HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

NHL's case

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-22-2004, 10:27 AM
  #26
West
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 691
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
I think the owners $31m is a front. Its a dream situation for Bettman, and its a base point for scaring the NHLPA.
I would agree that the $31m is a dream solution to the owners problems.

The problem is that a team would need to have $48m in revenue for that to eqeal 65% of team revenues (based on other leagues/nhl doc) which is still a high percentage of total revenues. Also from the nhl doc it's pretty safe to assume that about a third of the NHL teams don't generate that kind of revenue.

So even if the NHL get's it's dream deal about a third of the NHL teams would still need some sort of revenue sharing to hit the cap and maintain a reasonable profit.

Also using the NHL's numbers $31 million is 50% of revenues (although I agree that this is likely just a bargining ploy) which would give the NHL players the worst deal in pro sports.

Just to clarify my point has never been that the owners don't need a new CBA or that there should be no salary cap just that without a very real (30%+) revenue sharing that the NHLPA does have a point that a salary cap is a no go issue. So if the owners are really serious about getting a deal done that has to be a given.

Given the aging population (young people spend more money on sports), the fact the NHL won't get as much TV money as before, and that in most markets tickets are overpriced and the trouble baseball has had bouncing back in non-traditional markets (or in other words Canada). I'd almost recommend that the NHLPA sign to a hard $31 cap with 50% revenue sharing among teams.

All the things above also make me wonder if $31m isn't very close to what the owners actually consider their best offer.

p.s. As the NHLPA I'd sign a 50% revenue sharing between teams with a dollar to dollar tax staring at $40m tommorrow and count myself lucky.


Last edited by West: 09-22-2004 at 11:14 AM.
West is offline  
Old
09-22-2004, 04:31 PM
  #27
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
Detroits 1990s core is burnt out. They built it the right way originally but have been propping it up for years. While there is some new talent coming through (Zetts, Dats,Fisch) its not enough to maintain the teams chances. Holland believes it needs outside help.

Here is a list off the top of my head of players that Detroit has signed/played as UFAs and/or older players picked up from other teams as salary dumps (using Detroits fiscal advantage to gain players).

Hasek, Joseph, Hull, Schneider, Hatcher, Lucky Luc Robitaille, Chelios, Lang, Whitney, Thomas, Wooley, Krupp, Duchesne, Olausson.

That's not including siging their own old core UFAs to very generous terms weaker teams couldn't match. Something Detroit doesn't have to worry about and fiscally responsible teams do.

Hasek-Detroit ave up mopre than fair value: a 1st round pick and their 7th all time leading playoff scorer.

Joseph-Toronto offered him more than Detroit did.

Schneider-Avery is going to be decnet. Also a couple picks, and he wasn't a rental, he had 2 years left when they acquired him.

Hatcher-no one else ofered him anything, including Dallas. detroit also had an advantage beacsue he's from here.

Robitialle-took less money to come here.

Hull-took less money, and 3 other "selfish players" deferred money so he could sign.

Chelios wanted out of Chicago. He would've retired after the 99 season if he wasn't traded. Not a rental.

Lang-jury's still out, but we gave up a real good prospect and a 1st rounder. Definitely didn't steal him.

Thomas-was more or less retired, signed in November, anybody could've had him.

Wooley wasn't a rental. We got him in November, Buffalo wasn't even using him. Again, anybody could've had him. And he still makes less than $1 million.

Krupp-a mistake the Red Wings paid for.

Duchesne-brought on as defensive depth. Detroit didn't outbid anyone for him.

Olausson-again basically retired, anybody could have had him.

You're right though, Detroit has been able to maintain its core. Its something they, nor anyone else could do under a cap. Its impossible.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
09-22-2004, 09:03 PM
  #28
djhn579
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Hasek-Detroit ave up mopre than fair value: a 1st round pick and their 7th all time leading playoff scorer.
Detroit did not give up more than fair value. Hasek threatened to retire if he wasn't traded to Detroit or St. Louis, and further stipulated that we couldn't demand too much in trade. I think he said we couldn't get more than one 1st round draft pick and we couldn't take a major roster player (that would have hurt his chances to win the cup...). Buffalo's hands were tied, and then your 7th all time leading scorer did nothing here but pout. We could have got much better than that if Hasek didn't threaten to retire.

djhn579 is offline  
Old
09-23-2004, 01:00 PM
  #29
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
Detroit did not give up more than fair value. Hasek threatened to retire if he wasn't traded to Detroit or St. Louis, and further stipulated that we couldn't demand too much in trade. I think he said we couldn't get more than one 1st round draft pick and we couldn't take a major roster player (that would have hurt his chances to win the cup...). Buffalo's hands were tied, and then your 7th all time leading scorer did nothing here but pout. We could have got much better than that if Hasek didn't threaten to retire.
A 1st rounder and one of the great clutch players of the decade is more than fiar. If he would've retired, you would've gotten nothing.

Kozlov never had any problems in Detroit, and I haven't heard of any he's had in Atlants, so maybe his pouting had more to do with the Sabres than with him.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
09-23-2004, 09:51 PM
  #30
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 19,921
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Hasek-Detroit ave up mopre than fair value: a 1st round pick and their 7th all time leading playoff scorer.

Joseph-Toronto offered him more than Detroit did.

Schneider-Avery is going to be decnet. Also a couple picks, and he wasn't a rental, he had 2 years left when they acquired him.

Hatcher-no one else ofered him anything, including Dallas. detroit also had an advantage beacsue he's from here.

Robitialle-took less money to come here.

Hull-took less money, and 3 other "selfish players" deferred money so he could sign.

Chelios wanted out of Chicago. He would've retired after the 99 season if he wasn't traded. Not a rental.

Lang-jury's still out, but we gave up a real good prospect and a 1st rounder. Definitely didn't steal him.

Thomas-was more or less retired, signed in November, anybody could've had him.

Wooley wasn't a rental. We got him in November, Buffalo wasn't even using him. Again, anybody could've had him. And he still makes less than $1 million.

Krupp-a mistake the Red Wings paid for.

Duchesne-brought on as defensive depth. Detroit didn't outbid anyone for him.

Olausson-again basically retired, anybody could have had him.

You're right though, Detroit has been able to maintain its core. Its something they, nor anyone else could do under a cap. Its impossible.

Illitch is happy to trade picks and prospects for other teams salary dumps. Detroit has been selling its soul to prolong a dying core. And that is their choice to make, good luck to them its worked well enough. Certainly did a better job than the Rangers. How many 1st rounders and high picks have they dumped for older high earning players other teams wanted to rid of?


How much of the teams that won in 96 core is still there and still core?

SERGEI FEDOROV
BRENDAN SHANAHAN
VYACHESLAV KOZLOV
STEVE YZERMAN
MARTIN LAPOINTE
IGOR LARIONOV
LARRY MURPHY
NICKLAS LIDSTROM
KIRK MALTBY
DARREN MCCARTY
DOUG BROWN
KRIS DRAPER
VIACHESLAV FETISOV
JOE KOCUR
TOMAS SANDSTROM
VLADIMIR KONSTANTINOV
JAMIE PUSHOR
MIKE VERNON
TOMAS HOLMSTROM
CHRIS OSGOOD
BOB ROUSE
TIM TAYLOR
AARON WARD

me2 is offline  
Old
09-23-2004, 10:03 PM
  #31
djhn579
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
A 1st rounder and one of the great clutch players of the decade is more than fiar. If he would've retired, you would've gotten nothing.

Kozlov never had any problems in Detroit, and I haven't heard of any he's had in Atlants, so maybe his pouting had more to do with the Sabres than with him.
For argueably one of the top 2 goaltenders in the league at the time, that was nothing compared to what they would have gotten for Hasek if the Sabres could have traded him to any team in the league.

djhn579 is offline  
Old
09-23-2004, 10:11 PM
  #32
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
For argueably one of the top 2 goaltenders in the league at the time, that was nothing compared to what they would have gotten for Hasek if the Sabres could have traded him to any team in the league.
So a non-CBA related problem then.

When Buffalo develops a team as good as Detroit did, they will find themselves able to take advantage of the same opportunities.

thinkwild is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.