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Old
04-27-2009, 09:15 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Laraque4PM View Post
Simple question from an Oil fan to Philly fans, do you like the way this guy plays? Every time I watch this guy (going back to his days as an Oiler) he creates pretty much nothing and relies solely on hard work and good passes from teammates. The only thing I see in him is a good shot, other than that nothing but deadweight which holds a team back. I dont know maybe im just crazy and out to lunch here but what are all the Philly fans thoughts? Do you guys like the way he plays the game???
This thread sucks, what kind of response are you looking for? No better yet here is one for you! He score 20+ plus goals and is streaky and most Flyer fans would say it was an off year. As an Oiler fan you would probably drool at his stats as he would probably be a leading scorer for your team. He struggled in the playoffs, as did most of his Flyer mates, but I guess the playoffs aren't what you were wondering about right? So for a guy who creates pretty much nothing I would say he was alright. Creating nothing should be left up to Hemsky... no he creates offsides.

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04-27-2009, 09:17 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by stafuccijr View Post
I think you guys are all missing one crucial point. The core of the team, the "in crowd" so to speak all love Lupul and each other. It is obvious when Upshall got traded the whole team was pissed. Not only did they lose their teammate but they lost a good friend. Their play in following games showed it.

Now, we will let Lupul go (even though I dont think we will), and the team will be really pissed off. .

Friends get traded in hockey all day long. Friends get traded in sports all day long. It happens. If those guys can't deal with it, they wouldn't be pro athletes. They'd be lying their ages and playing tykes with all their other lying buddies.

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04-27-2009, 09:27 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CanuckistanFlyerfan View Post
Friends get traded in hockey all day long. Friends get traded in sports all day long. It happens. If those guys can't deal with it, they wouldn't be pro athletes. They'd be lying their ages and playing tykes with all their other lying buddies.
I never said I agreed with it, it is simply just the way it is. The team is all young and they are losing their "college drinking buddies" one by one and it is getting to them. Simple as that.

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04-27-2009, 09:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Brophy View Post
one word: waivers. peace holmes.
This. You can probably get a team to pick up half of his salary on re-entry waivers.

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04-27-2009, 09:50 AM
  #55
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This. You can probably get a team to pick up half of his salary on re-entry waivers.
Why the **** would we want to be stuck with half his salary if he isn't here?

If we send him down, he is NEVER coming back up.

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04-27-2009, 09:51 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
This. You can probably get a team to pick up half of his salary on re-entry waivers.
that had better be a last resort. why have joffrey in the minors for 4 years? or pay half his salary for almost a decade? there will be buyers for lupul, but the price won't be very satisfying for flyers fans.

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04-27-2009, 09:57 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
that had better be a last resort. why have joffrey in the minors for 4 years? or pay half his salary for almost a decade? there will be buyers for lupul, but the price won't be very satisfying for flyers fans.
If by price you mean a 3rd round pick which in turn gives us the option to bring JVR up full time, then yes, it would be satisfying.

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04-27-2009, 09:58 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CanuckistanFlyerfan View Post
Friends get traded in hockey all day long. Friends get traded in sports all day long. It happens. If those guys can't deal with it, they wouldn't be pro athletes. They'd be lying their ages and playing tykes with all their other lying buddies.
Thats definitely true, but the problem with this team is that they are all in the same age range and have been playing with and against each other for years. Not all of them just became friends when they became Flyers. Is it true that Lupul was actually with Upshall when he found out he was traded here?

One of the things that made this team good was the fact that everyone was so tight, but the downside is what happened when Upshall was traded. The team did not look the same from the time he got traded and its very worrisome. Its not like he was an integral part to our success on the ice. I'd feel much better if that were the case because then it would be like "hey one of our good players was traded." But although Upshall was a good player he was still a third liner that didn't contribute much offense.

The fact that Upshall had to stop his interview because he was in tears show that he wasn't leaving a pro team he was leaving friends, and the fact that they played so poorly against Calgary the next night is a testament to that. I understand it, but at the same time I don't because I've seen so many people come and go, especially with watching the Eagles, and the team not be affected by anything except missing the talent of the player.

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04-27-2009, 09:59 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
If by price you mean a 3rd round pick which in turn gives us the option to bring JVR up full time, then yes, it would be satisfying.
Are you certain JVR will be ready to play in the NHL next year, let alone replace Lupul's 25 goals and 50 pints?

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04-27-2009, 10:12 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Candiria92 View Post
Are you certain JVR will be ready to play in the NHL next year, let alone replace Lupul's 25 goals and 50 pints?
I feel it will be worth a shot, especially considering Giroux and Briere will (hopefully) play the full year and make up for Lupul's production.

Giroux only played half a season and Briere only played 25 games. I think JVR won't exactly be pressured to take over Lupul's production when Giroux and Briere will both be available from the start.

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
JVR-Giroux-Powe
Carcillo-Ross-Asham

Something like that would be awesome! Re-sign Knuble at 2.5 or something.

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04-27-2009, 11:22 AM
  #61
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I doubt JVR will be ready to start the season on the NHL roster. He wasn't even that effective in his limited time in the AHL. He'd be better off starting the season with the Phantoms like Giroux did.

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04-27-2009, 11:27 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I doubt JVR will be ready to start the season on the NHL roster. He wasn't even that effective in his limited time in the AHL. He'd be better off starting the season with the Phantoms like Giroux did.
Patrick Kane has 162 more NHL games under his belt then JVR does. Patrick Kane also has 142 NHL points so far in his career.

Kyle Turris has 66 more NHL games under his belt then JVR does.

I know JVR would develop more slowly, but he realistically should be suiting up for the Flyers some time next season.

Maybe not to start, but he really should be in the NHL by the end of next season.

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04-27-2009, 11:38 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Patrick Kane has 162 more NHL games under his belt then JVR does. Patrick Kane also has 142 NHL points so far in his career.

Kyle Turris has 66 more NHL games under his belt then JVR does.

I know JVR would develop more slowly, but he realistically should be suiting up for the Flyers some time next season.

Maybe not to start, but he really should be in the NHL by the end of next season.
Kane and Turris have games under their belt because Chicago and Phoenix were terrible when those guys came around. There's a reason Kane went before JVR in the draft, and if you head on over to the Phoenix board, you'll notice people suggesting Turris starts in the AHL next year. Starting JVR with the Phantoms puts him exactly in line with his peers. #4 Thomas Hickey has yet to make the big show, and #5 Alzner has only 30 games so far. Only 3-4 guys from that draft class have made much of a splash so far. Putting JVR down with the farm club for a while, even for a full season, isn't really putting him behind the rest of that bunch.

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04-27-2009, 01:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Kane and Turris have games under their belt because Chicago and Phoenix were terrible when those guys came around. There's a reason Kane went before JVR in the draft, and if you head on over to the Phoenix board, you'll notice people suggesting Turris starts in the AHL next year. Starting JVR with the Phantoms puts him exactly in line with his peers. #4 Thomas Hickey has yet to make the big show, and #5 Alzner has only 30 games so far. Only 3-4 guys from that draft class have made much of a splash so far. Putting JVR down with the farm club for a while, even for a full season, isn't really putting him behind the rest of that bunch.
Fair enough, but I still think Giroux and Briere can make up for Lupul's points next year.

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04-27-2009, 02:54 PM
  #65
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I guess I am one of the few Lupul fans, and truly hope he stays next year. However, to open up his production I think he is going to need to be moved from Carter's line. I would agree that he is streaky, but so are most of the players on the team.

This year it was just a bit too hard to break up the Hartnell-Carter-Lupul line because at times they were the only ones producing. Also it is very difficult for us to really mix up lines because frankly our top 3 lines deserve a lot of minutes and it is difficult to make a traditional "third" line that would see less minutes than the top 2. I for one wouldn't mind seeing our forwards round out like this:

Gagne-Richards-Lupul
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Briere-Knuble
Carcillo-Ross-Asham

I really think that Gagne-Richards-Lupul could pick teams apart and be one of the foremost scoring lines in the league...and having the second leading goal scorer in the league centering a power forward and soon to be one of the foremost playmakers, he will see an abundance of shots that either go in or Hartnell can clean up. Now most will notice a lack of JVR in this set-up and that is because I would prefer he start the season in the AHL. At this point in time there is no need to put excess pressure on him or possibly stunt his development by bringing him out too early.

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04-27-2009, 02:57 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I feel it will be worth a shot, especially considering Giroux and Briere will (hopefully) play the full year and make up for Lupul's production.

Giroux only played half a season and Briere only played 25 games. I think JVR won't exactly be pressured to take over Lupul's production when Giroux and Briere will both be available from the start.

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
JVR-Giroux-Powe
Carcillo-Ross-Asham

Something like that would be awesome! Re-sign Knuble at 2.5 or something.
Powe isnt even a right winger. He played on the left wing an is a natural center. Sorry, but our right wing depth is terrible. Aside from Lupul and Briere they have nothing. Lupul is not a problem. Give him a playmaker on his line and he'll be a beast. I'd like to see him on a line with Giroux and Hartnell. They need to find another right winger this offseason.

To go back to this guys thread about Lupul's style of play, he would be best suited if he had Richards, Giroux, or Briere as his center. Next year will be his make or break season. He needs to be a thirty goal scorer and I havent given up on him. And btw they cant afford lossing another friend on this team.

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04-27-2009, 03:05 PM
  #67
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Powe isnt even a right winger. He played on the left wing an is a natural center. Sorry, but our right wing depth is terrible. Aside from Lupul and Briere they have nothing. Lupul is not a problem. Give him a playmaker on his line and he'll be a beast. I'd like to see him on a line with Giroux and Hartnell. They need to find another right winger this offseason.

To go back to this guys thread about Lupul's style of play, he would be best suited if he had Richards, Giroux, or Briere as his center. Next year will be his make or break season. He needs to be a thirty goal scorer and I havent given up on him. And btw they cant afford lossing another friend on this team.
I could care less about Powe playing RW or not. Giroux came up a winger, not a center, but Steven's converted him. Powe can certainly be converted to play the right side if need be.

Honestly, Lupul is overpaid and is the easiest to move without having to much trouble. Our RW depth is weak, but I bet they re-sign Knuble for another year. Then we can have Knuble, Briere and Asham all on the RW, and we can move someone else over.

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04-27-2009, 03:10 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Lupul is overpaid and is the easiest to move without having to much trouble.
Define easy to move. From the consensus here it seems that this is not the case and that we would be trading for a loss of assets if we were to move Lupul.

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04-27-2009, 03:17 PM
  #69
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Define easy to move. From the consensus here it seems that this is not the case and that we would be trading for a loss of assets if we were to move Lupul.
I have zero problems trading Lupul for little return if it paves the way for JVR and gives us some cap space to work on signing goalies and shoring up the D.

Some team will bite on him, even with his salary.

We won't get a 1st for him, but someone will offer something.

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04-27-2009, 09:16 PM
  #70
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Joffrey who? Lets talk about Claude Giroux

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04-28-2009, 03:07 AM
  #71
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Are you certain JVR will be ready to play in the NHL next year, let alone replace Lupul's 25 goals and 50 pints?
Personally I'm not interested in trading Lupul so that JVR can have a chance to come up. In fact if JVR does come up, I'd actually say there's very little chance that he puts up the same kind of numbers that Lupul can.

To me, the problem with Lupul is that he is a huge opportunity cost. At a little over 2 million I can deal with streakiness and doing nothing defensively. 50 points, while not great, is nothing to scoff at and 2-3 million is a perfectly reasonable salary to be playing an ok second line player.

However, once that jumps up to 4.25 million your talking about taking away cap space that can be going to much greater needs. Is JVR going to replicate Lupul's production? I seriously doubt it. Is Lupul going to improve our defense or goaltending if he stays? Hell no. When you look at this team with Richards, Carter, Gagne, Briere, Hartnell, and Giroux with JVR waiting in the wings and hustle guys like Powe and Nodl coming up, it is very apparent that forward is not an area of need. Then you look at our defense past Timonen and Coburn and our goaltending situation and it's full of question marks.

As nice as it is to have a complimentary player like Lupul, there are much bigger needs on this team. Until we can field a third pairing that doesn't give up a scoring chance every time they are on the ice and a goalie that can give us consistency instead of mediocrity interspersed with random hot streaks, I don't think Lupul is a luxury that we can afford.

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04-28-2009, 05:45 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
If by price you mean a 3rd round pick which in turn gives us the option to bring JVR up full time, then yes, it would be satisfying.
This is looking at the big picture. I dont want JvR up at the start, but I love the idea of being able to bring him up when he's ready. If cutting Lupul for picks is enough to give up wiggle room for call ups, then I too like this. just put someone on the 4th line until James is ready. Losing Lupul also frees up money to spend this summer to address the defense.

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04-28-2009, 07:39 AM
  #73
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I guess I am one of the few Lupul fans, and truly hope he stays next year. However, to open up his production I think he is going to need to be moved from Carter's line. I would agree that he is streaky, but so are most of the players on the team.

This year it was just a bit too hard to break up the Hartnell-Carter-Lupul line because at times they were the only ones producing. Also it is very difficult for us to really mix up lines because frankly our top 3 lines deserve a lot of minutes and it is difficult to make a traditional "third" line that would see less minutes than the top 2. I for one wouldn't mind seeing our forwards round out like this:

Gagne-Richards-Lupul
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Briere-Knuble
Carcillo-Ross-Asham

I really think that Gagne-Richards-Lupul could pick teams apart and be one of the foremost scoring lines in the league...and having the second leading goal scorer in the league centering a power forward and soon to be one of the foremost playmakers, he will see an abundance of shots that either go in or Hartnell can clean up. Now most will notice a lack of JVR in this set-up and that is because I would prefer he start the season in the AHL. At this point in time there is no need to put excess pressure on him or possibly stunt his development by bringing him out too early.
this. with the way giroux makes plays, why not make him the set up man for carter?

shoot the puck low, let hartnell dig the corners, get it to giroux who works his wizardry to carter.

i think that would be an effective line.

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04-28-2009, 07:47 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by flountown View Post
I guess I am one of the few Lupul fans, and truly hope he stays next year. However, to open up his production I think he is going to need to be moved from Carter's line. I would agree that he is streaky, but so are most of the players on the team.

This year it was just a bit too hard to break up the Hartnell-Carter-Lupul line because at times they were the only ones producing. Also it is very difficult for us to really mix up lines because frankly our top 3 lines deserve a lot of minutes and it is difficult to make a traditional "third" line that would see less minutes than the top 2. I for one wouldn't mind seeing our forwards round out like this:

Gagne-Richards-Lupul
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Briere-Knuble
Carcillo-Ross-Asham


I really think that Gagne-Richards-Lupul could pick teams apart and be one of the foremost scoring lines in the league...and having the second leading goal scorer in the league centering a power forward and soon to be one of the foremost playmakers, he will see an abundance of shots that either go in or Hartnell can clean up. Now most will notice a lack of JVR in this set-up and that is because I would prefer he start the season in the AHL. At this point in time there is no need to put excess pressure on him or possibly stunt his development by bringing him out too early.
Trust me i've been a huge fan of Lupul and most people around here can tell you that but hes just not needed on this team any longer. I want him to stay more than anyone but I just dont know if thats what is best for the team. Here is how I see the 4 lines:


Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-ENTER THIRD LINE CHECKER/DOMINATE FACEOFFS-Knuble
Carcillo-Ross-Asham


gives cap room and makes for the traditional 2 scoring lines and a real checking line.

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04-28-2009, 09:21 AM
  #75
Haute Couturier
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Patrick Kane has 162 more NHL games under his belt then JVR does. Patrick Kane also has 142 NHL points so far in his career.

Kyle Turris has 66 more NHL games under his belt then JVR does.

I know JVR would develop more slowly, but he realistically should be suiting up for the Flyers some time next season.

Maybe not to start, but he really should be in the NHL by the end of next season.
He may very well be ready to make the jump to the NHL at some point next season, but he should only be promoted when he is ready. He shouldn't be on the roster simply because we feel he should be in the NHL.

All prospects have their own timetable to develop so you can't compare him to what other prospects are doing. Kane is obviously a special talent so you can't really compare JVR to him. Turris was rushed to the NHL by a lousy team so his 66 games aren't a great comparison. We are a good team that is deep at the forward position so there is no need to rush JVR. We are better off being patient with him.

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