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Czechoslovakia Elite league top 7 point Scoring 1965-66 - 1981-82

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05-03-2009, 09:52 PM
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Dark Shadows
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Czechoslovakia Elite league top 7 point Scoring 1965-66 - 1981-82

Well, since I have access to a bit more data now, figured "spread the wealth".

*"according to sihr"

I picked rather arbitrary start and end dates for the table. The start of which when the CSSR started to become a force in International Hockey, challenging the USSR, and the end date being when many of the best had jumped to the NHL(Novy, Stastny brothers, Hlinka, etc)

Season#1#2#3#4#5#6#7
1965-66 Jaroslav Holik(69) Jozef Golonka(56) Vaclav Nedomansky(54) Jan Klapac(52) Milan Koks(52) Jan Starsi(49) Josef Cerny(47)
1966-67 Vaclav Nedomansky(60) Jaroslav Holik(59) Jan Klapac(52) Jan Havel(45) Jozef Golonka(38) Jiri Dolana(34) Stanislav Pryl(34)
1967-68 Jan Havel(53) Vaclav Nedomansky(46) Jiri Kochta(44) Frantisek Pospisil(42) Vladimir Martinec(39) Jaroslav Holik(39) Jozef Golonka(37)
1968-69 Jan Suchy(56) Jaroslav Holik(52) Vaclav Nedomansky(48) Josef Cerny(44) Jozef Golonka(44) Jaroslav Jirik(43) Jiri Holik(39)
1969-70 Jiri Kochta(52) Josef Cerny(46) Jan Suchy(44) Jan Havel(44) Vaclav Nedomansky(42) Jan Hrbaty(41) Jiri Holik(40)
1970-71 Vaclav Nedomansky(46) Jan Havel(45) Richard Farda(44) Frantisek Pospisil(42) Vladimir Martinec(39) Ivan Hlinka(38) Bedrich Brunclik(38)
1971-72 Vaclav Nedomansky(56) Ivan Hlinka(54) Jaroslav Holik(42) Vladimir Martinec(42) Frantisek Pospisil(40) Jan Klapac(39) Josef Cerny(34)
1972-73 Vladimir Martinec(49) Julius Haas(46) Milan Novy(44) Vaclav Nedomansky(39) Jiri Holik(37) Jiri Novak(36) Ivan Hlinka(35)
1973-74 Vaclav Nedomansky(74) Milan Novy(54) Ivan Hlinka(54) Vladimir Martinec(53) Julius Haas(52) Jaroslav Holik(46) Richard Farda(43)
1974-75 Ivan Hlinka(78) Milan Novy(68) Marian Stastny(63) Josef Ulrych(55) Jiri Novak(53) Vladimir Martinec(45) Eduard Novak(44)
1975-76 Milan Novy(57) Vladimir Martinec(51) Ivan Hlinka(43) Eduard Novak(37) Frantisek Cernik(36) Bohuslav Ebermann(35) Josef Ulrych(32)
1976-77 Milan Novy(89) Vincent Lukac(74) Eduard Novak(63) Bohuslav Ebermann(60) Ivan Hlinka(58) Jan Klapac(55) Vladimir Martinec(53)
1977-78 Milan Novy(75) Ivan Hlinka(71) Jaroslav Pouzar(62) Vincent Lukac(61) Marian Stastny(56) Jiri Bubla(56) Peter Stastny(53)
1978-79 Marian Stastny(74) Milan Novy(56) Peter Stastny(55) Vincent Lukac(52) Anton Stastny(51) Ladislav Svozil(45) Eduard Novak(43)
1979-80 Vincent Lukac(67) Milan Novy(66) Jaroslav Pouzar(62) Anton Stastny(60) Jiri Novak(53) Peter Stastny(52) Ladislav Svozil(50)
1980-81 Milan Novy(80) Jiri Lala(62) Jindrich Kokrment(61) Vincent Lukac(58) Darius Rusnak(58) Miroslav Frycer(57) Ivan Hlinka(52)
1981-82 Milan Novy(67) Igor Liba(53) Jindrich Kokrment(53) Frantisek Cernik(51) Jiri Lala(51) Vladimir Ruzicka(49) Jiri Sejba(42)
I will also post the golden stick award winners for each year starting in 1969 when it appeared.
# 1969 Jan Suchý (Jihlava)
# 1970 Jan Suchý (Jihlava)
# 1971 František Pospíšil (Kladno)
# 1972 František Pospíšil (Kladno)
# 1973 Vladimír Martinec (Pardubice)
# 1974 Jiří Holeček (Sparta Prague)
# 1975 Vladimír Martinec (Pardubice)
# 1976 Vladimír Martinec (Pardubice)
# 1977 Milan Nový (Kladno)
# 1978 Ivan Hlinka (Litvinov)
# 1979 Vladimír Martinec (Pardubice)
# 1980 Peter Šťastný (Bratislava)
# 1981 Milan Nový (Kladno)
# 1982 Milan Nový (Kladno)

I will follow this up with a post that has their top 3 WC and Olympic scorers through the same years

* #22 "Vladimír Martinec Jihlava 42 20 62"
Should be added for the 78-79 season


Last edited by Dark Shadows: 10-30-2010 at 08:59 AM.
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05-04-2009, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
Well, since I have access to a bit more data now, figured "spread the wealth".

I picked rather arbitrary start and end dates for the table. The start of which when the CSSR started to become a force in International Hockey, challenging the USSR, and the end date being when many of the best had jumped to the NHL(Novy, Stastny brothers, Hlinka, etc)

Season#1#2#3#4#5#6#7
1965-66 Jaroslav Holik(69) Jozef Golonka(56) Vaclav Nedomansky(54) Jan Klapac(52) Milan Koks(52) Jan Starsi(49) Josef Cerny(47)
1966-67 Vaclav Nedomansky(60) Jaroslav Holik(59) Jan Klapac(52) Jan Havel(45) Jozef Golonka(38) Jiri Dolana(34) Stanislav Pryl(34)
1967-68 Jan Havel(53) Vaclav Nedomansky(46) Jiri Kochta(44) Frantisek Pospisil(42) Vladimir Martinec(39) Jaroslav Holik(39) Jozef Golonka(37)
1968-69 Jan Suchy(56) Jaroslav Holik(52) Vaclav Nedomansky(48) Josef Cerny(44) Jozef Golonka(44) Jaroslav Jirik(43) Jiri Holik(39)
1969-70 Jiri Kochta(52) Josef Cerny(46) Jan Suchy(44) Jan Havel(44) Vaclav Nedomansky(42) Jan Hrbaty(41) Jiri Holik(40)
1970-71 Vaclav Nedomansky(46) Jan Havel(45) Richard Farda(44) Frantisek Pospisil(42) Vladimir Martinec(39) Ivan Hlinka(38) Bedrich Brunclik(38)
1971-72 Vaclav Nedomansky(56) Ivan Hlinka(54) Jaroslav Holik(42) Vladimir Martinec(42) Frantisek Pospisil(40) Jan Klapac(39) Josef Cerny(34)
1972-73 Vladimir Martinec(49) Julius Haas(46) Milan Novy(44) Vaclav Nedomansky(39) Jiri Holik(37) Jiri Novak(36) Ivan Hlinka(35)
1973-74 Vaclav Nedomansky(74) Milan Novy(54) Ivan Hlinka(54) Vladimir Martinec(53) Julius Haas(52) Jaroslav Holik(46) Richard Farda(43)
1974-75 Ivan Hlinka(78) Milan Novy(68) Marian Stastny(63) Josef Ulrych(55) Jiri Novak(53) Vladimir Martinec(45) Eduard Novak(44)
1975-76 Milan Novy(57) Vladimir Martinec(51) Ivan Hlinka(43) Eduard Novak(37) Frantisek Cernik(36) Bohuslav Ebermann(35) Josef Ulrych(32)
1976-77 Milan Novy(89) Vincent Lukac(74) Eduard Novak(63) Bohuslav Ebermann(60) Ivan Hlinka(58) Jan Klapac(55) Vladimir Martinec(53)
1977-78 Milan Novy(75) Ivan Hlinka(71) Jaroslav Pouzar(62) Vincent Lukac(61) Marian Stastny(56) Jiri Bubla(56) Peter Stastny(53)
1978-79 Marian Stastny(74) Milan Novy(56) Peter Stastny(55) Vincent Lukac(52) Anton Stastny(51) Ladislav Svozil(45) Eduard Novak(43)
1979-80 Vincent Lukac(67) Milan Novy(66) Jaroslav Pouzar(62) Anton Stastny(60) Jiri Novak(53) Peter Stastny(52) Ladislav Svozil(50)
1980-81 Milan Novy(80) Jiri Lala(62) Jindrich Kokrment(61) Vincent Lukac(58) Darius Rusnak(58) Miroslav Frycer(57) Ivan Hlinka(52)
1981-82 Milan Novy(67) Igor Liba(53) Jindrich Kokrment(53) Frantisek Cernik(51) Jiri Lala(51) Vladimir Ruzicka(49) Jiri Sejba(42)
I have to say that I'm just slightly confused. I found this list of top point scorers (well, it's just a list someone has posted on a Finnish hockey board):

Quote:
1969 Jan Suchy 54 (28+26)
1970 Jiri Kochta 52 (25+27)
1971 Vaclav Nedomansky 55 (37+18)
1972 Vaclav Nedomansky 56 (35+21)
1973 Milan Novy 56 (39+17)
1974 Vaclav Nedomansky 74 (46+28)
1975 Ivan Hlinka 78 (36+42)
1976 Milan Novy 57 (35+22)
1977 Milan Novy 89 (59+30)
1978 Milan Novy 75 (40+35)
1979 Marian Stastny 74 (39+35)
1980 Vincent Lukac 67 (43+24)
1981 Milan Novy 80 (32+48)
1982 Milan Novy 67 (29+38)
The lists have a different winner in 1973 (Martinec, Novy), and there are a few differences in the points totals; from the 1973-74 season on, however, they are identical.

I had the impression that Vladimir Martinec, for example, never won the scoring title (points) in the Czechoslovak Elite League, only the goal-scoring title in 1979???

BTW, if we look only at the statistics, Milan Novy seems to be VERY underrated player indeed.

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05-04-2009, 12:59 AM
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Jaroslav Holik seems underrated and Suchy's '68-'69 season is crazy.

Thanks for the info.

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05-04-2009, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
I have to say that I'm just slightly confused. I found this list of top point scorers (well, it's just a list someone has posted on a Finnish hockey board):



The lists have a different winner in 1973 (Martinec, Novy), and there are a few differences in the points totals; from the 1973-74 season on, however, they are identical.

I had the impression that Vladimir Martinec, for example, never won the scoring title (points) in the Czechoslovak Elite League, only the goal-scoring title in 1979???

BTW, if we look only at the statistics, Milan Novy seems to be VERY underrated player indeed.
Ill just post a screenshot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Czechoslovakia Elite leaguey.jpg‎ (108.3 KB, 83 views)

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05-04-2009, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Jaroslav Holik seems underrated and Suchy's '68-'69 season is crazy.

Thanks for the info.
Jaroslav Holik was really good, but his brother, Jiri Holik was even better. He is by far the best Czech left wing ever.

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05-04-2009, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
Ill just post a screenshot.
Thanks, and it's not like I'm doubting it, but unfortunately again, many player biographies and such seem to have used those 'wrong statistics'.

Well, better to let it go, I guess. Martinec won't probably lose any sleep over it.

All in all, the Top player awards - when compared with the scoring stats - generally seem to make more sense than the Soviet ones.

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05-04-2009, 08:49 AM
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Okay, I now noticed that 'your statistics' have the (1973) 'regular season' numbers and 'playoff numbers'* (on the right) separately, and in 'my stats' they are added together; i.e. Novy 44 + 12 = 56, and Martinec's would be 49 + 6 = 55.

This is a storm in a teacup, I know!

* I don't even pretend to know, how the Czechoslovak league worked


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05-04-2009, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Thanks, and it's not like I'm doubting it, but unfortunately again, many player biographies and such seem to have used those 'wrong statistics'.

Well, better to let it go, I guess. Martinec won't probably lose any sleep over it.

All in all, the Top player awards - when compared with the scoring stats - generally seem to make more sense than the Soviet ones.
In fairness, its hard to judge the Soviet stats vs top player awards, given how poorly they were archived before the 80's.

Its hard to say how much consideration voters either country give all around play and defensive acumen, etc

If they added playoffs to the stats you are looking at, I am not sure how to look at that. The site I view separates them.

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05-04-2009, 10:50 AM
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Nice work.

Now that the Russian and Czech leagues are all "sorted out", so to speak, is there anything else that really warrants a good historical breakdown like this?

German league? Finnish? Swedish, maybe?

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05-04-2009, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
In fairness, its hard to judge the Soviet stats vs top player awards, given how poorly they were archived before the 80's.

Its hard to say how much consideration voters either country give all around play and defensive acumen, etc

If they added playoffs to the stats you are looking at, I am not sure how to look at that. The site I view separates them.
Apparently only in 1971 and -73 (1969-82). Weird, weird. There could of course be seasons where the top scorer didn't play (or didn't score) in the playoffs, so the numbers would be identical just the same.


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05-04-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Nice work.

Now that the Russian and Czech leagues are all "sorted out", so to speak, is there anything else that really warrants a good historical breakdown like this?

German league? Finnish? Swedish, maybe?
After I compile the WC/Canada Cup and Olympics scoring, likely the Swedes are the next target.

What really interests me is the teams whose top end talent could give Canada and the Soviets a good run for their money before the 90's.

That Website you directed me to was worth every penny Seventies


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05-04-2009, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
After I compile the WC/Canada Cup and Olympics scoring, likely the Swedes are the next target.

What really interests me is the teams whose top end talent could give Canada and the Soviets a good run for their money before the 90's.

That Website you directed me to was worth every penny Seventies
Yeah.... I know.

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05-04-2009, 03:00 PM
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Jaroslav Holik was really good, but his brother, Jiri Holik was even better. He is by far the best Czech left wing ever.
That's the thing. He's always the other Holik. His son is more famous and his brother's a legend. But he's better than being the Marty Howe of the family.

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05-04-2009, 03:59 PM
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Which web site? sihr?

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05-04-2009, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
After I compile the WC/Canada Cup and Olympics scoring,
Pelletier and Houda have a great book on the former - and the scoring totals by team are lined up in there.

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05-04-2009, 04:11 PM
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Which web site? sihr?
Affirmative.

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05-04-2009, 04:15 PM
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Then let me give another positive testimonial. I joined a while back and it's a must-have web site for hockey history buffs.

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05-05-2009, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
Apparently only in 1969, -71, -73 (1969-82). Weird, weird. There could of course be seasons where the top scorer didn't play (or didn't score) in the playoffs, so the numbers would be identical just the same.
71 and 73 were the only seasons where playoffs were played. Don't know about 69 though, apparently there were no playoffs : http://hockey365.celeonet.fr/hockeya...vaquie1969.htm

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05-05-2009, 04:55 AM
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71 and 73 were the only seasons where playoffs were played. Don't know about 69 though, apparently there were no playoffs : http://hockey365.celeonet.fr/hockeya...vaquie1969.htm
Okay, thanks.

And that 1969 was my mix-up. The figures are different, alright, but it is actually in the stats that Jekyll provided where Suchy has 2 points more (56 to 54).

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05-05-2009, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
BTW, if we look only at the statistics, Milan Novy seems to be VERY underrated player indeed.
Novy is underrated, though the knock on him in Europe is that he was a disappointing international performer who often wilted under physical pressure. During that period, the Soviets feared and hated Vlad Martinec a lot more than Novy.

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05-05-2009, 08:31 AM
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All in all, the Top player awards - when compared with the scoring stats - generally seem to make more sense than the Soviet ones.
There is still a curious lack of correlation at times between scoring and MVP voting (the mostly complete results of which can be found here, season-by-season, in the archives section). It is curious that Novy won only a single Golden Stick during the real golden age of Czech hockey, and didn't pick up his 2nd and 3rd until after the other Czech greats had either declined (Martinec, the Holiks) or left for North America (Peter Stastny, Nedomansky long before). As far as recognizeable names go, only Hlinka was left for competition in the Czech league after 1980.

Jiri Holik gets MVP voting love well out of whack with his scoring finishes, as well. There is definitely more than just scoring going into the Golden Stick voting outcomes, and like the Soviets, the "Golden Era" Czech voters also took defensemen into consideration in a way that Hart voters have not done since, well...the 70's.

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05-05-2009, 10:16 AM
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Does anyone know anything about Josef Augusta (stats)according to the sihr site he played for Dukla Jihlava from 1964-1982 and was a member of the national team in 69,74,75,78, olympic team 76 and canada cup team 76.You can find his tournament stats but nothing for league seasons.

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05-06-2009, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Novy is underrated, though the knock on him in Europe is that he was a disappointing international performer who often wilted under physical pressure. During that period, the Soviets feared and hated Vlad Martinec a lot more than Novy.
Yep, and it showed on the ice sometimes. Wasn't it Dr. Jan Starsi (the other Team CSSR coach in the late Seventies) who said something like, "why is it that every time the Czechoslovaks are giving the Soviets a tough game, Vladimir Martinec ends up in hospital"? Obviously that's an exaggeration, but there's at least one known nasty incident (1974 WC in Helsinki).

Novy had a brilliant Canada Cup in 1976 (though he scored only 1 point more than Martinec, for instance); very timely goal-scoring there.


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05-06-2009, 02:53 AM
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As far as recognizeable names go, only Hlinka was left for competition in the Czech league after 1980.
I don't know, I kinda thought that Jiri Lala looked like a true superstar in the making in the early '80s; certainly in the World Championships, and in the 1981 Canada Cup as well.

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05-06-2009, 12:04 PM
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I'm not out to dispute anyone.I noticed on the hockey archives website they have Josef Vimmer as the # 3 goal scorer with 32 goals for the 1966/67 season.His name isn't even listed on the sihr site for that season.Even if he only had 2 assists he would of been tied for 7th place in scoring that season.Can anyone clarify this for me.

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