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Did the Canadiens make a mistake with Carey Price?

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Old
04-25-2009, 05:01 PM
  #51
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Like Huet and Theodore are such great goalies. Don't be so naive, Price will only get better if he plays.

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04-25-2009, 05:29 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
I strongly disagreed with the four panelists who thought Price was a better goalie now than he was when he came to Montreal two seasons ago. Dubé was bang on for everything, until he concured that Price was better now.
To me, those comments was more about protecting Melanson than saying the truth about Price. No way is Price a better goalie. First, everybody said that they had no idea what he looked when he was in Tri-City. Then, I would really like to know how many of those guys saw him at the Worlds but moreso during the Calder Cup. Probably not a whole lot of games. But then, and it's only my opinion, I do not remember to have seen him, even during his first games in Montreal, how much he was overcommitting on some shots. I'm sorry but he can't have progressed in that department. If so, it would have mean playing worst than Aebisher 'cause the kid overcommits in tons of shots. Then the play around the net is not better by all means. He doesn't read the plays correctly and haven't made a iota of improvement there. The mental toughness part, well clearly, there's nothing that has improved there.

But then how about asking the real questions? Maybe he was never that tough after all? Maybe he was never that great around his net? I mean, he didn't have the greatest of teams in Juniors so he had no expectations playing with Tri-City. As far as the World Juniors, well he played great, the team and the defense in front of him was just as strong or maybe a little inferior to the team that Pogge had in front of him (and please remember how people here never give the credit to Pogge 'cause of the team he had). And then, The Calder Cup, another small "tournament" who the adrenaline kicks in. Again, the pressure of doing great for a strong Hamilton team, the pressure of taking the #1 goalie spot, okay so we could say that this is a real example of how great mentally he can very well be....but is that enough? And how can you compare this to a whole season?

So either he didn't improve a whole lot, either he never started as "strong" as they sold him to us. He has clear qualities that should make him a great goalie. Nice size, great positional play but reflexes still needs to improve though I think we saw against Pittsburgh what the kid can do when he's ready.

As far as Melanson's work though, I still believe that he's overrated. People give him the credit for the goalie that played here, while disregarding the fact that those goalies had become better BEFORE playing with the Habs. Look at Huet's last season with the Kings, look at Hackett's season with the Hawks.....But then once you can say that Melanson's work really should have started to pay off, look at how people had less and less confidence in Huet, look at how Theo lost his confidence and his game, look at how Aebisher looked on the ice and so on.....I just love how people won continuously defend Melanson keeps bringing how our goalies are supposed to have evolve once they came here but forget to mention how they decline before they left....

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Old
04-25-2009, 05:53 PM
  #53
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No...

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Old
04-25-2009, 05:57 PM
  #54
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It doesn't matter if a young player is a gem or not, he has to work hard to deserve to have his spot on the team. Yet Bob has treated Price like he was the golden boy from the very beginning. And it has not helped him.

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04-25-2009, 06:42 PM
  #55
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The Canadiens made three mistakes with Price:
  1. They didn't surround him properly. They should have let him stay at someone's house like Lemieux did with Crosby. Show him how to become a professional at such a young age.
  2. They allowed Roland Melanson to change Price's style from hybrid to butterfly. They can still fix this but they need to do it now!
  3. They didn't get a veteran goaltender to help him this year. Olaf Kolzig would have been the perfect candidate, knowing the ropes and the shooters in the East, and knowing Price on a personal level.

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04-25-2009, 07:27 PM
  #56
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Oh my God. Habs made mistakes with Price.
It's over for him, he is finished as an NHL goalie, he will never get any better and will turn to drugs and crime and become the next hockey mask toteing axe murderer, with Sergi as his pimp and Andre as his pusher, oh yea it's all GAINEY'S fault. Yes it's all Gainey's fault, we don't have a parade this year, no 25th cup, no good players, no good coaches, no good fans, no good province, no good stock market. Lets see what else we can pile up on the I HATE EVERYTHING BANDWAGON

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Old
04-25-2009, 07:31 PM
  #57
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Too early to tell.

But they did made a mistake in drafting Andrei Kostitsyn ahead of players like Carter and Getzlaf.

Getzlaf is playing big against San Jose right now.

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Old
04-25-2009, 07:41 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
The Canadiens made three mistakes with Price:
  1. They didn't surround him properly. They should have let him stay at someone's house like Lemieux did with Crosby. Show him how to become a professional at such a young age.
  2. They allowed Roland Melanson to change Price's style from hybrid to butterfly. They can still fix this but they need to do it now!
  3. They didn't get a veteran goaltender to help him this year. Olaf Kolzig would have been the perfect candidate, knowing the ropes and the shooters in the East, and knowing Price on a personal level.
and sadly, all those things were plain common sense.

Next would of been actually icing a good defense in front of him.

I do think Price will great one day but I do not think the Canadiens put him in the best position to succeed. And frankly this goes beyond Price too, which may explain why Montreal can't develop a star player like basically every other team.

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Old
04-25-2009, 07:48 PM
  #59
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21!!!!!!!!!
Price is 21. Goalies normally improve for years after hitting the league. They may need to move Melanson down the ladder (let him work with 18 year olds and keep him away from the goalies who make it to the NHL), but he still has plenty of chances to make it.

Price was OK in the Tri-Cities on a crap team, he was stellar on the Candian world junior team that was probably top 3 in the tournament, but not the top team without him. He was incredible in the Calder Cup with a Hamilton team that had no business being there.

Considering Price was just fine before his injury, and mediocre after his injury you have to hope that next year he will be OK physically. Price has always been strong mentally, and almost never had consecutive bad games until this year's all star game. He came back early to play in the all-star game, obviously wasn't healthy, and had confidence issues. If, and it is a fairly big if, he gets healthy over the summer he should be fine next year, and a star by the time he is 26 or 27.

Definitely not time to panic yet.

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Old
04-25-2009, 07:48 PM
  #60
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you need to be realistic and realize that whether it was halak or price, it would not have a made a damn difference. There was no DEFENSE in front of him. When you get 3 breakaways against in one period, that should be enough to realize that the defense is to blame, whether price lets in those breakaway goals or not. He had a great season last year. He crumbled in the playoffs but it was understandable, it was his first. He had an incredible first half this year, but came back to quickly to go to the all-star game and lost all confidence from then on. He was back to playing good at the end of the season but theres nothing he can do when the team is missing 3 starting defenseman, including its number 1, and the rest are playing badly as they have ever been. Did you watch the playoffs and the last games before the playoffs? I think not.....because there was nothing in front of him. When you get outchanced mightily every game, goals are gonna go in, especially against the number 1 team in the east. Halak had a one week stretch where he was great but came back to earth afterwards. He would not have made a damn difference. The team could not score goals, was letting boston come in close to the net with their chances, was getting outchanced by an incredible margin, could not contain the cycle that boston could do at will and could not muster anything on the power play. Add to that that they kept letting the boston players get into the slot on the pk and let chara shoot as much as he wanted and there you go...price NOR halak would have made a ****ing difference. Its not the ****ing goalie, its the players and the system in front of the goalie.

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Old
04-25-2009, 07:57 PM
  #61
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Dubé is absolutely right when he talks about how the Canadiens made tons of mistakes with Carey Price.

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04-25-2009, 08:03 PM
  #62
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hes right about that though, the habs made mistakes with him but did not make a mistake picking him though, but with his talent lvl, its not too late and he can overcome that

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Old
04-25-2009, 08:13 PM
  #63
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how many times do we have to revisit this subject....
What he said

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Old
04-25-2009, 08:14 PM
  #64
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The only mistake Montreal has made is giving Price too much unearned responsibility.

The gang calling for Melanson's head and an older mentor type backup have missed the boat. Price is either good or he's not, can handle it or not, is hard working or not, is mature or not.

Right now he's not.

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04-25-2009, 08:56 PM
  #65
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Melanson should be the first fired by Gainey. He's ruining every goalies he got in Montreal and he spitted on the fans days ago with his BS comments.

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04-25-2009, 09:03 PM
  #66
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all this leaving him alone in the city and stuff, you would expect more from a guy with such humble roots. Seems he only became a party guy (if you want to call him that) after being here. Last I checked, even when theo was not fully a star and while he was he was 10 ties the party boy.

Gainey's philosophy is like this (keep in mind he referred to him as a thoroughbred):
through Price into the fire
if he burns for a while, so be it....
eventually he will rise from the ashes as the puck-stopping machine he was meant to be.

this year didn't go "as expected", but I have no doubt that we're on our way to a great place with Carey. It seems hard to see it now, but we will get there eventually. I'm glad Gainey is showing him that he has full confidence in him. To say he doesn't have a mentor, I think in his case, that is Bob.

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04-25-2009, 09:09 PM
  #67
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... and now that the Price-haters have had their say, it's time to shift to Melanson-hating.

I love the Habs fans. I'm kept on the edge of my seat, wondering 'who's next!'!!

With fans like this, who needs enemies.

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04-25-2009, 10:14 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
and sadly, all those things were plain common sense.

Next would of been actually icing a good defense in front of him.

I do think Price will great one day but I do not think the Canadiens put him in the best position to succeed. And frankly this goes beyond Price too, which may explain why Montreal can't develop a star player like basically every other team.
Good point about the defense and/or the team defense. You can't keep on relying on your goalie to face 35-40 shots a game and many of them being scoring chances from the slot, not counting the giveaways...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viau View Post
Melanson should be the first fired by Gainey. He's ruining every goalies he got in Montreal and he spitted on the fans days ago with his BS comments.
I've been saying for quite some time that Melanson is a big part of the problem (see the thread on that subject), but I think that you're pushing hard in saying that he's ruining every goalie. He is able to teach the butterfly style quite well and is able to bring his goalies to a certain level. Unfortunately, they all have the same flaws: down on their knees too soon, trying to anticipate too much instead of reacting to the play, getting beat up high on a regular basis, lateral movement on their knees instead of on their feet, playing too deep in their net... and mostly, not being able to work with the hybrid style and turning Price into a butterfly because that's what Melanson can teach.

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04-26-2009, 09:21 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Unfortunately, they all have the same flaws: down on their knees too soon, trying to anticipate too much instead of reacting to the play, getting beat up high on a regular basis, lateral movement on their knees instead of on their feet, playing too deep in their net... and mostly, not being able to work with the hybrid style and turning Price into a butterfly because that's what Melanson can teach.
That's what I call ruining.

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04-26-2009, 09:31 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by BulldogFever View Post
Like Huet and Theodore are such great goalies. Don't be so naive, Price will only get better if he plays.
The kid must play. But he could have done so... in Hamilton last year.

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Old
04-26-2009, 09:33 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
... and now that the Price-haters have had their say, it's time to shift to Melanson-hating.

I love the Habs fans. I'm kept on the edge of my seat, wondering 'who's next!'!!

With fans like this, who needs enemies.
It is not a matter of HATING. It is a matter of saying things as they are right now, even if he is talented, and MIGHT become a real star player.

No one HATES Price.

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Old
04-26-2009, 09:35 AM
  #72
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Your grammar is incorrect. I shouldn't say anything considering mine is horrid at times as well but it should be "make a mistake not "made"
We didn't hear Dube say anything when Price was on fire last year and the beginning of this year when he was good enough to be the starting goalie at the All Star Game did we?? No, we didn't and it's because all these reporters have to stroke their ego's and maintain they know more about hockey then anyone else so they don't make the important decisions until waaay after the fact at which point they jump all over it and criticize the decision saying they would never have made it. Well no kidding, they don't offer an opinion until after the fact so they can never be wrong.
Just once I'd LOVE for a reporter to make a call at the time it happens and own it to it when they are ultimately proven wrong. Let's see how many of them are experts and can preach from their perches then! Until then, almost every "reporter" in Montreal is a vulture waiting to pick at the bones of a dead carcass.
Carey Price has 2 years of NHL experience under his belt and has seen the highs of finishing first and the lows of being swept. He is much better equipped now to handle the pressure then he would had he been in the AHL last year and broke into the NHL this year. Not to mention Huet would have had to be signed for another 4 or 5 years which would have only dragged out Price’s development. Gainey made a judgment call and up until the time Price got injured before the ASG he was bang on but for whatever reason the ASG killed his confidence and he couldn’t rebound. Bottom line is they have a softmore jinx for a reason and we’ve seen it time and time again. My advise, relax and see how Price does next year because he is still ubber talented and can be one of the best goalies in the game, just have some faith.

Nice post, however, I do not think that the ASG killed his confidence, I believe that rushing back from an injury reduced his effectiveness, which in turn hurt his confidence. Just when Price had seemed to turn the corner, he got sick and missed some time. When he returned to the lineup, it took him some time to get even close to his form prior to the illness. It seems to me that Carey Price is a guy who does need to play on a regular basis to be at his best.

I do not want this to come across as bashing Jaroslav Halak, since I do like him as a goaltender, however, where were all of the Jaro lovers back in January? Remember when the Canadiens were winning games because the were scoring a lot of goals, not because a lot of goals were being prevented? It seemed back then that Jaroslav Halak could not handle the responsibility of being a #1 goaltender.

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Old
04-26-2009, 09:37 AM
  #73
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i wonder how many times this subject will come up from now until october.

it has already been discused about 500 time since last years playoffs, so i gonna start taking a tally

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Old
04-26-2009, 10:02 AM
  #74
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The problem with the question, as asked, is that it is far too early to have a definitive answer. Perhaps in five or so years, we'll know for sure, by looking back. There is no question that his play, especially in the second half of this year was, regardless of what the fanboi's say, was subpar(in terms of a-list goalies). Perhaps, at some point in the future, he will actually reach the potential we believe he has...or perhaps he never will....only time will answer that question...

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04-26-2009, 10:05 AM
  #75
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The problem with the question, as asked, is that it is far too early to have a definitive answer. Perhaps in five or so years, we'll know for sure, by looking back. There is no question that his play, especially in the second half of this year was, regardless of what the fanboi's say, was subpar(in therms of a-list goalies). Perhaps, at some point in the future, he will actually reach the potential we believe he has...or perhaps he never will....only time will answer that question...
While I certainly don't disagree with your point, it is still time to rectify the situation. It's not too late to get him a more suitable goalie coach who will work in bringing him back to his natural style, the hybrid. It's not too late to move him with a solid veteran to teach him the off-ice ways to be a professional hockey player, and it's certainly not too late to get him a veteran back up to teach him the shooters and the preparation for a game at this level.

If we don't do that, we will look back and still question if it was a mistake to pick him.

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