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20/20 hindsight

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Old
04-24-2009, 10:05 AM
  #1
habfaninvictoria
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20/20 hindsight

It's always easier to judge how good and bad decisions with 20/20 hindsight.
I've seen more than a few posts on here about how stupid Gainey was for his off-season moves. In reality though, most agreed Ryder wasn't worth keeping, and that Streit was not worth the money he was going to demand. There was much rejoicing in the signings of BGL, Tanguay and Lang. Most experts had us winning the east and cruising to the final. Everything was rosy.

To say now that we shouldn't have let Ryder and Streit go is easy, but the reality was Ryder wasn't going to succeed here. He was getting moved aside for younger players. Streit would have been good to have again, but the price tag was too much.

Fast Forward to this year. Many don't want the Kosty Bros, Pleks, or Komi Back. I'll say right now that if we let AKost go, he'll make the LeClair, Ryder, Ribiero moves look like genius plays. He's the real deal and I think the crap from the season really effected him. Be careful what we wish for, it could happen.

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04-24-2009, 11:05 AM
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You say "Streit wasn't worth the money he was going to demand".

But he wanted to re-sign during the season last year for $2.5M/year over 3 years. Thats a freaking steal and Gainey never even replied to or countered Streit's offer. He made zero attempt to negotiate with Streit. Gainey has already admitted to his mistake in regards to this. To bad he had to learn the hard way just how valuable a big point shot is to the pp.

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04-24-2009, 11:20 AM
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LesHabsRock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
It's always easier to judge how good and bad decisions with 20/20 hindsight.
I've seen more than a few posts on here about how stupid Gainey was for his off-season moves. In reality though, most agreed Ryder wasn't worth keeping, and that Streit was not worth the money he was going to demand. There was much rejoicing in the signings of BGL, Tanguay and Lang. Most experts had us winning the east and cruising to the final. Everything was rosy.

To say now that we shouldn't have let Ryder and Streit go is easy, but the reality was Ryder wasn't going to succeed here. He was getting moved aside for younger players. Streit would have been good to have again, but the price tag was too much.

Fast Forward to this year. Many don't want the Kosty Bros, Pleks, or Komi Back. I'll say right now that if we let AKost go, he'll make the LeClair, Ryder, Ribiero moves look like genius plays. He's the real deal and I think the crap from the season really effected him. Be careful what we wish for, it could happen.
Lang and Tanguay were both having more productive seasons than Streit and Ryder and would have had they not been injured. Lang was on pace for 30 goals and about 70 points. Tanguay was on pace for about 25 goals and 70 points. They were great acquisitions. Who could have predicted all free agent signings would have been out with injury. Just bad luck. Including Schneider. Add Markov and a coiple of depth defensemen to the mix and how can we expect to win.

I'm confident that with Markov, Schneider, Lang, and Tanguay in the lineup we can beat any team including Boston.

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:21 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
You say "Streit wasn't worth the money he was going to demand".

But he wanted to re-sign during the season last year for $2.5M/year over 3 years. Thats a freaking steal and Gainey never even replied to or countered Streit's offer. He made zero attempt to negotiate with Streit. Gainey has already admitted to his mistake in regards to this. To bad he had to learn the hard way just how valuable a big point shot is to the pp.
That's just a rumor....I dont believe it to be true

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:30 AM
  #5
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
It's always easier to judge how good and bad decisions with 20/20 hindsight.
I've seen more than a few posts on here about how stupid Gainey was for his off-season moves. In reality though, most agreed Ryder wasn't worth keeping, and that Streit was not worth the money he was going to demand. There was much rejoicing in the signings of BGL, Tanguay and Lang. Most experts had us winning the east and cruising to the final. Everything was rosy.

To say now that we shouldn't have let Ryder and Streit go is easy, but the reality was Ryder wasn't going to succeed here. He was getting moved aside for younger players. Streit would have been good to have again, but the price tag was too much.

Fast Forward to this year. Many don't want the Kosty Bros, Pleks, or Komi Back. I'll say right now that if we let AKost go, he'll make the LeClair, Ryder, Ribiero moves look like genius plays. He's the real deal and I think the crap from the season really effected him. Be careful what we wish for, it could happen.
Point of it is that how the heck do you analyze somebody's work if you are not allowed to review it and acknowledge the results. Sure, if you don't want to blame Gainey for letting Ryder go, so be it. But I would totally blame Gainey for giving Ryder 1-year contracts year after year despite his great offensive seasons. If that's not a sign of not having confidence, I don't know what is. And everybody knows that confidence is a big part of how somebody plays. As far as Streit goes, well you might believe or not the "rumor" that he would have accepted a 2.5 million for 3 years IF the Habs would have made him a d-man, thing is if true, Streit was never as bad as people here thought he was. Like Souray was never as bad as his Spezza highlight reels was showing. Gainey bet that O'Byrne was ready as the #4 and miscalculated. O'Byrne never played a single season in the NHL and then he was suppose to be ready for a #4 job?

As far as Kost, Pleks and so on, I agree. Anyway, the value of a average looking Kosty is better with us than for whatever assets we could get through a trade. Though, if a trade can be made and that we could actually get something great ni return, it might not matter as much as the Ribeiro trade did. I'm not ready to let him go, but it's all about who you get in return. But both Kostys will have to some some freakin maturity and get their act together and show some work ethic. 'Cause even if they are traded and don't show that, they won't succeed.

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Djee#9 View Post
That's just a rumor....I dont believe it to be true
As far as i know it has been confirmed by both Streit and his agent.

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04-24-2009, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Djee#9 View Post
That's just a rumor....I dont believe it to be true
So if I tell you that the rumor is that he never was offered a contract, you'll believe me but if I say that he was, you won't? How's that? 'Cause it makes Gainey not look that great?

It's not that hard to believe it. Both Carbonneau and Gainey never believed in him as a d-man. Clearly with Gainey's thought of O'Byrne being ready, both him and Carbo didn't beleive in Streit. So if Streit comes to you and say that I'll sign but I want to play on D, well you don't accept the player's offer. My point is to say how both Carbo and Gainey were wrong, and it's not hindsight 'cause at the time I didn't agree with most people that he was sucking so hard. I remember thinking he might never be top 4, but in the bottom pairing and as a PP specialist, he was too damn important.

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
It's always easier to judge how good and bad decisions with 20/20 hindsight.
I've seen more than a few posts on here about how stupid Gainey was for his off-season moves. In reality though, most agreed Ryder wasn't worth keeping, and that Streit was not worth the money he was going to demand. There was much rejoicing in the signings of BGL, Tanguay and Lang. Most experts had us winning the east and cruising to the final. Everything was rosy.

To say now that we shouldn't have let Ryder and Streit go is easy, but the reality was Ryder wasn't going to succeed here. He was getting moved aside for younger players. Streit would have been good to have again, but the price tag was too much.

Fast Forward to this year. Many don't want the Kosty Bros, Pleks, or Komi Back. I'll say right now that if we let AKost go, he'll make the LeClair, Ryder, Ribiero moves look like genius plays. He's the real deal and I think the crap from the season really effected him. Be careful what we wish for, it could happen.

bottom line is Ryder and Streit wouldn`t of made a difference at all.

The injuries maybe cost us one game , but we aren`t in Boston`s league . Streit played like crap in the playoffs , just like Brian Campbell is not built for the playoffs.

Both had to go along with Ribiero , they werent going to help the habs in the future.

Remember if Streit plays Weber doesnt get 2 points in one game. If Ryder was here
anyone of Lang, Pacioretty , Tanguay, or Dagostini wouldnt be on our roster .

we need serious core changes , our support staff is fine . We cant compete with Lang,koivu,Kosty,Higgins, Pleks, as core players.

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:46 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Point of it is that how the heck do you analyze somebody's work if you are not allowed to review it and acknowledge the results. Sure, if you don't want to blame Gainey for letting Ryder go, so be it. But I would totally blame Gainey for giving Ryder 1-year contracts year after year despite his great offensive seasons. If that's not a sign of not having confidence, I don't know what is. And everybody knows that confidence is a big part of how somebody plays. As far as Streit goes, well you might believe or not the "rumor" that he would have accepted a 2.5 million for 3 years IF the Habs would have made him a d-man, thing is if true, Streit was never as bad as people here thought he was. Like Souray was never as bad as his Spezza highlight reels was showing. Gainey bet that O'Byrne was ready as the #4 and miscalculated. O'Byrne never played a single season in the NHL and then he was suppose to be ready for a #4 job?

As far as Kost, Pleks and so on, I agree. Anyway, the value of a average looking Kosty is better with us than for whatever assets we could get through a trade. Though, if a trade can be made and that we could actually get something great ni return, it might not matter as much as the Ribeiro trade did. I'm not ready to let him go, but it's all about who you get in return. But both Kostys will have to some some freakin maturity and get their act together and show some work ethic. 'Cause even if they are traded and don't show that, they won't succeed.
I agree with you Whitesnake - to SOME degree, GM's are rated on the reality of a situation after the fact. EVERY GM has to deal with players that get away, etc, and I'm sure there are good players that are let go from every team at one time or another.

But as a GM, you make tough decisions to let players go, acquire players, sign players to contracts, hire/fire coaches, etc but ultimately your rating of success or failure is what happens on the ice.

Gainey has done some good things, but he has also done some bad things. Overall I think he has mostly been positive, and there isn't anybody out there today that I think can do a better job with all things considered. But there is no reason we can't question a GM's decision-making after the fact - no reason at all.

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Old
04-24-2009, 11:55 AM
  #10
BadHabit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Lang and Tanguay were both having more productive seasons than Streit and Ryder and would have had they not been injured. Lang was on pace for 30 goals and about 70 points. Tanguay was on pace for about 25 goals and 70 points. They were great acquisitions. Who could have predicted all free agent signings would have been out with injury. Just bad luck. Including Schneider. Add Markov and a coiple of depth defensemen to the mix and how can we expect to win.

I'm confident that with Markov, Schneider, Lang, and Tanguay in the lineup we can beat any team including Boston.
Ummm, just so you know... "on pace" means nothing. Pure speculation on your part and you cannot base an argument using "on pace" numbers.

I could speculate that with the downfall of the Kostitsyn's and injuries this year, that Ryder and Streit would've been a God-send to have.

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Old
04-24-2009, 12:01 PM
  #11
LesHabsRock
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Ummm, just so you know... "on pace" means nothing. Pure speculation on your part and you cannot base an argument using "on pace" numbers.

I could speculate that with the downfall of the Kostitsyn's and injuries this year, that Ryder and Streit would've been a God-send to have.
Whoa there. It still doesn't take away the fact both players were having great seasons and their point production was very impressive. By the same token you shouldn't downplay their production. Lang had 18 goals and 39 points in 50 games. Tanguay had 16 goals and 41 points in 50 games. Their points per game ratio was better than Kovalev's. Also, Lang was responsible for A. Kostitsyn's production and once Lang was injured Kost. production went south. Lang was a big right handed centre that we lacked and was putting up much better numbers than Sundin was in Vancouver. With Lang, our depth chart and strength at centre looked very good. Without him the entire makeup of the team down the middle changed.

Ever since Lang's injury our team began the downward spiral. No one truly understands the value of Lang to this team.

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