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SJ-ATL, SJ-WAS, SJ-TB off-season blockbuster

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Old
04-28-2009, 04:11 PM
  #1
kram41
 
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SJ-ATL, SJ-WAS, SJ-TB off-season blockbuster

-Trade Marleau (waives NTC), Ehrhoff, SJ 2010 1st to Atlanta for ATL 2009 1st (4th overall) and Lehtonen. (Atlanta gets help they desperately need on the blueline and a veteran presence on offense to bait Kovalchuk into staying as his #1 center).
-Nabokov (waives NTC to play on a strongly Russian team) to Washington for WAS 2009 1st. (Washington gets a Russian goalie to mentor Varlamov until he's ready. Waives Theodore as they should.)
-ATL 1st, WAS 1st, (Cheechoo if necessary) to TB for TB 1st. (TB only trades down 2 spots and picks up another 1st rounder to help them rebuild).
-SJ drafts Hedman with TB 1st. Signs him to the max rookie contract.
-SJ sign Bouwmeester for $7.5M.
-Blake walks, Grier walks, Moen walks. Re-sign Clowe for anything less than $2.5m

Clowe - Thornton - Setoguchi
Michalek - Pavelski - Cheechoo
McGinn - Mitchell - Goc
Shelley - Roenick - Kaspar

Boyle, Lukowich, Bouwmeester, Hedman, Vlasic, Murray

Lehtonen, Back-up

Staubitz, Semenov, Plihal in the press box.

Total salary < $54,000,000.

Lehtonen can be no worse than Nabokov was this season. With that defense, he'll look much better than he ever did behind Atlanta's.

-Atlanta becomes greatly improved from this trade. Finally has a legitimate offense and the makings of a decent defense.
-Tampa is in complete rebuild mode and would only be trading down 2 spots in a deep draft to pick up an extra first round pick.
-Washington gets a goalie to mentor Varlamov and help them compete in net immediately.
-The Sharks get better without completely blowing up the team. They keep the cap space they're going to need to resign Pavelski and Setoguchi in the future.

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04-28-2009, 04:13 PM
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Tombernack
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Thats a lot to take in

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04-28-2009, 04:14 PM
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Darth Milbury
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1) Atlanta is not giving up their first for a package built around Marleau.

Getting their number 1 goalie as a throw-in makes it totally unworkable anyway.

2) If Washington wavies Theodore, he'll clear and they'll be stuck with his contact

3) Droping down two spots is a big problem for Tampa because the guy they'd really want most (Hedman), will be gone.

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04-28-2009, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
1) Atlanta is not giving up their first for a package built around Marleau.

Getting their number 1 goalie as a throw-in makes it totally unworkable anyway.

2) If Washington wavies Theodore, he'll clear and they'll be stuck with his contact

3) Droping down two spots is a big problem for Tampa because the guy they'd really want most (Hedman), will be gone.
1) I think that package is very intriguing. Trading down 25 spots, to get a legitimate #1 center that can help now and will possibly keep Kovalchuk in Atlanta. They also get the help they desperately need on the blueline. Take Vlasic instead of Ehrhoff if you'd like.

2) Irrelevant, Washington is stuck with him either way. They won't be able to trade him, and Nabokov could be huge to Varlamov's development (as well as carry them through the playoffs next year).

3) Tampa would not completely blow that trade off. They'd have 3 picks in the top 35 of a deep draft (4, 27, 32).

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04-28-2009, 04:20 PM
  #5
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With that type of roster i dont think SJ would be too thrilled with relying on Lehtonen between the pipes. Overall a very decent (but wacky) proposal. Blockbusters dont happen too often, let alone 3 team blockbusters..haha.

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04-28-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram41 View Post
1) I think that package is very intriguing. Trading down 25 spots, to get a legitimate #1 center that can help now and will possibly keep Kovalchuk in Atlanta. They also get the help they desperately need on the blueline. Take Vlasic instead of Ehrhoff if you'd like.

2) Irrelevant, Washington is stuck with him either way. They won't be able to trade him, and Nabokov could be huge to Varlamov's development (as well as carry them through the playoffs next year).

3) Tampa would not completely blow that trade off. They'd have 3 picks in the top 35 of a deep draft (4, 27, 32).
Don't you get it? Moves like that are what has held Atlanta down. Why should we trade a first line prospect like Kane for a first line player that we'll only keep for one year? A first line player that hasn't been able to get the best team in the NHL anywhere in the playoffs.. HEY LETS JUST DO THE COBURN/TKACHUK DEALS ALL OVER AGAIN AND GET SWEPT IN THE FIRST ROUND!!! It makes no ****ing sense.

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04-28-2009, 04:54 PM
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first off.. Atlanta says no big time. and then i stopped reading

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04-28-2009, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tombernack View Post
Thats a lot to take in
"That's what she said!"

----------------------------

Might as well do a complete overhaul if you're getting rid of Nabby and Marleau, and also get rid of Cheechoo, JR, etc.

That line-up has no chance at another President's Trophy - the forwards and goaltending get much worse. The D gets younger and better but in the short-term it won't nearly make up for the losses in the other areas.

Not that the Sharks were oozing with leadership in the first place, but they lose what little they had in those moves.

If the Sharks made those changes I can see them playing like Pittsburgh did to start this season, and go from a top team to one that has to be red hot down the stretch just to make the post season.

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04-28-2009, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
1) Atlanta is not giving up their first for a package built around Marleau.

Getting their number 1 goalie as a throw-in makes it totally unworkable anyway.

2) If Washington wavies Theodore, he'll clear and they'll be stuck with his contact

3) Droping down two spots is a big problem for Tampa because the guy they'd really want most (Hedman), will be gone.
this

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04-28-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArVeeDee View Post
Don't you get it? Moves like that are what has held Atlanta down. Why should we trade a first line prospect like Kane for a first line player that we'll only keep for one year? A first line player that hasn't been able to get the best team in the NHL anywhere in the playoffs.. HEY LETS JUST DO THE COBURN/TKACHUK DEALS ALL OVER AGAIN AND GET SWEPT IN THE FIRST ROUND!!! It makes no ****ing sense.
Well, your GM is Don Waddell.

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04-28-2009, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt the Dog View Post
"That's what she said!"

----------------------------

Might as well do a complete overhaul if you're getting rid of Nabby and Marleau, and also get rid of Cheechoo, JR, etc.

That line-up has no chance at another President's Trophy - the forwards and goaltending get much worse. The D gets younger and better but in the short-term it won't nearly make up for the losses in the other areas.

Not that the Sharks were oozing with leadership in the first place, but they lose what little they had in those moves.

If the Sharks made those changes I can see them playing like Pittsburgh did to start this season, and go from a top team to one that has to be red hot down the stretch just to make the post season.
A team with:
Boyle-Bouwmeester
Hedman-Vlasic

Would be ridiculous now, and the future. Lehtonen is a very solid goaltender who plays on a terrible defensive team. He could perform the same if not better than Nabokov did, especially with that defense. My only worry about Lehtonen would be his injury history.

Plus Pavelski is a totally capable 2nd line center, especially behind superstar Thornton. Setoguchi, Michalek, Clowe especially are great wingers.

This team would have an amazing blueline, a strong offence and a good overall veteran-young player balance. Again, my only worry would be if Lehtonen gets injured, or of his inexpierence in the playoffs.

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04-28-2009, 05:12 PM
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Atlanta fans, what would it take from the Sharks to get this pick - Marleau, Vlasic/Ehrhoff, Clowe (sign-and-trade), SJ 1st? You guys have a decent team already. Some young but NHL experienced blue-liners, a bona-fide number 1 center (who needs out of SJ to break out), and a solid winger?

Is it pretty much a given that Lehtonen will get moved this summer? Any chance at all you move this pick to San Jose for anything other than a Thornton/Boyle package?

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04-28-2009, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt the Dog View Post

Might as well do a complete overhaul if you're getting rid of Nabby and Marleau, and also get rid of Cheechoo, JR, etc.
Why? Nabby and Marleau will be better served elsewhere. I think it's a given that Marleau is not going to be worth his $6m salary as a winger. This team already has Thornton, Pavelski, Mitchell, and Goc as 4 solid centers. This is not just trading Marleau for the sake of trading him, we have 3 top 2 centers, so one has to go.

I wouldn't compain about moving Cheechoo for a mid-range pick or packaging him in one of the deals here.

Why get rid of JR? He's a relatively inexpensive 3rd/4th liner who can play with the top line and play PP minutes.

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04-28-2009, 05:20 PM
  #14
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Give Atlanta Thornton instead of Marleau.

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04-28-2009, 05:21 PM
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If you think Lehtonen would look better than Nabokov in front of their defense, oh my you need to watch some games. Do you see where these shots are coming from? Faceoff dot in is not where a good team lets shots come from initially and the Sharks were doing that all year.

Nabby was definitely average by his standards but his defensemen weren't all that great in their own zone often coughing up the puck and often the forwards allowed odd-man rushes to score against Nabby. The defense is good at blocking shots but not so good at getting the puck out or clearing the front of the net, the puck or bodies, either way.

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04-28-2009, 05:31 PM
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if ur goal is to get Hedman to SJ, just offer TB enough to get him. Sharks have tons of depth. Thornton/Marleau, Vlasic, prospect, and Sharks #1. Hedman will not come easily.

Caps will prob want to play Varlamov at least half the games next season. No point in losing our first to get Nabby for 41 games or so. Rather just play Theodore (at a few mil less a season to boot).

And as many have mentioned, Atl needs to rebuild slowly, as the Caps did. Stay the course.

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Old
04-28-2009, 07:13 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram41 View Post
Atlanta fans, what would it take from the Sharks to get this pick - Marleau, Vlasic/Ehrhoff, Clowe (sign-and-trade), SJ 1st? You guys have a decent team already. Some young but NHL experienced blue-liners, a bona-fide number 1 center (who needs out of SJ to break out), and a solid winger?

Is it pretty much a given that Lehtonen will get moved this summer? Any chance at all you move this pick to San Jose for anything other than a Thornton/Boyle package?
right now with the very real chance of kovalchuk leaving that pick is worth ten times more to atl than any package for it

kane would most likely be the 2nd line RW that was the one thing atlanta's offense lacked all season. kovalchuk has made it abundantly clear that he will re-sign as long as they continue to NOT mortgage away their future for a quick fix.

as far as lehtonen goes, most people that know jack about atlanta think pavelec will be more likely to be traded than lehtonen. contrary to popular opinion from people who aren't fans of the thrashers. those that point to waddell's comments don't remember that it is the same man who said zhitnik was a key part of the team weeks before buying out his contract. lehtonen has proven he could be a perennial all-star when healthy and on his game

as for defense 4 regulars on atlanta's d were rookies this year. one was in only his 2nd season and the other two are hainsey and exelby. the defense improved over the course of the year and will likely get better next season as all the guys learn the system better.

atlanta might look to add a top 4 d-man through free agency or possibly trade but not at the price of lehtonen or the first round pick

overall atlanta doesn't do this deal. they just aren't getting back what they need

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04-28-2009, 07:42 PM
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um.,, wouldnt wqashington be put over cap?, if not close

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04-28-2009, 07:48 PM
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good luck

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04-28-2009, 08:20 PM
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Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram41 View Post
1) I think that package is very intriguing. Trading down 25 spots, to get a legitimate #1 center that can help now and will possibly keep Kovalchuk in Atlanta. They also get the help they desperately need on the blueline. Take Vlasic instead of Ehrhoff if you'd like.).
The Thrashers already have a legitimate #1 center, Brian Little. he scored about 7 goals less than Marleau and he doesn't have any of the handicaps (age, injuries).

Its easy to describe a deal like this as "intriguing" when you are the fan of veteran team wanting to loot another team of their youth. But, few GMs of young rebuilding teams are "intrigued" by the idea of giving up a 4th overall in an extremely strong draft for 30-YO cener who is a year away from UFA.

And, I fail to see how Marleau is going to keep Kovy in town when Marleau isn't even on a longterm deal.

Waddel would laugh at that aspect of the deal, and this before you get his goaltender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kram41 View Post
2) Irrelevant, Washington is stuck with him either way. They won't be able to trade him, and Nabokov could be huge to Varlamov's development (as well as carry them through the playoffs next year)..).
Its irrelevant - if you are playing NHL 2009. Its not irrelevant if you are a GM and you have a budget and salary cap to deal with. You can't just add expensive goalie after expensive goalie until you get it right.

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Originally Posted by kram41 View Post
3) Tampa would not completely blow that trade off. They'd have 3 picks in the top 35 of a deep draft (4, 27, 32).
And, they'd still be passing on the player they really want, to draft players at positions they are already strong at.

They wouldn't just "blow it off." It wouldn't even get Lawton's attention.

Nothing about any of this is vaguely workable.

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04-28-2009, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
The Thrashers already have a legitimate #1 center, Brian Little. he scored about 7 goals less than Marleau and he doesn't have any of the handicaps (age, injuries).

Its easy to describe a deal like this as "intriguing" when you are the fan of veteran team wanting to loot another team of their youth. But, few GMs of young rebuilding teams are "intrigued" by the idea of giving up a 4th overall in an extremely strong draft for 30-YO cener who is a year away from UFA.

And, I fail to see how Marleau is going to keep Kovy in town when Marleau isn't even on a longterm deal.

Waddel would laugh at that aspect of the deal, and this before you get his goaltender.
little played RW this year and completely reinvented himself into a power forward

while he might move back to center eventually for the expected future he is atl's top line RW and white is their top center

as for marleau, it takes a special kind of player to play with kovalchuk

you have to be good defensively, be a good passer, but also be able to handle his very underrated passes. you really have to predict what he is going to do and not react to it like most people try to. you have to have a lot of chemistry. i think that is one of the reasons little and white play so well with him because they have very good chemistry together and they all know what the other is going to do before they do it.

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04-28-2009, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kram41 View Post
2) Irrelevant, Washington is stuck with him either way. They won't be able to trade him, and Nabokov could be huge to Varlamov's development (as well as carry them through the playoffs next year).
I don't say this often...you're an idiot.

Let me get this straight. Washington has a goaltender with a big contract as a backup to Varly, so they give the Sharks a 1st for another backup with a bloated contract and eat both bloated contracts?

Just stop.

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04-28-2009, 09:08 PM
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it almost makes...too much sense.
its inevitable

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Old
04-28-2009, 10:24 PM
  #24
Peter Sidorkiewicz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kram41 View Post
-Trade Marleau (waives NTC), Ehrhoff, SJ 2010 1st to Atlanta for ATL 2009 1st (4th overall) and Lehtonen. (Atlanta gets help they desperately need on the blueline and a veteran presence on offense to bait Kovalchuk into staying as his #1 center).
-Atlanta becomes greatly improved from this trade. Finally has a legitimate offense and the makings of a decent defense.
You've got rocks in your head if you think Atlanta will greatly improve with that proposal. Atlanta already has a legitmate offense as it is in the top 10 in the NHL. Also Atlanta needs to improve defensively (as in defensive play, not scoring from the blue line). I don't see adding another offensive defenseman and removing the teams no. 1 goaltender will help the team improve defensively.

A few other comments:

I don't like swapping a top 5 pick for a first round pick that you can't judge how good it will be. Also I would be more happy with a pick in 2009 draft compared to 2010 draft as I've read reports that this years draft goes very deep.

Ehrhoff won't be a difference maker on defense and he will probably be behind Kovalchuk, Enstrom, Bogosian and Hainsey for powerplay time on the points so his offensive points totals will decrease in Atlanta. Atlanta would ideally like to add a top 4 defensive defenseman to their team not an offensive one like Ehrhoff.

Why would Marleau waive his no trade clause to go to Atlanta? You realise that he is San Jose captain and has been there for over 10 years. I don't there would be many captains in the history of the NHL that would leave there 10 years+ tenure at a current playoff team to go to another team that finished with the 4th worst record in the NHL. Especially if there is no financial incentive to do so.

And finally Lehtonen is pretty untouchable at moment for Atlanta as Pavelec, although highly touted, is not ready for the starters position yet.

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