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Everything you need (and more than you'd want) to know about sticks

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Old
04-27-2009, 05:37 PM
  #26
Heat McManus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedWrister View Post
Question, I'm about 5 foot 6, 145 but 23 years old. Can I get an intermediate stick? All the senior sticks are too stiff after I cut them down.
I am 5'6" 170 (yeah, need to cut down on the cookies) and I have used intermediate sticks. It's also going to depend on how powerful you are. My upper body is not overly strong, but I can load the stick pretty well using solid shot mechanics. I feel like if I was a little stronger in my arms I might be snapping the intermediate sticks.

The older Bauer Vapor XX Int (77 flex) was perfect for me. I've tried the MED Flex 77s and don't feel as crazy about it.
One thing I don't like about the Easton Int. (SE16 and S17) is that the blade doesn't feel as sturdy. I've got to be real soft when accepting passes.

Lately I've gone back to my 85 flex Z-Bubble with One95 wood blades.

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Old
04-27-2009, 05:40 PM
  #27
Gunnar Stahl 30
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i feel like a giant in this thread

too bad i wasnt better, i may have had a shot at playing in a better league

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04-27-2009, 05:53 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedWrister View Post
Question, I'm about 5 foot 6, 145 but 23 years old. Can I get an intermediate stick? All the senior sticks are too stiff after I cut them down.
I'm almost exactly your size, and I use an intermediate NB Vapor XVI 67 flex. I LOVE IT. Not only will intermediate sticks give you more whip action and velocity on your shots, but they are usually significantly cheaper than their senior counterparts.

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Old
04-27-2009, 05:58 PM
  #29
TheSkatingDutchman
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
As a 140lb, 5'7 adult, the original post is full of incorrect information.
Well that all depends on your gender. I suspect that your either a woman or just a very small man (no offense on the woman thing). Everybody here who is shouting WRONG! isn't putting into factor that this is meant for complete beginners who are probably buying a stick for their kid.

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Old
04-27-2009, 06:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TheSkatingDutchman View Post
Well that all depends on your gender. I suspect that your either a woman or just a very small man (no offense on the woman thing). Everybody here who is shouting WRONG! isn't putting into factor that this is meant for complete beginners who are probably buying a stick for their kid.
imo, its a good guide line, but personal preference plays a big factor. if a player has no experience then yea, its s a good set or rules until they figure out what they like and dont like

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04-27-2009, 06:20 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheSkatingDutchman View Post
Well that all depends on your gender.
No it doesn't. According to you I should only use senior wood sticks, and regardless of my gender, that's pretty much the opposite of what I should use.

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Old
04-27-2009, 06:26 PM
  #32
TheSkatingDutchman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
I don't have kids but this statement made me curious. So long as money isn't an issue wouldn't some kids benefit from the lower weight of a composite (as opposed to a wood stick)?



For a player like myself (39 years old, 200lbs, advanced beginner level) I understand that a Junior stick has a thinner shaft and the flex is geared for a smaller player. But what's the difference between Intermediate and Senior? I'm not sure I've seen many intermediate sticks at my local hockey shop. Is it even worth it for me to check one out?



This is the part I'm most interested in -- I buy according to price first, then by flex and curve giving no thought about the lie. Just so I'm clear does a 7 lie mean the blade is at a 90 degree angle to the stick shaft? How do I settle on a lie that's best for me?

Thanks in advance and welcome to the forum.

The whole weight issue is kind of a non-issue for you, I think. As a beginner I think you should try to get all the skills down first.

As a 200lbs person I would definitely use a senior stick because you'll snap an intermediate with shot as they are easier to flex. Another thing you'll need to consider is your height. If you're 5'6", like everybody who has replied, then chances are a senior stick will either be too long for you to comfortably use or you'll have to cut it down.

When it comes to lie, a 7 is not at 90 degrees. There is a legal limit to lies and 7 usually fits most leagues (and they probably won't check). The whole thing about curve is that it is all personal preference. One thing I recommend people do (because I don't get commissions) is use their buddys' sticks to find a curve. Take a few shots, see how it feels and try a few. I've sold more our whole stock of One50s to people this way at a stick and puck this month (people who have been playing for a while will get this).

And one more thing that I know I'll get hounded on for, don't get dooped by ads. They really don't improve sticks that drastically from year to year, so don't go jetset to the newest stick. I use a One50 I got for $20 and it works perfectly fine for me.

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Old
04-27-2009, 06:29 PM
  #33
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For all you guys who are adults and around 5 and a half foot, I strongly recommend considering using a two-piece intermediate shaft with a senior blade.

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Old
04-27-2009, 06:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
No it doesn't. According to you I should only use senior wood sticks, and regardless of my gender, that's pretty much the opposite of what I should use.
Well sorry but I wrote it as a general guide for beginners (and pretty much for males) and not specifically for you. I have no idea what your skill level or preferences are.

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Old
04-27-2009, 06:45 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkeric View Post
The original post wasn't that bad, but the tone was way too condescending considering that some of the information is blatantly wrong.



WRONG. Obviously technique is the most important thing, but anyone can benefit from a lighter stick. Also, this contradicts what you wrote earlier about flex. Composite sticks have a wide range of flexes.



That's a good rule of thumb, but stick length is really a personal preference. Gretzky and Crosby use sticks that come up to their collar bone. Pavel Datsyuk and Jagr use sticks that come up to their eyes.



WRONG. The proper lie is determined by skating style. Bent over (Gretzky) players use lower lies; Upright (Lemieux) players use higher lies. Lifting the puck has to do with the curve and also whether the face is open or closed.



You don't have to be in the NHL to appreciate and take advantage of improved equipment. If you actually hang around some Midget level players, you'll hear about how the new Easton Synergy sticks have a better feel and less dead, tinny blades. Or how the Bauer Vapor XXXX has a great kickpoint for wristers.

Again, most of the OP information was solid, but you're going to get called out if you act like a know-it-all.
Yeah, but this post isn't exactly for Midget level players. I see too many parents come in and waste (I said it, waste) a couple hundred dollars on the newest and latest stick that Bauer has churned out on a kid who has barely played.

I meant to say composite SENIOR sticks.

As for the lie, in most every experience I and most knowledgeable people I know have had, have GENERALLY SPEAKING found it to help with elevating wrist shots with a variety of curves. Some people will argue "I get my shot up high with a lower lie." I'm sure YOU and many others can, but in my experience most people like higher lies.

Oh, forgot stick length. You're right about Crosby and Gretzky using short sticks and Datsyuk and Jagr using longer sticks but if people haven't been around hockey long enough to know the old rule of thumb on stick length then they don't have the level of skill of Crosby or Gretzky. Well, I suppose few (none?) do but you need to remember I wrote this for beginners, not for anybody who has their exact specifications figured out and are playing at Midget or Junior levels.


Last edited by TheSkatingDutchman: 04-27-2009 at 06:52 PM.
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Old
04-27-2009, 06:48 PM
  #36
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I took Headcoach's advice of cutting the stick down 2-3 inches below the chin and I feel my skating has become a lot better.


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Old
04-27-2009, 07:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Golden Road View Post
I took Headcoach's advice of cutting the stick down 2-3 inches below the chin and I feel my skating has become a lot better.

Well that all depends. I found myself hunched over and uncomfortable when playing with a short stick and that my slapshot had lost a lot of power. I'm guessing that you too are shorter than me? (I'm 6'2" by the way.) I think the chin rule is a good rule of thumb until the player has gotten the basics down and can experiment with different types of lengths and curves and lies etc. as I suspect you have.

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Old
04-27-2009, 07:43 PM
  #38
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At this point, you should just stop posting. I'm not going to bother correcting every one of your posts, this is getting ridiculous.

I think it's pretty funny that he's making a point to say this is for "beginners" only... So as they progress, they realize how wrong his advice was and can adjust to their preferences.

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Old
04-27-2009, 07:52 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkatingDutchman View Post
Well that all depends. I found myself hunched over and uncomfortable when playing with a short stick and that my slapshot had lost a lot of power. I'm guessing that you too are shorter than me? (I'm 6'2" by the way.) I think the chin rule is a good rule of thumb until the player has gotten the basics down and can experiment with different types of lengths and curves and lies etc. as I suspect you have.
No doubt that if you use a longer stick that it will have more flex naturally, just from it being longer. The more you take off your stick (Cut it) it increases stiffness and therefore decreases your flex. I am 5' 7" 170lbs. and I usually cut my stick when I'm in shoes to the bottom of my nose, that way when I'm on skates it comes to about my chin. Because of my height and stick length I try to use a stick with a high amount of flex.

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Old
04-27-2009, 10:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TBLfan View Post
At this point, you should just stop posting. I'm not going to bother correcting every one of your posts, this is getting ridiculous.

I think it's pretty funny that he's making a point to say this is for "beginners" only... So as they progress, they realize how wrong his advice was and can adjust to their preferences.
Scary thing is, he's working at a shop and should be educated enough to know better.

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04-27-2009, 11:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkatingDutchman View Post
Well that all depends. I found myself hunched over and uncomfortable when playing with a short stick and that my slapshot had lost a lot of power. I'm guessing that you too are shorter than me? (I'm 6'2" by the way.) I think the chin rule is a good rule of thumb until the player has gotten the basics down and can experiment with different types of lengths and curves and lies etc. as I suspect you have.
Do you skate like a Penguin then? The shorter stick forces you to have a deep knee bend.

But like the other's have said, it a personal preference...

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Old
04-28-2009, 12:29 AM
  #42
Heat McManus
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Dutchman, where do you work?

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Old
04-28-2009, 03:29 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stick9 View Post
Scary thing is, he's working at a shop and should be educated enough to know better.
Honestly, I'm not surprised.

Have you ever talked to a customer service rep on HM or HG on the phone?

Me: "What retail pattern would you compare it to?"
HM: "Uh, you mean the bend?"
Me: "Yeah" *sigh*
HM: "Well if I hold it this way, it curves to the left. If I hold it the other way, it curves to the right."
Me: "Thank you, can I ask you a question?"
HM: "Sure"
Me: "Does your manager have a working brain stem?"
HM: "Uhh, I think so."
Me: "Can I speak with them?"
HM: "Why?"
Me: Argh

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Old
04-28-2009, 10:35 AM
  #44
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C'mon, everyone. I think Dutchman means well, so let's cut him some slack rather than nitpicking point by point. Although the thread title is misleading the OP is pretty obviously geared toward parents buying equipment for their child just starting to play and his focus is on saving them some money. Object to his tone if you wish but it could be the result of one mother of a tough day at the shop.

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Old
04-28-2009, 11:28 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
C'mon, everyone. I think Dutchman means well, so let's cut him some slack rather than nitpicking point by point. Although the thread title is misleading the OP is pretty obviously geared toward parents buying equipment for their child just starting to play and his focus is on saving them some money. Object to his tone if you wish but it could be the result of one mother of a tough day at the shop.
I think his intent was to be helpful, which is certainly a plus. Full credit for that for sure.

I know better, so the inaccuracies were obvious. Most in this thread know better and also pointed them out. You have to ask yourself though. Is this the info that should given to people who don't know any different?

Quote:
The most important factor in a curve is the lie, which is the angle of the blade to the shaft. A lie is the best way to remember what kind of curve you prefer and is categorized from 1 to 7. A 1 curve is straight and a 7 is a near ridiculous angle. Most every stick made is from Lie 4 to 7.

Generally speaking, the higher the lie the easier it is to lift the puck off the ice.
He takes the time to explain what stick lie is, but is completely wrong about what it does. Mom takes junior into Gary's house of twigs and little Billy gets a 7 lie stick because he wants help lifting the puck. Later at practice Billy can't understand why the puck keeps sliding under the toe of his blade. See my point?

IMO the most critical aspect to finding the right stick is lie, followed by flex. The wrong lie will make you hate even the best stick.

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04-28-2009, 12:39 PM
  #46
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So are intermediate shafts thinner than senior? And by how much?

BTW a great guide *http://www.epinions.com/content_3839271044*


Last edited by WickedWrister: 04-28-2009 at 12:54 PM.
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Old
04-28-2009, 01:40 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by stick9 View Post
I think his intent was to be helpful, which is certainly a plus. Full credit for that for sure.

I know better, so the inaccuracies were obvious. Most in this thread know better and also pointed them out. You have to ask yourself though. Is this the info that should given to people who don't know any different?



He takes the time to explain what stick lie is, but is completely wrong about what it does. Mom takes junior into Gary's house of twigs and little Billy gets a 7 lie stick because he wants help lifting the puck. Later at practice Billy can't understand why the puck keeps sliding under the toe of his blade. See my point?

IMO the most critical aspect to finding the right stick is lie, followed by flex. The wrong lie will make you hate even the best stick.
Oh, I have no problem with people pointing out the inaccuracies. The thread was very productive in the early going (thanks to all for the advice). It just started getting chippy toward the end.


Last edited by EmptyNetter: 04-28-2009 at 01:48 PM.
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Old
04-28-2009, 03:20 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by WickedWrister View Post
So are intermediate shafts thinner than senior? And by how much?

BTW a great guide *http://www.epinions.com/content_3839271044*
good question. I am also curious about Int sticks as oppose to senior. I usually cut an inch off of a senior stick (5'11 165) and was wondering what the length difference is between an Int and a senior

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Old
04-28-2009, 03:21 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedWrister View Post
So are intermediate shafts thinner than senior? And by how much?

BTW a great guide *http://www.epinions.com/content_3839271044*
Not thinner, they're still senior shaft dimension, but they have a lighter flex, typically 65, and come shorter so you don't have to cut them down as much.

Quote:
good question. I am also curious about Int sticks as oppose to senior. I usually cut an inch off of a senior stick (5'11 165) and was wondering what the length difference is between an Int and a senior
It's more then that. You're way beyond the size range for intermediate sticks. Those are generally for guys who are 5'2 - 5'8 or so. You're pretty much an average adult, standard for a guy like you would be a regular 85 flex senior stick. If you need a lighter flex get a 75.


Last edited by cptjeff: 04-28-2009 at 03:35 PM.
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Old
04-28-2009, 03:31 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
Oh, I have no problem with people pointing out the inaccuracies. The thread was very productive in the early going (thanks to all for the advice). It just started getting chippy toward the end.
The ONLY way to check if you are using the correct lie is by this ....

Is Your Current Hockey Stick Lie Correct?

Look at the tape on the bottom of the blade of one of your well used sticks.

If most of the wear is on the heel, choose a lower lie.

If most of the wear is in the toe of the stick, you should choose a higher lie.

If the tape is evenly worn across the bottom of the blade then you have a good lie for you.


Everyone is a different height and some shorter guys prefer a longer stick than other ones so there is no real guide to what a lie should be other than playing with your setup and paying attention to what you blade looks like when you are done.

I am 6ft 4in and use a long stick and prefer a 5 lie because of how my skating stance is. i am sure you will find some article stating this is not correct but that doesn't concern me because for my skating style and my stick length it is perfect as evidenced by the wear on the bottom of the blade. I do use a 5.5 as well and that works too.


Last edited by Hockeyfan68: 04-28-2009 at 03:37 PM.
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