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Old
05-04-2009, 09:47 PM
  #1
FLYERSFAN18
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Philly-Detroit

To Detroit:
Joffrey Lupul
Matt Carle

To Philly:
Niklas Kronwall

This give detroit some scoring depth after possibly losing Hossa. They can also pair carle with a stay at home veteran defenseman.

Philly gets a good hitter and and solid defenseman, since they already have so many puck movers.

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Old
05-04-2009, 09:51 PM
  #2
ilovetheflyers8
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I don't think Detroit really needs either Lupul or Carle.

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Old
05-04-2009, 09:52 PM
  #3
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt714 View Post
No, no, and no.
I expect to hear more of this. Do they have 6 million in cap space lying around that they aren't telling us about?

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05-04-2009, 09:53 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
I don't think Detroit really needs either Lupul or Carle.
Nor wants them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
I expect to hear more of this. Do they have 6 million in cap space lying around that they aren't telling us about?
I can only tell you by private message.

Gary doesn't allow us to divulgate such information.

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Old
05-04-2009, 10:06 PM
  #5
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Ugh. Maybe in our dreams. I wish acquiring Kronwall was so easy.

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Old
05-04-2009, 11:00 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Ugh. Maybe in our dreams. I wish acquiring Kronwall was so easy.
Add this years first at a minimum before Detroit considers. That is me being nice. Carle and Lupul are salary dumps to the DRW and are bottom half borderline roster players.

Carle = Overpaid 3rd pair guy on the wings
Lupul= Overpaid 3rd line guy on the wings

In reality your looking at

Kronwall

For

JVR + low 1st or maybe a 2nd.

Yes kronwall is that expensive. And yes he is signed at 3M.

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Old
05-04-2009, 11:03 PM
  #7
solo16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
This give detroit some scoring depth after possibly losing Hossa. They can also pair carle with a stay at home veteran defenseman.
Ya because Detroit really needs more Offensive Defensemen. Even sans Kronwall we have lidstrom and Rafi (two of the best in the league).

We then have
Ericsson (100mph slap shot)
Meech (great playmaker offensive guy but nothing else)
Lebda (great breakout decent defense)
Kindl (superstar package if he puts it together, getting closer to nhl)
Smith (offensive 1st rounder still in college)

and about 7 other offensive defensemen who are high risk picks.

Detroit is pretty much the last team to advertise a lousy offensive defensemen by suggesting you pair him with a stay at home guy. I bet Brad Stuart (we dont use in an offensive role, though he has the 1st round talent) has more offensive talent then carle.

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Old
05-04-2009, 11:07 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Add this years first at a minimum before Detroit considers. That is me being nice. Carle and Lupul are salary dumps to the DRW and are bottom half borderline roster players.

Carle = Overpaid 3rd pair guy on the wings
Lupul= Overpaid 3rd line guy on the wings

In reality your looking at

Kronwall

For

JVR + low 1st or maybe a 2nd.

Yes kronwall is that expensive. And yes he is signed at 3M.
Okay...I was with you when you said Detroit doesn't consider this, but then you opened your mouth and the contents that came out were about the same as every other uneducated member of HF.

Carle is paid the same price as most SECOND pairing defensemen. That is what he is.
Lupul is NOT overpaid for a 50 point winger. I've already proved he's market value.

And no you're not getting JVR or a 1st for your garbage. We are not you're salary dump team.

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Old
05-04-2009, 11:13 PM
  #9
phlocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Add this years first at a minimum before Detroit considers. That is me being nice. Carle and Lupul are salary dumps to the DRW and are bottom half borderline roster players.

Carle = Overpaid 3rd pair guy on the wings
Lupul= Overpaid 3rd line guy on the wings

In reality your looking at

Kronwall

For

JVR + low 1st or maybe a 2nd.

Yes kronwall is that expensive. And yes he is signed at 3M.

ROFL!!! So you're telling us that the Wings wouldn't trade Kronwell straight up for someone like JVR, Kane, Hodgson, etc??? I think you should put the crack pipe down and yes, that's about the same quality type player that JVR is STILL viewed at by people in the NHL.

I know, this must mean that Hartnell is worth a top 10 pick this year or a top 5 from one of the previous 2 drafts plus a 1st this year. Do you hear that everyone, that's now the bar for players like this. You had better be ready to part with a top 5 pick and your 1st in one of the deepest and strongest drafts in the last 20 years. Bend over and be ready to take it from behind if you want a payer like that. I mean you just CAN'T go out and offer them 5 mil on your own when they are UFA's and keep your assets too now can you.

Kronwell and Hartnell may be more valuable to their teams than others are willing to REALISTICALLY give up to get them but get real, if we were offered a pick in the top 5 this year I'd pack Hartnells bags for him. I love having him but get real, he's not THAT damned important. He's a great role player but he'll NEVER be a potential franchise player. He'll NEVER be an allstar (unless he's on a really really crappy team or like the Habs fans did this year they stuff the ballot box and vote in 4 guys that shouldn't even be considered). JVR, Kane, Hodgson and other similar type players all have the potential to be franchise players and future all-stars.

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Old
05-04-2009, 11:40 PM
  #10
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Solo16 sounds like he has a little homer-itis.


Wait...he is on the wings, the helps his value. I mean....they're the Red Wings. Their fifth and sixth defensemen are both first pairing guys on any other team in the league.

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Old
05-04-2009, 11:56 PM
  #11
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what motivation do the Wings have to send out a piece of the team they won the cup with last year?

JVR has proven nothing in the NHL.

Regardless of what he is worth to the Flyers, that same value isn't there with the Wings. To get Kronwall (who only makes 3 mil) you will have to severly overpay. There is no logical reason to move him.

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Old
05-05-2009, 12:13 AM
  #12
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maybe instead of lupul we can send briere and carle. Briere might lift his no movement clause, and when healthy he can put up a lot of points, especially with the right line mates around him.

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05-05-2009, 12:22 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
maybe instead of lupul we can send briere and carle. Briere might lift his no movement clause, and when healthy he can put up a lot of points, especially with the right line mates around him.
Selling the farm to feed the cows.

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Old
05-05-2009, 04:37 AM
  #14
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Lupul, Briere and Carle make way too much money to play for the Wings.

I can't say that I know the needs of Philly, but the top priority for the Wings is.. well, cap space. We may lose Hossa because of the salary cap, adding players like the 3 mentioned above does not help that, it just adds problems down the road.

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Old
05-05-2009, 06:05 AM
  #15
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if detroit was willing to make this deal i'd do it in a second... kronwall is way better than carle and lupul could easily be replaced

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Old
05-05-2009, 09:00 AM
  #16
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No way Detroit does this. Each guy on that team is vital to their success, especially on their blue line.

I expect Lupul being traded for the rights of a UFA to a team with so much cap room, 4.25mil for 25 goals a season doesn't look too bad

But as for the people saying Carle is bad, or a salary dump, you're wrong. Watching him this season, he did a lot of little things to keep the puck in his control and eventually get it out of the zone. Not to mention he's what, 25? Keep him around and let him develope, he's already pretty good. Always room for improvement though!

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Old
05-05-2009, 09:20 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
ROFL!!! So you're telling us that the Wings wouldn't trade Kronwell straight up for someone like JVR, Kane, Hodgson, etc??? I think you should put the crack pipe down and yes, that's about the same quality type player that JVR is STILL viewed at by people in the NHL.

I know, this must mean that Hartnell is worth a top 10 pick this year or a top 5 from one of the previous 2 drafts plus a 1st this year. Do you hear that everyone, that's now the bar for players like this. You had better be ready to part with a top 5 pick and your 1st in one of the deepest and strongest drafts in the last 20 years. Bend over and be ready to take it from behind if you want a payer like that. I mean you just CAN'T go out and offer them 5 mil on your own when they are UFA's and keep your assets too now can you.

Kronwell and Hartnell may be more valuable to their teams than others are willing to REALISTICALLY give up to get them but get real, if we were offered a pick in the top 5 this year I'd pack Hartnells bags for him. I love having him but get real, he's not THAT damned important. He's a great role player but he'll NEVER be a potential franchise player. He'll NEVER be an allstar (unless he's on a really really crappy team or like the Habs fans did this year they stuff the ballot box and vote in 4 guys that shouldn't even be considered). JVR, Kane, Hodgson and other similar type players all have the potential to be franchise players and future all-stars.
I think you're overrating Kane, JVR and Hodgson. Their potential is pretty much elite 2nd liners, or good 1st liners, but no way they're franchise players.

You don't trade a 50 point d-man who hits like a truck and can play good defense, straight up for one of those prospects.

Also, Kronwall has quite a bit more value than Hartnell.

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Old
05-05-2009, 09:35 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Add this years first at a minimum before Detroit considers. That is me being nice. Carle and Lupul are salary dumps to the DRW and are bottom half borderline roster players.

Carle = Overpaid 3rd pair guy on the wings
Lupul= Overpaid 3rd line guy on the wings

In reality your looking at

Kronwall

For

JVR + low 1st or maybe a 2nd.

Yes kronwall is that expensive. And yes he is signed at 3M.
great player even better contract.

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Old
05-05-2009, 09:43 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Can 2 View Post
I think you're overrating Kane, JVR and Hodgson. Their potential is pretty much elite 2nd liners, or good 1st liners, but no way they're franchise players.

You don't trade a 50 point d-man who hits like a truck and can play good defense, straight up for one of those prospects.

Also, Kronwall has quite a bit more value than Hartnell.
Kronwall definitely has more value then Hartnell but both are similar in their roles at their respective positions. But I think you're underrating guys like JVR and Kane.

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Old
05-05-2009, 09:58 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
Kronwall definitely has more value then Hartnell but both are similar in their roles at their respective positions. But I think you're underrating guys like JVR and Kane.
Kane yes since he proved something, but JVR has not.

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05-05-2009, 10:37 AM
  #21
solo16
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Okay...I was with you when you said Detroit doesn't consider this, but then you opened your mouth and the contents that came out were about the same as every other uneducated member of HF.

Carle is paid the same price as most SECOND pairing defensemen. That is what he is.
Lupul is NOT overpaid for a 50 point winger. I've already proved he's market value.

And no you're not getting JVR or a 1st for your garbage. We are not you're salary dump team.
I am quoting you but this is addressed to each of the three consecutive posters who decided to make a fool of themselves calling me out.

1st. To the person who said the flyers are not detroits salary dumpster???? Did you read the post. Kronwall is a 50+ point 3rd position defensemen who hits and plays good defense. SIGNED at 3M. Frankly if he got 1st powerplay position he would get even more points. If that is a salary dump i am just speechless. Its quite a bargain contract and hence his high trade value.

Carle makes 3.5M and is no where near as good as Kronwall... So yes I consider him a salary dump. Hes a decent 2nd pair guy sure but on Detroit he is inferior to Lidstrom,Rafi, Stuart, Ericsson. That sticks him on the third pair. At 3.5M a third pair guy is a salary dump.

Lupul signed at 4.25M. If we wanted to pay a "2nd line winger" (he wouldnt be one on detroit even minus hossa) 4.25M why wouldnt we just sign Hudler. More points lower cost and frankly more talent. Lupul is overrated. Hes a poor second line forward who frankly will only draw interest from bottom dwelling teams at that price. So Also a Salary dump to detroit.

So how is it that two players, whose roll on a contending team would be relatively minor being paid for a major role, have any where near the trade value of Kronwall.

A stanley cup winning 2nd pair guy. Runs a second powerplay that is better than most teams first. Hits like a truck. Is signed cheep as helllll. Ya its not homeritius its im calling out the fact that no respectable team wants Phillys garbage in exchange for a key piece.

GTFO

If you want Kronwall its going to Cost you JVR+ a decent pick (negotiable). TBH I was going to mention Hartnell but I figured you wouldn't be interested in moving him. Great player not worth as much as Kronwall but unlike the players you mentioned has significant value. TBH if im Philly id consider moving JVR for Kronwall. I mean your losing a great potential forward but your getting a great defensemen with a friendly cap hit, who probably would be your Number 1 dman. If Kronwall had a 6 or 7M contract I would agree with your points but frankly at that salary he has significant trade value. I mean if you really want we could talk about Giroux instead .

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Old
05-05-2009, 10:39 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by AC Le Rock View Post
No way Detroit does this. Each guy on that team is vital to their success, especially on their blue line.

I expect Lupul being traded for the rights of a UFA to a team with so much cap room, 4.25mil for 25 goals a season doesn't look too bad

But as for the people saying Carle is bad, or a salary dump, you're wrong. Watching him this season, he did a lot of little things to keep the puck in his control and eventually get it out of the zone. Not to mention he's what, 25? Keep him around and let him develope, he's already pretty good. Always room for improvement though!
TBH clear I have no issue with Carle. I dont think hes a salary dump generally. But he is a Salary dump to Detroit. We have better defensemen under contract and Carle makes too much to be a third pair guy. IMO hes a 4th/5th defensemen on most contending teams.

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Old
05-05-2009, 01:32 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
TBH clear I have no issue with Carle. I dont think hes a salary dump generally. But he is a Salary dump to Detroit. We have better defensemen under contract and Carle makes too much to be a third pair guy. IMO hes a 4th/5th defensemen on most contending teams.
You ever seen that episode of south park where everyone drives hybrids and farts into cups just to smell it?

Nobody cares. We all understand it's a bad trade and you're certainly not getting JVR for Kronwall...THAT'S what I called a salary dump.

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Old
05-05-2009, 02:30 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
ROFL!!! So you're telling us that the Wings wouldn't trade Kronwell straight up for someone like JVR, Kane, Hodgson, etc??? I think you should put the crack pipe down and yes, that's about the same quality type player that JVR is STILL viewed at by people in the NHL.
I didn't bother reading the rest of your post but I assume it's along the same line as this first paragraph.

But yeah, Kronwall, a 50 point star dman signed to a great contract is worth more than an unproven top prospect. And no, I wouldn't trade a 28 year old stud dman for a prospect and probably wouldn't trade him for a prospect and a first.

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Old
05-05-2009, 02:31 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
This give detroit some scoring depth after possibly losing Hossa.
Detroit didn't have any problems scoring last season without Hossa. Of course they did have the all-powerful Dallas Drake.

Detroit will probably lose Hossa but Kronwall was a 50-point defenseman this season. Carle has the potential to be there but why risk it if you're Detroit? Lupul doesn't fit in well with Detroit's finesse, puck control system. He's got decent hands but he's more of a garbage goal guy and Detroit already has enough of those.

I'd much rather see Detroit tap into the system and go with Ville Leino or maybe even Justin Abdelkader (one more year in the AHL is probably better for him though) rather than take a shot with these two and put themselves in a tight cap position. Then in two to three years, hopefully someone like Cory Emmerton, Dick Axelsson, maybe even a later round pick like Jan Mursak or Gustav Nyquist will be ready to step into that type of role. With Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen locked up for so long there's no rush to replace the potential loss of Hossa.

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