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Gainey's Post-Mortem - Thursday at 4:00PM( ALL GAINEY TALK HERE)

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Old
04-23-2009, 12:57 PM
  #51
gusfring
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Originally Posted by mabus View Post
Boy where do I begin.....

This is not a mediocre team. Markov is not Mediocre, The kostitsyns are not mediocre, Lang is not Mediocre, neither is Hamrlik. Komisarek is not Mediocre and neither is Kovalev, neither is Plekanec. This is a GOOD team. This is essentially the same team that finished 2nd overall last season. 1 Playoff series does not a failure make.

On the ice the team finished 2nd overall last season. I think you're putting way too much stock in a 4 game series.

As for next season. Most of those UFA's will return. Those that don't will be replaced, hopefully with even better players.

I agree with you that going with Price was a mistake. I think they sacrificed this season to give Price some experiance. On the upside, we'll get a much higher pick in the draft next season. Could we use it to trade for a stud 1st line forward maybe?
Mediocre = Average. We're a mediocre team right now. That's all there is to it.

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04-23-2009, 12:58 PM
  #52
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Face the facts people, even if Gainey would have won the Stanley Cup you'd still find some stupid reason to complain about him.

Most fans on this board wouldn't be able to recognize progress if it hit them in the face and will only focus on the 'mistakes' (in quotes because I don't believe they were all mistakes) and won't even consider the good he did. After coming off Rejean Houle before him, I'll take another 5 years of Gainey with open arms.

And about that 5 year plan everyone likes to take so literally. I think people are already forgetting what happened in 2004-2005, or maybe they just started following hockey after that and are basing their 'facts' on that. Gainey announced his 5 year plan BEFORE the lockout, and before the new CBA was even being thought of. The new CBA added a whole new dimension to being a GM in the NHL and made the job tougher for a whole lot of them. As soon as Gainey started talking about a 5 year plan, everyone earmarked it to be fact that the Habs would win the Cup after 5 years. Come on now...

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04-23-2009, 01:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Oh yeah Huet, you mean the guy who became Washinton's #1 goalie and then let in a bunch of weak goals against Philly in their round 1 series loss?

Yeah he woulda saved everything, no decline and fall from those moves.

Then the habs coulda matched that 4 year 5.5 million offer he got from Chicago, only to become their multimillionaire backup goalie due to his weak play.

Glad we have a genius like you "kovaless" as GM, a guy who knows all the facts and makes the right calls.
Did the Huet deal help us or hurt last year for the playoffs?

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04-23-2009, 01:06 PM
  #54
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I wonder if TSN will broadcast it? I doubt it, but I hope so.

Every time I try to watch it on a french station they always do voice overs so they can translate it when he talks english..

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04-23-2009, 01:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
I wonder if TSN will broadcast it? I doubt it, but I hope so.

Every time I try to watch it on a french station they always do voice overs so they can translate it when he talks english..
rds.ca will have it on their website

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Old
04-23-2009, 01:09 PM
  #56
Kriss E
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I can't understand how you trade your #1 goalie before going into the playoffs?? I have to believe that another GM f** him. It's the only explanation.

Gainey not at least attempting to start Halak in Game #3 or #4. Mistake.
First off, Huet wasn't our #1 at the time, just like the years before. It was always a question mark. Sometimes he played like a starter, others like a back up.
Right now, after hitting the UFA and choosing himself the team he wanted to play on, he's a back up with a 5.6M Cap Hit.

It was clear Huet wasn't going to resign here. The fact he chose Chicago where they already had Khabibulin proves he was only going after the biggest pay day.

As of today, Huet has only played 1 more PO game than Price.
We would have lost Huet for nothing, could he have helped us more than Halak in the POs last year?..Maybe, but there's no way of knowing that. The only thing we can look at is his stat from his PO in WSH, GAA 3.92 Sv%.91.

One thing for sure, Gainey knew he was gonna lose him, so he traded him. There's also the big question mark with the Hossa deal, where he was supposed to get Hedberg here as a veteran back up.

Nonetheless, The Huet trade wasn't a mistake because we were losing him anyways. Not bringing in a veteran as a back up was a mistake.

As for him not attempting to put Halak in. You can't say it's a mistake because we don't know how Halak would have responded. I'd have liked to see Halak in Game 3, but maybe it wouldn't have changed a thing.

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Old
04-23-2009, 01:23 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by kovaless View Post
Gaineys line combinations in the playoffs, mistake. You take the top line in the NHL from the last 20 games of the season, then split them up in the first round of the playoffs.
Nothing wrong with your other points, those are your opinions...but this one is just wrong. They were only together for the last 10 games of the season, and the majority of their destruction came against the Leafs, Islanders, Lightning and Thrashers. When they played against good teams, they were shut down rather easily.

And it's obvious now that Gainey was giving Tanguay sheltered minutes. Putting him on the first line would have put him up against Chara, and he would have been even more ineffective than he was. Instead Laraque was the one taking all the punishment from Chara on that line. This is what so many people don't understand about that whole "omg Laraque on the first line" stuff.

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04-23-2009, 01:25 PM
  #58
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Who else hates RIS? What a waster of money.

Also, why are people paying to watch advertisements? It's a specialty channel, there shouldn't be any...

Anyhow, I hate RDS and RIS... worst Sports network in North America.

It sucks to live where people just swallow the pill and say nothing... they pay and shut up... if fans could see how other networks or other teams manage the branding, they'ld freak out...

I WANT THE UNCUT VERSION OF THE INTERVIEWS

I hate RIS. Who gives a **** what these guys think of each player...

WTF... they just talked for like 1 minute... AND IT'S BACK TO COMMERCIALS!

/me kills kittens.

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Old
04-23-2009, 01:31 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
And it's obvious now that Gainey was giving Tanguay sheltered minutes. Putting him on the first line would have put him up against Chara, and he would have been even more ineffective than he was. Instead Laraque was the one taking all the punishment from Chara on that line. This is what so many people don't understand about that whole "omg Laraque on the first line" stuff.
good point there.... Tanguay is not taking hits well with a bum-side/shoulder. This has not been discussed much.

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Old
04-23-2009, 01:37 PM
  #60
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First off, Huet wasn't our #1 at the time, just like the years before. It was always a question mark. Sometimes he played like a starter, others like a back up.
Right now, after hitting the UFA and choosing himself the team he wanted to play on, he's a back up with a 5.6M Cap Hit.

It was clear Huet wasn't going to resign here. The fact he chose Chicago where they already had Khabibulin proves he was only going after the biggest pay day.

As of today, Huet has only played 1 more PO game than Price.
We would have lost Huet for nothing, could he have helped us more than Halak in the POs last year?..Maybe, but there's no way of knowing that. The only thing we can look at is his stat from his PO in WSH, GAA 3.92 Sv%.91.

One thing for sure, Gainey knew he was gonna lose him, so he traded him. There's also the big question mark with the Hossa deal, where he was supposed to get Hedberg here as a veteran back up.

Nonetheless, The Huet trade wasn't a mistake because we were losing him anyways. Not bringing in a veteran as a back up was a mistake.

As for him not attempting to put Halak in. You can't say it's a mistake because we don't know how Halak would have responded. I'd have liked to see Halak in Game 3, but maybe it wouldn't have changed a thing.
Trading Huet didn't help us for that year...the year where we actually had a chance to make some noise we let go of one of our goalies, and we got a draft pick for him...yay. If we were going to trade Huet, we should have got a serviceable player back that would help us for the playoffs. We got worse by trading Huet that year.

Gainey is paid to make decisions, and his success or failures are based on those decisions.

The Huet deal was a mistake, I don't see how it can be argued now. He traded Huet for a 2nd round pick that he turned into Lang and we flopped this year. He sacrificed last year's security for this year's possibility and it came up snake eyes. You could call it bad luck or whatever, but it was a failure.

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Old
04-23-2009, 02:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
Trading Huet didn't help us for that year...the year where we actually had a chance to make some noise we let go of one of our goalies, and we got a draft pick for him...yay. If we were going to trade Huet, we should have got a serviceable player back that would help us for the playoffs. We got worse by trading Huet that year.

Gainey is paid to make decisions, and his success or failures are based on those decisions.

The Huet deal was a mistake, I don't see how it can be argued now. He traded Huet for a 2nd round pick that he turned into Lang and we flopped this year. He sacrificed last year's security for this year's possibility and it came up snake eyes. You could call it bad luck or whatever, but it was a failure.
How was Huet our ''security'' exactly??..
In fact, he was so secure that he couldn't win the #1 Spot over a rookie.
Lang was far from a flop. Gainey couldn't have predicted all our key players were going to be injured this year and the rest be on a cold streak. That's why we flopped, not because of poor GM decisions.
In 3years with the same core of players, Carbo wasn't able to establish a well structured system. The only identity he gave us, was a PP Specialist one and to me, that's not a structure.

Now what happened off ice, we don't know the truth. But there seems to have been a lot of negligence towards surrounding the young players.

I persist to think had we kept Huet, it wouldn't have changed much. His performance with WSH wasn't particularly good and there's no way to really know how he'd have done with us.

You talk about Huet as if he was our key to success, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Also, I'm 100% sure that if Gainey could have gotten a serviceable player for Huet then he'd have done that deal.
You think he chose then 2nd rounder over a good player on D or O??..
Bryzgalov earlier in the year was placed on waivers. I don't know if you realize how bad the goalie market was if that happened. Can you name me the teams that were possibly interested in an UFA goalie around deadline.

I think people are just way too critical.
Every GM makes mistakes. But some people dare to say our team hasn't gotten better under Gainey's reign.

Bottom line is, Price was our #1, we were losing Huet, so he traded him. If it weren't for Price, we lose that first round to Boston. Unfortunately he collapsed vs Philly.
Huet, also had a disappointing PO against Philly and put up bad numbers, which is a key reason why they weren't going to resign him there especially at that price.

The Mistake Gainey did, was not bring in a veteran goalie this year. I don't think trading Huet was really a mistake, I think it wouldn't have changed anything.

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Old
04-23-2009, 02:20 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Lang was far from a flop. Gainey couldn't have predicted all our key players were going to be injured this year and the rest be on a cold streak. That's why we flopped, not because of poor GM decisions.
In 3years with the same core of players, Carbo wasn't able to establish a well structured system. The only identity he gave us, was a PP Specialist one and to me, that's not a structure.

The Mistake Gainey did, was not bring in a veteran goalie this year. I don't think trading Huet was really a mistake, I think it wouldn't have changed anything.
As I mentioned before, I didn't think that the Huet trade was a bad one originally, but I do now - and it's not because of hindsight, it's because Gainey made our team weaker going into the playoffs in order to strengthen our team in the off-season. One way or another, this season was a flop. He threw last year out the window.

Trading Huet made us weaker last year, I don't see how anybody can argue that.

And you make a great point about Carbo not having a system - Gainey hired him.

I'm a Gainey supporter - might be hard to believe, but I'm thinking objectively. The Huet deal made us weaker last year, and our coaching from top to bottom stinks.

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Old
04-23-2009, 02:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Oh yeah Huet, you mean the guy who became Washinton's #1 goalie and then let in a bunch of weak goals against Philly in their round 1 series loss?

Yeah he woulda saved everything, no decline and fall from those moves.

Then the habs coulda matched that 4 year 5.5 million offer he got from Chicago, only to become their multimillionaire backup goalie due to his weak play.

Glad we have a genius like you "kovaless" as GM, a guy who knows all the facts and makes the right calls.
well, thanks for the vote of confidence. Even though I never attacked you. I can respect your opinion. As I know of course, you have all the facts and make all the right calls.

My opinion stands. And to clarify, I believe that Gainey was trying to get another vet goalie in a deal, but it fell through. He was left with with his di*k hanging out in the end. Whether it was Huet or another goalie, I believe that Price was not suppose to be the #1 goalie in the playoffs last year.

I'm not saying that Price is never going to be a #1 goalie. i'm saying it happened too soon.

Thanks for contributing your opinion though.

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04-23-2009, 02:26 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How was Huet our ''security'' exactly??..
In fact, he was so secure that he couldn't win the #1 Spot over a rookie.
Lang was far from a flop. Gainey couldn't have predicted all our key players were going to be injured this year and the rest be on a cold streak. That's why we flopped, not because of poor GM decisions.
In 3years with the same core of players, Carbo wasn't able to establish a well structured system. The only identity he gave us, was a PP Specialist one and to me, that's not a structure.

Now what happened off ice, we don't know the truth. But there seems to have been a lot of negligence towards surrounding the young players.

I persist to think had we kept Huet, it wouldn't have changed much. His performance with WSH wasn't particularly good and there's no way to really know how he'd have done with us.

You talk about Huet as if he was our key to success, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Also, I'm 100% sure that if Gainey could have gotten a serviceable player for Huet then he'd have done that deal.
You think he chose then 2nd rounder over a good player on D or O??..
Bryzgalov earlier in the year was placed on waivers. I don't know if you realize how bad the goalie market was if that happened. Can you name me the teams that were possibly interested in an UFA goalie around deadline.

I think people are just way too critical.
Every GM makes mistakes. But some people dare to say our team hasn't gotten better under Gainey's reign.

Bottom line is, Price was our #1, we were losing Huet, so he traded him. If it weren't for Price, we lose that first round to Boston. Unfortunately he collapsed vs Philly.
Huet, also had a disappointing PO against Philly and put up bad numbers, which is a key reason why they weren't going to resign him there especially at that price.

The Mistake Gainey did, was not bring in a veteran goalie this year. I don't think trading Huet was really a mistake, I think it wouldn't have changed anything.
You're right, Price needs a veteran backup. If they kept Huet that year chances are he would have played in the playoffs. And it's really impossible to say if he would have been better or not. But whether it was good for Price is another question, and right now it doesn't look like it was.

Huet was security for him in that they were very close and he was essentially Price's mentor. I don't know if you read the stuff that Price was saying about Huet before they played against Chicago. Further, it sent the wrong kind of message to the team - this is a year where they finish #1, are firing on all cylinders, and the GM doesn't acquire any supporting players at the deadline, but rather trades away the veteran goalie?

On another note, I noticed that you believe that coaching was a problem. I agree to some extent, but who handpicked Carbonneau and kept him around for several seasons, system or no system?

I don't think Gainey's been a bad GM, or that he hasn't made a positive impact on the team. I want him to stay so that he can accomplish what he plans to do this offseason with all these UFAs and cap flexibility.

But he's not perfect as so many like to say. He has not acquired the impact player he has been trying to get for pretty much his entire term as GM, and I think the handling of Price is another mistake. Throwing him to the wolves in Montreal, with the city's media focused on him, the pressure being built up by the team's marketing, a fellow young goalie as backup who was pushing him for the starting job, it was all just a recipe for disaster.

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Old
04-23-2009, 02:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How was Huet our ''security'' exactly??..
In fact, he was so secure that he couldn't win the #1 Spot over a rookie.
The Mistake Gainey did, was not bring in a veteran goalie this year. I don't think trading Huet was really a mistake, I think it wouldn't have changed anything.
Thing is since we cannot play the hindsight card, you cannot use Huet's record in the playoffs. I mean 'cause even if you would do it, well defensively we were a better squad than the Caps one was so who knows what would have happened. I saw almost all the games in their entirety against Philly, and despite 2 brutal games, he played some great ones as well getting a couple of stars in there as well.

As far as not winning a spot over a rookie, well we can surely say that it has nothing to do with performance, Halak saved us and still didn't get Gainey's favor. The mistake without the hindsight factor was still to understand that a rookie, as good as he has played with his junior team, or at the Worlds or in the AHL for 20ish games, was still not ready to take that pressure. At the very least, you still have to be unsure even if you send him first. And clearly, Price had a great relationship with Price and would have been welcome even if it was as a reassuring presence.

I just don't see the correletion between keeping Souray 'cause we are in the middle of a great race and letting Huet go. I just believe that he was blinded by his love towards Carey. And clearly he still showed this year that he was blinded once again. He talks about the importance of getting some experience. I talk about the importance in winning. Last year could have been our year and if everything would have been done in order to have the best team possible last year, chances are we at least reach the conference final. And it would have been an ideal year to do that 'cause as of now, it looks a lot like a semi-rebuild year next year. So last year you would have gone for it, this year would have been another year to try it out again, and this upcoming year would have been a rebuild year that would have taken correctly since you would have done great if not 1 year ago, maybe 2 years ago. Now you have a 2nd round, a 1st round and a big question mark. And espeically in a world when you can build a team with UFA's.....

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04-23-2009, 02:33 PM
  #66
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Nothing wrong with your other points, those are your opinions...but this one is just wrong. They were only together for the last 10 games of the season, and the majority of their destruction came against the Leafs, Islanders, Lightning and Thrashers. When they played against good teams, they were shut down rather easily.

And it's obvious now that Gainey was giving Tanguay sheltered minutes. Putting him on the first line would have put him up against Chara, and he would have been even more ineffective than he was. Instead Laraque was the one taking all the punishment from Chara on that line. This is what so many people don't understand about that whole "omg Laraque on the first line" stuff.
I stand corrected. Not 20 games. 10 games is right. I still think the chemistry was there. They produced points. They were on fire. Maybe against soft teams, but nothing worked for 70+ games this seasson.

Perhaps Tanguay was playing hurt for the first game 1 & 2, and that's why the lines were changed. Or, he could have just been re-injured in game 2. I'm not sure. If the doctors cleared Tanguay, and he said he was ready, I would have at least tried the same combination for a few periods to see what could happen.

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04-23-2009, 02:35 PM
  #67
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My opinion stands. And to clarify, I believe that Gainey was trying to get another vet goalie in a deal, but it fell through. He was left with with his di*k hanging out in the end. Whether it was Huet or another goalie, I believe that Price was not suppose to be the #1 goalie in the playoffs last year.
Hmm, no, if anything there was the rumour that he was getting Hedberg in the Hossa deal but there wasn't really any #1 goalie available at the time.. Other than Huet, so no, I'm 100% sure that Price was the guy he wanted to start last year in the playoffs.. Your point doesn't make sense, we had a VERY good season, Gainey trades Huet because Price is taking over... But then he wanted to get another goalie to start for his team in the playoffs ? Doesn't make any sense in pro sports and Gainey isn't the type of guy that would do this

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04-23-2009, 02:40 PM
  #68
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Hmm, no, if anything there was the rumour that he was getting Hedberg in the Hossa deal but there wasn't really any #1 goalie available at the time.. Other than Huet, so no, I'm 100% sure that Price was the guy he wanted to start last year in the playoffs.. Your point doesn't make sense, we had a VERY good season, Gainey trades Huet because Price is taking over... But then he wanted to get another goalie to start for his team in the playoffs ? Doesn't make any sense in pro sports and Gainey isn't the type of guy that would do this
Yes, we had a very good season last year. I do not think that putting in a rookie goalie for the playoffs was a smart decision. Perhaps not aquiring a # 1 goalie was his goal, but aquiring a vet goalie might have been.


Everyone shell-shocked when Huet was traded ? I believe that Carbo and Gainey did not see eye - to - eye about whether Price was ready or not.

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04-23-2009, 02:43 PM
  #69
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if he goes, what ill miss the most is :

gainey

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04-23-2009, 02:46 PM
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I think that Bob Gainey is one of the top general managers in the NHL, this was a bad year for him and the Habs, but one year does not make a career. Alot of bad things happened this year which were beyond his control, I constantly read about the so called failure of his 5 year plan, I laugh out loud at the posts which condemn the man and want to see him gone, when he took this team it was in shambles, since he has been here he has definitely turned things in the right direction. As far as him saying he had a 5 year plan, im sure alot of parts of that plan were a sucess, some failed, our draft record has certainly gotten better with lots of great young talent on the way and alot of the hard player decisions he has made might have alot to do with the behind the scenes happenings that we as fans do not know much about. We are passionate about our team and we want to win and we often cannot accept why certain decisions are made and we often forget that Bob Gainey is just an employee of George Gillette and ultimately makes hard decisions based on what his boss tells him, it is a constant juggling act, trying to ice a competitive team but yet trying to please ownership and then having to bear the brunt of abuse from the mediots and fans when things go wrong. Im sure the very reason we have so many UFAs is because of the pending sale of the Habs and Gainey not wanting to commit salary until knowing what the new ownership will be and the direction going forward for the habs. Bob Gainey has the hardest gm job in hockey, running the most storied franchise inthe NHL in a pre-dominantly French province and under the scrutiny of the toughest hockey media in North America . I hope he does not leave, it will be a great loss for the Canadiens and one which I fear will cause this team to regress for more years to come. Happy 100th Habs..

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Old
04-23-2009, 02:51 PM
  #71
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if he goes, what ill miss the most is :

gainey
Not really cause in the next couple of years we might realize even more mistakes done with players not being signed or draft picks

Is CBC streaming it?

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04-23-2009, 02:54 PM
  #72
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Gainey needs to change the roster. It's obvious what the problems are with this team. Hamrlik needs to go. He has aged a lot. My gosh, he was brutal. I can't believe the guy is getting $5.5 million. Who will take him though? Put him on waivers if a young defenceman outperforms him. Plekanec also needs to go-he is too soft and small for the playoffs. He's not good enough for the top 6 (in the playoffs) and he can't be a 3rd-line centre because he's not gritty enough. Personally, the 3rd-line centre should be a defensive forward, a shut-down one. So where does he fit in? Guys like Higgins can be packaged to get someone else. Although Higgins was the only noticeable forward in the playoffs so that is a testament to his character. Gainey can't keep relying on veteran forwards and defenceman to get them far, he needs to focus on developing/maximizing his young players' potentials so that they can carry this team-aka the Kostitsyns, MaxPac, Weber and Maxwell.

And honestly, he needs to stop drafting too many soft, finesse forwards. Look at Washington, they are having the same problem as the Habs because they have the same philosphy-questionable defence, all offence and a lot of finesse. Perimeter play and cute passes. Don't bring the Detroit argument because Detroit actually has big, gritty European players!! AND...stop drafting so many American players! They most likely want to live back in the USA when they reach free agency anyway.

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Old
04-23-2009, 02:59 PM
  #73
Whitesnake
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From RIS, seems that Price will not meet the press today.

Honest opinion, I think he should have met the press in order to put that year to rest and finally move on. Now there will be more speculations.....

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Old
04-23-2009, 03:00 PM
  #74
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
if he goes, what ill miss the most is :

gainey
I don't believe he will. Not with the job that needs to be done. I honestly don't believe that it will be spectacular, just like all the other post-season press conference I've seen.

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Old
04-23-2009, 03:02 PM
  #75
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Guys the Huet trade was not a hockey decision, trust me

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