dykhuis D 6-3 209 7/8/72 Sept-Iles, PQ
8 Mike Komisarek D 6-4 240 1/19/82 West Islip, NY
79 Andrei Markov D 6-0 198 12/20/78 Voskresensk, USSR
5 Stephane Quintal D 6-3 231 10/22/68 Boucherville, PQ
52 Craig Rivet D 6-2 207 9/13/74 North Bay, ON
44 Sheldon Souray D 6-4 223 7/13/76 Elk Point, AB

26 Pierre Dagenais LW 6-5 215 3/3/78 Blainville, PQ
15 Darren Langdon LW 6-1 205 1/8/71 Deer Lake, NF
71 Mike Ribeiro LW 6-1 176 2/10/80 Montreal, PQ

22 Steve Begin C 5-11 190 6/14/78 Trois-Rivieres, PQ
38 Jan Bulis C 6-2 201 3/18/78 Pardubice, Czechoslovakia
34 Jim Dowd C 6-1 190 12/25/68 Brick, NJ
90 Joe Juneau C 6-0 190 1/5/68 Pont-Rouge, PQ
11 Saku Koivu C 5-10 181 11/23/74 Turku, Finland
94 Yanic Perreault C 5-11 185 4/4/71 Sherbrooke, PQ

24 Andreas Dackell RW 5-11 194 12/29/72 Gavle, Sweden
27 Alexei Kovalev RW 6-1 220 2/24/73 Togliatti, USSR
73 Michael Ryder RW 6-0 196 3/31/80 St. John's, NF
37 Niklas Sundstrom RW 6-0 195 6/6/75 Ornskoldsvik, Sweden
17 Jason Ward RW 6-3 197 1/16/79 Chapleau, ON
20 Richard Zednik RW 6-0 200 1/6/76 Bystrica, Czechoslovakia
True. I know though that at this present moment (not talking about the draft picks who that is mostly Timmins work), I would take the 2003-2004 d-men than the ones we have now. You don't think that Rivet-Souray-Quintal-Bouillon-Brisebois-Markov, that's better than what we have now. I know I would have taken an aging Quintal than a O'Byrne. And then a Rivet-Souray would have been the best #3-#4 after the #1-#2 of Komi and Markov. But then, it's tough to see the point of that exercice 'cause we have something called the salary cap and Souray and Rivet ended up being UFA's. But hockeywise and players for players, better d-men in 03-04.

Up front, well Langdon was doing a better job than Laraque. Centermen still sucked at the time, though would Ribeiro have become the players he is today? A Koivu-Ribeiro tandem would have been better than a Koivu-Pleks.

Kovalev-Ryder-Zednik on the wings....that's not too bad. But then are we comparing what they were doing at the time, or what they are capable of doing or what they would do this year?

One thing is sure, Timmins had the ability to replenish that lineup. But does Timmins work appear better 'cause his predecessor sucked balls immensely? Probably not. Timmins did a great job with the depth. But besides 1998, the scouting staff was awful and beyond awful. Reason why we had to go and get the Dackell of this world.

Goalie wise, well at the time, seems to me that Theo was better than what Price is giving.....but clear that we made the right move by trading a guy that clearly for them was going downhill and the tandem has the potential to be much better....but then if we don't alienate Halak in the process which to me should already been done, thanks to Gainey's stubborness....


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Old
04-23-2009, 11:20 AM
  #30
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Unless the plan was to have a medicore team in 5 years then yes it has obviously failed.

Forget looking at the team on paper, the games are played on the ice.The team as it was on the ice that Gainey took over was better then this years edition and made it to the second round of the playoffs knocking off none other then the ruins. This team didn't do that and this team will be even worse next year with the mess of UFA's. Our shot was last year and Gainey made his team worse at the deadline by rolling the dice and going with Price, which proved to be to much to soon for the kid.
Boy where do I begin.....

This is not a mediocre team. Markov is not Mediocre, The kostitsyns are not mediocre, Lang is not Mediocre, neither is Hamrlik. Komisarek is not Mediocre and neither is Kovalev, neither is Plekanec. This is a GOOD team. This is essentially the same team that finished 2nd overall last season. 1 Playoff series does not a failure make.

On the ice the team finished 2nd overall last season. I think you're putting way too much stock in a 4 game series.

As for next season. Most of those UFA's will return. Those that don't will be replaced, hopefully with even better players.

I agree with you that going with Price was a mistake. I think they sacrificed this season to give Price some experiance. On the upside, we'll get a much higher pick in the draft next season. Could we use it to trade for a stud 1st line forward maybe?

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04-23-2009, 11:34 AM
  #31
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I don't think you can consider it anything but a failure since we've had basically no playoff success, but I really don't think Gainey did a bad job as a GM. He's made mistakes, but he's also been pretty good at correcting them (trading Theodore after massive contract, booting Samsonov, etc.). We had the best record in the East last year and on paper our team was better heading into this season. I don't think anyone was disappointed in the roster on opening night so it's kind of unfair to blast him for it now.

But yes, the rebuild was a failure because we're now forced to start over almost entirely from scratch (especially since we can't sign the good UFAs and we're probably going to lose some of our "better" players). The potential is there to be Islanders bad next year.
I think Gainey made a lot of mistakes here, probably too many at this point. The one that really bothers me now (and it didn't at the time) was the Huet trade...we were a lock for the playoffs and fighting for first at the time and instead of acquiring some help, he actually let Huet go.

He has tried to get UFAs but it's obvious that no UFA worth a lick will ever come to Montreal - so we have to completely rely upon drafting players and then use them or trade them for players. He has made a few impact trades, but it just seems that he didn't pull the trigger when he needed to. He was TOO patient.

We have been competitive but we're still not serious about contending for a cup.

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04-23-2009, 11:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Boy where do I begin.....

This is not a mediocre team. Markov is not Mediocre, The kostitsyns are not mediocre, Lang is not Mediocre, neither is Hamrlik. Komisarek is not Mediocre and neither is Kovalev, neither is Plekanec. This is a GOOD team. This is essentially the same team that finished 2nd overall last season. 1 Playoff series does not a failure make.

On the ice the team finished 2nd overall last season. I think you're putting way too much stock in a 4 game series.

As for next season. Most of those UFA's will return. Those that don't will be replaced, hopefully with even better players.

I agree with you that going with Price was a mistake. I think they sacrificed this season to give Price some experiance. On the upside, we'll get a much higher pick in the draft next season. Could we use it to trade for a stud 1st line forward maybe?
I agree that on paper we had a good team. However, that means nothing. Its what you do on the ice, and what this team did on the ice this season was mediocre. VERY mediocre.

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04-23-2009, 11:49 AM
  #33
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I think Gainey made a lot of mistakes here, probably too many at this point. The one that really bothers me now (and it didn't at the time) was the Huet trade...we were a lock for the playoffs and fighting for first at the time and instead of acquiring some help, he actually let Huet go.

He has tried to get UFAs but it's obvious that no UFA worth a lick will ever come to Montreal - so we have to completely rely upon drafting players and then use them or trade them for players. He has made a few impact trades, but it just seems that he didn't pull the trigger when he needed to. He was TOO patient.

We have been competitive but we're still not serious about contending for a cup.

Problem being, if had kept him and then he bolted , people would be screaming that we got nothing for him (a la Streit, Souray)

Cant win no matter what he does

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04-23-2009, 11:55 AM
  #34
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Problem being, if had kept him and then he bolted , people would be screaming that we got nothing for him (a la Streit, Souray)

Cant win no matter what he does
Souray was replaced with Hamrlik

Streit was not replaced though - we rolled the dice on O'Byrne and company to pick up the slack and we lost on that one big time.

With Huet, we were in a playoff spot without a doubt and he didn't even trade Huet for a warm body! In essence, he made our team worse for the playoffs.

I'm a Gainey fan, but we have to change the way things are done or we're not going anywhere.

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04-23-2009, 11:55 AM
  #35
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Problem being, if had kept him and then he bolted , people would be screaming that we got nothing for him (a la Streit, Souray)

Cant win no matter what he does
Well sure he could have won...not saying Huet would have been different but even if he bolted but because of him we would have went to the 3rd round....it would have been the first 3rd round in 15 years. Would have been worth it. Streit and Souray, not only you lost them, but the end result is that you lost them for really nothing. Though the screaming as far as losing both for nothing, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with what happen July 1st of that year they left. It's the fact that Souray had to be recongized before as an important piece of this defense corps. That people had to recognize that he had a great leadership. That he was tough and him, compared to somebody I won't mention, will back it up whenever he's pushed to the limit. This had to be recognize and it also had to be recognize that despite a few highlight reels he was on the wrong end of it, he wasn't that bad of a d-man. And was more important to the team than Hamrlik will ever dream to be for almost the same amount of money. I honestly prefer to overpay Souray for all the intangibles he brings than Hamrlik...

As far as Streit, well his importance on the PP had to be recognized. And if what was said was true, that Streit was ready to sign 2.5 in the middle of the season, well they had to give him a chance on D, give him the tons of confidence he needed, and for 2.5, it would have been a great bargain. But they thought that O'Byrne was ready, which he wasn't.

Add to the fact that, at least as far as I'm concerned, both guys were ready to stay and loved their time in Montreal. As if we have A LOT of players who want to play here, we had 2, and we let them go succeed elsewhere.

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04-23-2009, 11:57 AM
  #36
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Well sure he could have won...not saying Huet would have been different but even if he bolted but because of him we would have went to the 3rd round....it would have been the first 3rd round in 15 years. Would have been worth it. Streit and Souray, not only you lost them, but the end result is that you lost them for really nothing. Though the screaming as far as losing both for nothing, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with what happen July 1st of that year they left. It's the fact that Souray had to be recongized before as an important piece of this defense corps. That people had to recognize that he had a great leadership. That he was tough and him, compared to somebody I won't mention, will back it up whenever he's pushed to the limit. This had to be recognize and it also had to be recognize that despite a few highlight reels he was on the wrong end of it, he wasn't that bad of a d-man.

As far as Streit, well his importance on the PP had to be recognized. And if what was said was true, that Streit was ready to sign 2.5 in the middle of the season, well they had to give him a chance on D, give him the tons of confidence he needed, and for 2.5, it would have been a great bargain. But they thought that O'Byrne was ready, which he wasn't.

Add to the fact that, at least as far as I'm concerned, both guys were ready to stay and loved their time in Montreal. As if we have A LOT of players who want to play here, we had 2, and we let them go succeed elsewhere.
This is a really good point...sad to think about that.

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04-23-2009, 12:10 PM
  #37
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I agree that on paper we had a good team. However, that means nothing. Its what you do on the ice, and what this team did on the ice this season was mediocre. VERY mediocre.

How is that Bob's fault? He put together a very good team. Untimely injuries to key players and poor performances from young players is what made this season mediocre.

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04-23-2009, 12:12 PM
  #38
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Is the Press Conference at 1:30? If so will Team 990 be covering it?

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04-23-2009, 12:18 PM
  #39
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1991-92 ended exactly the same way... the main difference is that Serge Savard is not being attacked mercilessly as Gainey is...

Besides, it's not like nothing has been achieved. The Canadiens have made four playoff appearances in five seasons... this follows a period when they made one playoff appearance in five seasons. The most recent five year stretch features more competitive teams as the previous had establishing expansion teams...

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04-23-2009, 12:29 PM
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1991-92 ended exactly the same way... the main difference is that Serge Savard is not being attacked mercilessly as Gainey is...

Besides, it's not like nothing has been achieved. The Canadiens have made four playoff appearances in five seasons... this follows a period when they made one playoff appearance in five seasons. The most recent five year stretch features more competitive teams as the previous had establishing expansion teams...
In the years we made the playoffs, we were only a contender once and we traded away a veteran goaltender for a 2nd round pick, put all the pressure on a 21 year old rookie, and didn't acquire any other warm bodies for the stretch run.

Do we want to win the cup or do we just want to make the playoffs and see what happens? I heard Gainey's post-game talk yesterday and he spoke about our objective this year was to "make the playoffs. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Seriously?

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04-23-2009, 12:31 PM
  #41
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its on now on RIS

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04-23-2009, 12:34 PM
  #42
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Is there anywhere to hear this without RIS?

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04-23-2009, 12:39 PM
  #43
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its on now on RIS
Really? Team 990 has been saying 4:00 all day...

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04-23-2009, 12:40 PM
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its on now on RIS
no it's not...

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04-23-2009, 12:41 PM
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It's not on RIS.

It's still reported ot be at 4.

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04-23-2009, 12:44 PM
  #46
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sorry guys i didnt meant the gainey PC

their live from brossard and will have players interview and analysis ect

gainey PC is at 4pm

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04-23-2009, 12:46 PM
  #47
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Well sure he could have won...not saying Huet would have been different but even if he bolted but because of him we would have went to the 3rd round....it would have been the first 3rd round in 15 years. Would have been worth it. Streit and Souray, not only you lost them, but the end result is that you lost them for really nothing. Though the screaming as far as losing both for nothing, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with what happen July 1st of that year they left. It's the fact that Souray had to be recongized before as an important piece of this defense corps. That people had to recognize that he had a great leadership. That he was tough and him, compared to somebody I won't mention, will back it up whenever he's pushed to the limit. This had to be recognize and it also had to be recognize that despite a few highlight reels he was on the wrong end of it, he wasn't that bad of a d-man. And was more important to the team than Hamrlik will ever dream to be for almost the same amount of money. I honestly prefer to overpay Souray for all the intangibles he brings than Hamrlik...

As far as Streit, well his importance on the PP had to be recognized. And if what was said was true, that Streit was ready to sign 2.5 in the middle of the season, well they had to give him a chance on D, give him the tons of confidence he needed, and for 2.5, it would have been a great bargain. But they thought that O'Byrne was ready, which he wasn't.

Add to the fact that, at least as far as I'm concerned, both guys were ready to stay and loved their time in Montreal. As if we have A LOT of players who want to play here, we had 2, and we let them go succeed elsewhere.
3rd round...that and 50 cents gets you a chocolate bar at the dollar store. Better a 2nd round pick than nothing at all.

The only trade I wished would've happened was Souray to Atlanta for Coburn like Philly did.

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04-23-2009, 12:46 PM
  #48
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This is why Gainey will be gone

I think the huet trade was the start of the downfall.

I mean really, that was a horrible deal. Huet was our #1, was experienced. Price was a rookie ffs. Even Carbo said that Price was not ready, and if I remember correctly, thought that Price should be in Hamilton last year. I'm pretty sure that Gainey made him backup, against Carbo's advice.

I can't understand how you trade your #1 goalie before going into the playoffs?? I have to believe that another GM f** him. It's the only explanation.

Think about it, you're in year 4 of your 5 year plan to win a cup. Things are going all hunky dory. Team is clicking, coasting into the playoffs. Hell, you are even considered contenders for the cup. Then, you screw everything up by trying to make a 20-year old who is not ready your #1. Bad Bad Bad.

He made a few other mistakes. Sourray, Streit, those are big ones. Samsonov & Theodore he corrected. Ribs..well...another mistake.

Firing Carbo, that was fine.

Gaineys line combinations in the playoffs, mistake. You take the top line in the NHL from the last 20 games of the season, then split them up in the first round of the playoffs.

Gainey not at least attempting to start Halak in Game #3 or #4. Mistake.

I think he's made 2 bad decisions for every good 1. Yes, he did not manage to crush his team like ferguson did in TO...

wait...

He sorta did. Look at the UFA list. Toronto is now in rebuild mode. And now, so are the Habs. In fact, I think Toronto is in a better situation because they have higher draft picks.

I mean, I love gainey. I Respect his calmness. I respect his career. No one is better at handling the media here than him. But.....someone has to take the blame for epic collapse. It's gonna be about profits and revenue. Next year, they are dropping regardless. His head is going to roll.

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04-23-2009, 12:48 PM
  #49
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In the years we made the playoffs, we were only a contender once and we traded away a veteran goaltender for a 2nd round pick, put all the pressure on a 21 year old rookie, and didn't acquire any other warm bodies for the stretch run.

Do we want to win the cup or do we just want to make the playoffs and see what happens? I heard Gainey's post-game talk yesterday and he spoke about our objective this year was to "make the playoffs. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Seriously?
Yea. One thing at a time.
Our objective was to make the POs, and once there, hopefully make a push for the cup.
Unfortunately, many things happened throughout the year that made our chances to make POs diminish.
We had a team that had no structure throughout the year. The fact we were able to hold off and keep a PO spot is a testament on just how much talent we have in this team.

In the end, the lack of structure and big injuries to key players made us look like a bottom placed team.

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04-23-2009, 12:55 PM
  #50
Capitano
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Yea. One thing at a time.
Our objective was to make the POs, and once there, hopefully make a push for the cup.
Unfortunately, many things happened throughout the year that made our chances to make POs diminish.
We had a team that had no structure throughout the year. The fact we were able to hold off and keep a PO spot is a testament on just how much talent we have in this team.

In the end, the lack of structure and big injuries to key players made us look like a bottom placed team.
I don't think our players are all that bad...we just need a coach who has a system of ANY kind!

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