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Everything you need (and more than you'd want) to know about sticks

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Old
04-30-2009, 07:41 PM
  #76
Gunnar Stahl 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spjon25 View Post
Okay quick question here. I really like the Warrior Smyth Curve which has a lie of 4 (according to them). Is that a true lie of 4, or what is it like really? That blade sits flat on the ice for me, and the toe does not ride up very much
its not really a 4. im guessing but its probably like a 5

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04-30-2009, 09:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
It makes it easier to saucer passes, and go top shelf and way over the net by accident. The trick is to turn your wrists over more to keep the follow through down and you won't shoot too high.
yeah, I noticed that with the slap I either get right at the top corner or 2 feet high. The wrist shot is either top corner or 2 inches above. I will probably switch back to a different curve because the snap and slap are a little unpredictable

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04-30-2009, 09:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
its not really a 4. im guessing but its probably like a 5
I have tried sticks that have a lie of 5 like the Forsberg and Heatley curve and they tend to wear more on the heel of the blade. Now that it seems like they are going to stop making the Smyth curve, I had better stock up

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05-01-2009, 12:08 AM
  #79
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All you need to know about 1 piece sticks is you will spend thousands of dollars on them, they will break on passes, they will break when you have a huge 1 timer set up, the manufacturers will discontinue your favorite curve and you'll buy more of them.

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05-01-2009, 02:44 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
All you need to know about 1 piece sticks is you will spend thousands of dollars on them, they will break on passes, they will break when you have a huge 1 timer set up, the manufacturers will discontinue your favorite curve and you'll buy more of them.
Only ever had one break on me, although a few wore out and I had to retire them...

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05-01-2009, 08:07 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
All you need to know about 1 piece sticks is you will spend thousands of dollars on them, they will break on passes, they will break when you have a huge 1 timer set up, the manufacturers will discontinue your favorite curve and you'll buy more of them.
I use a 2 piece composite ... I switched to them in December from wood sticks / aluminum shafts with wood blades.

I must say I've broken only ONE blade and it happened on a onetimer but not because I shot it properly. I caught it too far up on the toe and made an off balance misfire.

I must say I am never going back to wood or anything else, composites are the deal double fahshizzle.

I also do NOT trust one piece sticks yet as whenever I play with people and they shoot a hard shot or take a hard pass they lean on their blade to see if it broke. it happens a lot and quite hoinestly they are a waste of money until they do not break am,ong players that can actually play.

I don't care about joe schmoe from Cocamo who can't shoot and boasting about how long his composite has lasted without breaking. Not directed at anyone in this thread or anything so no offense, just speaking in general. I shoot very hard and beat the crap out of sticks ... my composite blades are a little chipped and war damaged but not broken. They hold together extremely well.

I should add I have broken a few wood blades over the year misfiring one timers as well so don't go by my breaking one that way.

These one piece sticks breaking as easily as they do just receiving a hard pass are a joke though. no thanks .... let me know when they don't do that and I MAY get one.

But seriously the 2 piece offers just about the same thing ... I mean how fussy can someone be?

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05-01-2009, 08:33 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spjon25 View Post
I have tried sticks that have a lie of 5 like the Forsberg and Heatley curve and they tend to wear more on the heel of the blade. Now that it seems like they are going to stop making the Smyth curve, I had better stock up
Yeeesh man, how much do you lean over when you skate? Whatever works I guess but a warrior 4 lie Isnt actually a 4 as far as i know. Also a forsberg and smyth patterns are not even close to being similar so the lie might be similar but thats about it

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05-01-2009, 10:33 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
I use a 2 piece composite ... I switched to them in December from wood sticks / aluminum shafts with wood blades.

I must say I've broken only ONE blade and it happened on a onetimer but not because I shot it properly. I caught it too far up on the toe and made an off balance misfire.

I must say I am never going back to wood or anything else, composites are the deal double fahshizzle.

I also do NOT trust one piece sticks yet as whenever I play with people and they shoot a hard shot or take a hard pass they lean on their blade to see if it broke. it happens a lot and quite hoinestly they are a waste of money until they do not break am,ong players that can actually play.

I don't care about joe schmoe from Cocamo who can't shoot and boasting about how long his composite has lasted without breaking. Not directed at anyone in this thread or anything so no offense, just speaking in general. I shoot very hard and beat the crap out of sticks ... my composite blades are a little chipped and war damaged but not broken. They hold together extremely well.

I should add I have broken a few wood blades over the year misfiring one timers as well so don't go by my breaking one that way.

These one piece sticks breaking as easily as they do just receiving a hard pass are a joke though. no thanks .... let me know when they don't do that and I MAY get one.

But seriously the 2 piece offers just about the same thing ... I mean how fussy can someone be?
Composite sticks don't break by passing and by shooting(within reason), they break with slashes. What happens is when you hack or get hacked? The stick chips and can begin a hairline crack... then when you shoot or pass, the stick loads up, pressure builds on the already fractured stick and SNAP.

If you are really slamming your stick into the ice, instead of shooting "through" the ice not only are you wasting energy but you're doing damage to your stick. It's a fine line. You'll notice some guys, at any level, will break a lot of sticks and some won't.

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05-01-2009, 04:34 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
Yeeesh man, how much do you lean over when you skate? Whatever works I guess but a warrior 4 lie Isnt actually a 4 as far as i know. Also a forsberg and smyth patterns are not even close to being similar so the lie might be similar but thats about it
In my experience, the warrior 4 is about Easton 4.75 or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBLfan View Post
Composite sticks don't break by passing and by shooting(within reason), they break with slashes. What happens is when you hack or get hacked? The stick chips and can begin a hairline crack... then when you shoot or pass, the stick loads up, pressure builds on the already fractured stick and SNAP.

If you are really slamming your stick into the ice, instead of shooting "through" the ice not only are you wasting energy but you're doing damage to your stick. It's a fine line. You'll notice some guys, at any level, will break a lot of sticks and some won't.
Perfectly stated. SLASHES BREAK STICKS. Everyone who complains about sticks constantly breaking has fallen into 1 of 2 branches, 1) poor, very poor shot technique or 2) slashing guys and taking slashes non stop. Sometimes, sticks are badly manufactured and break, like the s17s did right when they got released, but that is rare.

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05-01-2009, 05:49 PM
  #85
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I have the first-gen retail S17, I actually got it a few months before it became available at retail. I didn't really like it so I've only used it for coaching, so it hasn't taken any real slashes... just shots and passes. It's still in perfect shape.

Goes to show that even the sticks with the reputation of horrible durability don't really break on passing and shooting alone.

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05-01-2009, 09:22 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBLfan View Post
Composite sticks don't break by passing and by shooting(within reason), they break with slashes. What happens is when you hack or get hacked? The stick chips and can begin a hairline crack... then when you shoot or pass, the stick loads up, pressure builds on the already fractured stick and SNAP.

If you are really slamming your stick into the ice, instead of shooting "through" the ice not only are you wasting energy but you're doing damage to your stick. It's a fine line. You'll notice some guys, at any level, will break a lot of sticks and some won't.
My mechanics are awesome and i do not break sticks .... never have really.

I was talking about guys I play with who receive a hard pass and give their blade a weight test after they receive it. Just reporting what I see often when playing.

Nobody with a straight face can tell me that composite blades on one piece sticks don't break in odd manners sometimes. They do i've seen it meeseff.

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05-01-2009, 09:46 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
My mechanics are awesome and i do not break sticks .... never have really.

I was talking about guys I play with who receive a hard pass and give their blade a weight test after they receive it. Just reporting what I see often when playing.

Nobody with a straight face can tell me that composite blades on one piece sticks don't break in odd manners sometimes. They do i've seen it meeseff.
Yeah, sometimes. But to me, sometimes is pretty rare. I've known a few HUGE guys who had shots in the 90 mph range, that would destroy any and all sticks at any flex range, but beside that, it's quite rare except with people who do a ton of slashing. And when blades do appear to break from receiving a pass, it's probably because they've been worn down to nothing after 6 or 7 months of 4 times a week use, just my experience though.

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05-01-2009, 10:29 PM
  #88
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I broke an Easton Stealth Gaborik by passing the puck to a teammate. Not a hard pass, a simple break out pass. It was about the 3rd time I had used the stick. It's not about technique, it's about these companies shipping out bad batches of sticks to make money. For $150 I expect the stick to built perfectly, with no flaws or hair lines. Easton Stealths and Easton SL's I broke regularly, all other sticks I've onwed I never had a problem with breaking. Now that these guys are charging over $200 for a stick it should not only perform great but it should be durable, otherwise why the price increase?

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05-01-2009, 11:02 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
My mechanics are awesome and i do not break sticks .... never have really.

I was talking about guys I play with who receive a hard pass and give their blade a weight test after they receive it. Just reporting what I see often when playing.

Nobody with a straight face can tell me that composite blades on one piece sticks don't break in odd manners sometimes. They do i've seen it meeseff.
They DO break in "odd" manners... but it's not because of the "odd situation" 95%** of the time, it's what's happened to the stick previously that started the "odd breakage." You ever see a guy lean into a stick to see how far it flexes? That can easily cause an early demise to a OPS... Including that stick you bought from your LHS that someone did "the flex test" 2 days earlier.

**95% is obviously an estimated number, it's probably less. Manufacturing defects do happen, that's why there are warranties

Now, one thing I didn't really touch on is that I'm referring to high-end sticks. I've split a few low-end sticks because they're not made to flex as much as higher-end sticks. You can literally hear the fiberglass cracking when you shoot. Those very well may break from shooting, depending on the flex and your strength/weight/technique.

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05-01-2009, 11:06 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I broke an Easton Stealth Gaborik by passing the puck to a teammate. Not a hard pass, a simple break out pass. It was about the 3rd time I had used the stick. It's not about technique, it's about these companies shipping out bad batches of sticks to make money. For $150 I expect the stick to built perfectly, with no flaws or hair lines. Easton Stealths and Easton SL's I broke regularly, all other sticks I've onwed I never had a problem with breaking. Now that these guys are charging over $200 for a stick it should not only perform great but it should be durable, otherwise why the price increase?
Often high-end sticks are made to perform, not be durable. Sticks like the Easton ST are heavier and more durable. As I said before, these "flex testers" can kill many sticks bought by unknowing other people... and what sticks do these guys like to flex? The expensive high-end sticks.

Again, it could very well be your technique adding to the problem. Some people have a technique that is harder on sticks, Ovechkin is a perfect example of this. In some cases, it's bad form. In some, it's not ideal form but it works very well. I know a guy that destroys sticks left and right, he's under 150 and under 6' tall. The only sticks that have held up well for him was the Easton ST and the NBH one95.

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05-01-2009, 11:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TBLfan View Post
They DO break in "odd" manners... but it's not because of the "odd situation" 95%** of the time, it's what's happened to the stick previously that started the "odd breakage." You ever see a guy lean into a stick to see how far it flexes? That can easily cause an early demise to a OPS... Including that stick you bought from your LHS that someone did "the flex test" 2 days earlier.

**95% is obviously an estimated number, it's probably less. Manufacturing defects do happen, that's why there are warranties

Now, one thing I didn't really touch on is that I'm referring to high-end sticks. I've split a few low-end sticks because they're not made to flex as much as higher-end sticks. You can literally hear the fiberglass cracking when you shoot. Those very well may break from shooting, depending on the flex and your strength/weight/technique.
I just know what I see ... the guys on my team check their blades because they break them once in a while and do not trust them all the time after they have either intercepted a hard pass or took a huge slapshot.

If yours don't do that then God bless. Mine don't either ... I'm using two piece composites and have had NO troubles with normal durability. I've never used a one piece composite stick.

I am certainly no expert and won't state I am some kind of know-it-all because people like that suck and irritate my keester to no end.

My OPINION is what I have stated and it is what I believe. I respect yours but disagree with it.


Last edited by Hockeyfan68: 05-01-2009 at 11:48 PM.
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05-02-2009, 12:04 AM
  #92
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...but do you really believe that a stick is going to break from a normal shooting process, what it's strategically designed for over taking skate blades, slashes, contact with the boards and idiots over-flexing sticks in the store? I'm not doubting that you see sticks break from seeming odd circumstances but you have to realize how much abuse sticks take in just one shift of hockey. Imagine the unflexed fibres in a hockey stick takes a slash, it flexes slightly to absorb the shock and may chip or crack from the force on a small portion of a stick. Then the stick, with a chip or fracture(a weak point) flexes, putting strain on the fibres of the stick and SNAP. Have you played baseball with a wood bat? You can break it and have it remain in one-piece... believe me, after it fractures it's a LOT easier to break, you can actually break that wood bat with your bare hands.

On the last home game of the regular season I was at a Lightning game, Ovechkin took a slash and drew a penalty. I noticed he just went to his point position after the call, not to the bench. I told someone with me to watch Ovechkin, his next shot the stick is going to blow up. The next shot he took was a slap shot from the point and sure enough, the stick ended up in two. I'm not a psychic, I just know that the biggest reasons for stick breakage is taking slashes.

I'm not pretending I know-it-all but I am very well versed in hockey equipment and the trends in hockey equipment. I respect your opinion but I think you need to look at more evidence. I think upon looking at the trends you'd realize that it's rather rare for a manufacturing defect or shooting/passing in-itself to break a composite stick.

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05-02-2009, 12:17 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by TBLfan View Post
...but do you really believe that a stick is going to break from a normal shooting process, what it's strategically designed for over taking skate blades, slashes, contact with the boards and idiots over-flexing sticks in the store? I'm not doubting that you see sticks break from seeming odd circumstances but you have to realize how much abuse sticks take in just one shift of hockey. Imagine the unflexed fibres in a hockey stick takes a slash, it flexes slightly to absorb the shock and may chip or crack from the force on a small portion of a stick. Then the stick, with a chip or fracture(a weak point) flexes, putting strain on the fibres of the stick and SNAP. Have you played baseball with a wood bat? You can break it and have it remain in one-piece... believe me, after it fractures it's a LOT easier to break, you can actually break that wood bat with your bare hands.

On the last home game of the regular season I was at a Lightning game, Ovechkin took a slash and drew a penalty. I noticed he just went to his point position after the call, not to the bench. I told someone with me to watch Ovechkin, his next shot the stick is going to blow up. The next shot he took was a slap shot from the point and sure enough, the stick ended up in two. I'm not a psychic, I just know that the biggest reasons for stick breakage is taking slashes.

I'm not pretending I know-it-all but I am very well versed in hockey equipment and the trends in hockey equipment. I respect your opinion but I think you need to look at more evidence. I think upon looking at the trends you'd realize that it's rather rare for a manufacturing defect or shooting/passing in-itself to break a composite stick.
In your opinion .... which I clearly stated is not mine.

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05-02-2009, 01:12 AM
  #94
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Yes, in my opinion the laws of physics apply in hockey.

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05-02-2009, 11:10 AM
  #95
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Lol, I'm 145lbs, and use a 65 flex.

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05-02-2009, 12:08 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
I just know what I see ... the guys on my team check their blades because they break them once in a while and do not trust them all the time after they have either intercepted a hard pass or took a huge slapshot.

If yours don't do that then God bless. Mine don't either ... I'm using two piece composites and have had NO troubles with normal durability. I've never used a one piece composite stick.

I am certainly no expert and won't state I am some kind of know-it-all because people like that suck and irritate my keester to no end.

My OPINION is what I have stated and it is what I believe. I respect yours but disagree with it.
To be honest, unless you've used one you aren't able to accurately speak on behalf of it's durability. Maybe the guy was chasing raccoons out of his attic with it earlier.....maybe his wife uses it to leverage the mower out of the shed....maybe his kids like to use it a spring board.

I'd argue, the constant leaning on the stick to check it actually hurts it. I'd further argue the reason they are doing that it because of the sound a composite can make in those situations. I've heard that sound enough to check my own stick and ask others if they had broken their stick on that play. Very rarely has the stick actually been broken, just sounds like it has.

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05-02-2009, 02:13 PM
  #97
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Yes, in my opinion the laws of physics apply in hockey.
As do mine.

I'll have the last word, not you ... this is the last word in my dictionary ... "ZYGOTE"

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05-02-2009, 02:20 PM
  #98
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To be honest, unless you've used one you aren't able to accurately speak on behalf of it's durability. Maybe the guy was chasing raccoons out of his attic with it earlier.....maybe his wife uses it to leverage the mower out of the shed....maybe his kids like to use it a spring board.

I'd argue, the constant leaning on the stick to check it actually hurts it. I'd further argue the reason they are doing that it because of the sound a composite can make in those situations. I've heard that sound enough to check my own stick and ask others if they had broken their stick on that play. Very rarely has the stick actually been broken, just sounds like it has.
I'm pretty certain I specified what my team mates do with theirs often by testing the blade often and that I have never owned one and specifically proclaim not to be a know-it-all expert.

I reported what I saw and have seen for a few years now playing hockey which influenced my decision to go with a 2 piece composite which seem to be a lot more durable. I never feel the need to test my blade often like guys on the team do.

if they were so durable and only broke when getting slashed at why do these guys check them in warm ups and just after receiving a hard pass?

That was all I was saying.

It is clear some people are going to defend their spending $200 for a stick and praise them to be gifts from the Gods and the best things since sliced bread when they clearly break easier than people admit.

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05-02-2009, 02:24 PM
  #99
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Anyone can break any stick by overflexing it and doing other stupid stuff. Composites are made to be durable for actual play in hockey and are 99% of the time or more, but people being idiotic can defeat any manufacturers well intended or designed product.

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05-02-2009, 02:32 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
Anyone can break any stick by overflexing it and doing other stupid stuff. Composites are made to be durable for actual play in hockey and are 99% of the time or more, but people being idiotic can defeat any manufacturers well intended or designed product.
True. I just see a lot of blade testing during things like pre game warmup, shinny hockey after taking a slapshot or one timer.

The testing had nothing to do with being slashed or what have you. That was my main point ... the blade test happens often enough for me not to try one out yet.

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