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Mike Richards Nominated for Selke Trophy

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Old
04-28-2009, 05:48 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
And I'm convinced you are a girl hot for Richards, if you can't recognize his game regressed quite a bit this season. Last year, he should have been a Selke candidate.

Giveaways is a useless stat ... I wasn't even looking at it. It more subjective than 'hits'. Watch the games, and tell me that Richards didn't turn the puck over a ton this year. Watch Detroit games, and tell me that he's not one of the major reasons why #1 lines seem to have off games against the Red Wings.
Quite a bit? You said in your "post mortem" thread that he regressed a little bit. Now because you're being challenged, it was quite a bit?

Watch Philadelphia games and tell me that Mike Richards and every other player on the team would have significantly less turnovers if there was any structure to their game at all. When your breakout plan is chip it off the glass or skate it through the neutral zone because you don't have an outlet to pass to, everyone turns the puck over.

You want a girl hot for Richards - talk to Kambo.

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04-28-2009, 05:57 PM
  #27
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Turning the puck over in the offensive zone does not make you a bad defensive player. You are playing offense at that point, not defense. Most of Richard's turnovers were from trying to do too much in the offensive zone.

I also don't know how a player can score 5 more points and reach the 30 goal plateau for the first time and regress. Richards is a PPG player with great defensive ability. He is not a pure checker.

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04-28-2009, 06:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Quite a bit? You said in your "post mortem" thread that he regressed a little bit. Now because you're being challenged, it was quite a bit?

Watch Philadelphia games and tell me that Mike Richards and every other player on the team would have significantly less turnovers if there was any structure to their game at all. When your breakout plan is chip it off the glass or skate it through the neutral zone because you don't have an outlet to pass to, everyone turns the puck over.

You want a girl hot for Richards - talk to Kambo.
Little bit, quite a bit. Somewhere in there. It's not enough to be 'significant', or really overly concerning unless it continues next year.

If you asked the Flyers who should be their Selke nominee, I'm thinking Gagne gets the nod over Richards.

I'm not trying to knock Richards, I'm really not ... he a very very good he's just not a top 3 defensive forward in the league right now, probably not even top 7-10.

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04-28-2009, 06:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Little bit, quite a bit. Somewhere in there. It's not enough to be 'significant', or really overly concerning unless it continues next year.

If you asked the Flyers who should be their Selke nominee, I'm thinking Gagne gets the nod over Richards.

I'm not trying to knock Richards, I'm really not ... he a very very good he's just not a top 3 defensive forward in the league right now, probably not even top 7-10.
Gagne? The guy that JXC has argued all year is a horrible defensive player and won't even be considered for Team Canada? I thought you guys were like soulmates - you agree on everything.

I still disagree that he regressed at all. See my post in your post mortem thread.

Out of curiosity, who else would you rank above him if you were compiling a top 10 list of Selke candidates?

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04-28-2009, 06:20 PM
  #30
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I think Mike deserved the nomination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
...Mike would not have been a -4 in the playoff series.
He did have a bad playoff series but, if I'm not mistaken, I believe he was on ice for a few empty net goals. That didn't do him any favors in the +/- department.

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Old
04-28-2009, 06:31 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Gagne? The guy that JXC has argued all year is a horrible defensive player and won't even be considered for Team Canada? I thought you guys were like soulmates - you agree on everything.

I still disagree that he regressed at all. See my post in your post mortem thread.

Out of curiosity, who else would you rank above him if you were compiling a top 10 list of Selke candidates?
Sorry ... JXC and I tend to be the less reactionary fans on this board, BUT we aren't the same person.

I was afraid you were going to ask me for 10.

Let's see.

Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Parise, Kesler, Sharp, Getzlaf, Madden ... well, that's 7. Morrow was hurt this year, or that would be 8. Richards is probably better than guys like Axelsson and Drury defensively, so maybe he is top 10.

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04-28-2009, 06:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Sorry ... JXC and I tend to be the less reactionary fans on this board, BUT we aren't the same person.

I was afraid you were going to ask me for 10.

Let's see.

Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Parise, Kesler, Sharp, Getzlaf, Madden ... well, that's 7. Morrow was hurt this year, or that would be 8. Richards is probably better than guys like Axelsson and Drury defensively, so maybe he is top 10.
I'm disappointed. You just said Gagne should be our Selke candidate and then you didn't even put him in your list!

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04-28-2009, 06:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Sorry, but this is just a joke. Richards turns the puck over more than any other forward on our top 3 lines. This is just the voters voting on the SHG stat, and nothing else.

If Richards could play defense the way Datsyuk can, the Flyers would be in the second round and Mike would not have been a -4 in the playoff series.
Playoffs are not taken into account in the trophy voting.

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04-28-2009, 06:44 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I'm disappointed. You just said Gagne should be our Selke candidate and then you didn't even put him in your list!
Oops. I was going through other teams, and forgot to list Gagne.

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04-28-2009, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Playoffs are not taken into account in the trophy voting.
Well aware of that. Reading comprehension is your friend. I said that if Richards deserved to win over Datsyuk, then the playoff series would have been different. Not 'he sucked in the playoff series, therefore he doesn't deserve the nomination'.

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Old
04-28-2009, 06:47 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Sorry ... JXC and I tend to be the less reactionary fans on this board, BUT we aren't the same person.

I was afraid you were going to ask me for 10.

Let's see.

Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Parise, Kesler, Sharp, Getzlaf, Madden ... well, that's 7. Morrow was hurt this year, or that would be 8. Richards is probably better than guys like Axelsson and Drury defensively, so maybe he is top 10.
Richards is better than the bolded players, you also left out Koivu who could have actually been a candidate.

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04-28-2009, 06:47 PM
  #37
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Well aware of that. Reading comprehension is your friend. I said that if Richards deserved to win over Datsyuk, then the playoff series would have been different. Not 'he sucked in the playoff series, therefore he doesn't deserve the nomination'.
Joe Thornton would remind you that playoff performance and regular season performance often do not reflect each other.

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Old
04-28-2009, 06:49 PM
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Defensive performance is often way more consistent than offensive performance.

And Joe Thornton has less heart than T.O. has humility.

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04-28-2009, 07:28 PM
  #39
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you guys read whats up on tsn.ca, where richards played with both shoulders injured.....that's the definition of guts. If he was underwhelming in the playoffs, there's your reason. Man, wish we had a guy like that. Oh and he should win the selke, he is a beast defensively and adds a physical dimension that datsyuk can only dream of.

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04-28-2009, 07:30 PM
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you guys read whats up on tsn.ca, where richards played with both shoulders injured.....that's the definition of guts. If he was underwhelming in the playoffs, there's your reason. Man, wish we had a guy like that. Oh and he should win the selke, he is a beast defensively and adds a physical dimension that datsyuk can only dream of.
He threw maybe 3-4 of the biggest hits of his life in that short series too.

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04-28-2009, 07:49 PM
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One thing everyone needs to keep in mind, just read any random GDT to see, is how far we as a whole are from objective when critiquing our own players. If we moved this fanbase to Detroit, watched every Wings game and picked apart every single move Datsyuk made, all the while hearing about the great things Richards was doing over in the "other" conference this thread would be a lot different. Picking apart our own players is a hobby here, you have to look at a nomination like this from an outsiders point of view, for the most part they're seeing the good things and not so much of the bad. Not saying Richards is a better defensive player than Datsyuk, just sayin'.

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04-28-2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Sorry ... JXC and I tend to be the less reactionary fans on this board, BUT we aren't the same person.

I was afraid you were going to ask me for 10.

Let's see.

Datsyuk, Zetterburg, Parise, Kesler, Sharp, Getzlaf, Madden ... well, that's 7. Morrow was hurt this year, or that would be 8. Richards is probably better than guys like Axelsson and Drury defensively, so maybe he is top 10.
even Richards' and Getzlaf's agent(same one) called Richards the better defensive player. And there's no way I'd put Parise and Sharp above him at this point. Maybe guys like Koivu, Pahlsson, and Neidermeyer

And like GKJ said voting is done before the playoffs.

I don't think Richards is a top 3 "shutdown" player in the league, but that isn't the definition of the Selke.


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Old
04-28-2009, 09:42 PM
  #43
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Richards is the best penalty killer among forwards, that being said he's not the best defensive forward. It may come eventually, but he's not there yet.

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04-28-2009, 10:28 PM
  #44
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Mark my words, Giroux will be our top two way forward in three to four years

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04-28-2009, 10:35 PM
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Mark my words, Giroux will be our top two way forward in three to four years
he actually reminds me a lot of Datsyuk with the way he strips players of the puck

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04-28-2009, 10:54 PM
  #46
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Mark my words, Giroux will be our top two way forward in three to four years
He doesn't need to be. But it'll be disappointing if he's not our best offensive player in that time.

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04-28-2009, 11:01 PM
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He doesn't need to be. But it'll be disappointing if he's not our best offensive player in that time.
Really?

I wouldn't be disappointed if JVR led the way offensively within the next few years.

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04-28-2009, 11:06 PM
  #48
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Really?

I wouldn't be disappointed if JVR led the way offensively within the next few years.
Fair enough, but I'm basing it on the bar that's been set by their performances this year. JVR has a long way to go just to hold Giroux's jock at this point.

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04-28-2009, 11:25 PM
  #49
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Fair enough, but I'm basing it on the bar that's been set by their performances this year. JVR has a long way to go just to hold Giroux's jock at this point.
I think we should hold off on this stuff...similar to Carter, I'm expecting a slow development curve with JVR. Giroux is flashly and has a lot going for him, but JVR has a different toolbox that we'll get to see beginning next year it sounds like.

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04-29-2009, 09:53 AM
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I think we should hold off on this stuff...similar to Carter, I'm expecting a slow development curve with JVR. Giroux is flashly and has a lot going for him, but JVR has a different toolbox that we'll get to see beginning next year it sounds like.
I'm just not excited about JVR. Never really was. Giroux's always impressed me more.

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