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Derek Roy to Ottawa

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Old
05-04-2009, 06:03 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
i disagree, spezza's contract is a negative here,
Was it a negative before Hartsburg tanked our breakout and ruined our offense... and then the whole of HF started calling our players useless garbage?

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Old
05-04-2009, 06:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Ottawa doesn't have enough to get Roy. Buffalo wouldn't take on any of the big contracts Ottawa has (no Spezza, no Heatley) - obviously Alfie isn't going anywhere...there's barely any value on the rest of the roster or in the prospect pool to get Buffalo to listen.
It would be easy if Ottawa intended on ****** their farm system again. Deal would be made overnight.

But we're not, so it's not.

EDIT: And I don't really think I need to parade the blue chip prospects we have (what few of them), look them up if you need to.

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05-04-2009, 06:22 PM
  #28
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I'll trade Smith, Kelly, and Emery's buyout for Derek Roy on the condition that the Sabres have to keep Roy's cap hit.

Other than that, I don't want him.

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Old
05-04-2009, 06:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatley15 View Post
You asked, and he's right. It would have to be a bigger deal and starts with Spezza. Straight up does not make sense. Spezza's contract is what diminishes his value (and only very, very slightly for the team that is a player away and can fit him under its cap). Buffalo and Ottawa both are more than just a player away, so there isn't a deal that makes sense between the two for Roy.

Someone will have to make a ridiculous offer to Buffalo to get Roy. Scoff at stats if you wish, but a 26-year-old center who has averaged 27-44-71 over the past three years and who will make an average of $4.25M a year for the next four years is not going anywhere.

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05-04-2009, 06:31 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Was it a negative before Hartsburg tanked our breakout and ruined our offense... and then the whole of HF started calling our players useless garbage?
Im not saying Spezza is useless garbage, so I dont know where that comes from. I'm merely saying that based on actual production Spezza makes 3M more a season for relatively equal production and in my view Spezza has better wingers. That makes that additional 3M a negative

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05-04-2009, 08:18 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 504Heater View Post
EDIT: And I don't really think I need to parade the blue chip prospects we have (what few of them), look them up if you need to.
Erik Karlsson

I wasn't counting Lee or Elliott since they're pretty much regulars.

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Old
05-04-2009, 08:57 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
Im not saying Spezza is useless garbage, so I dont know where that comes from. I'm merely saying that based on actual production Spezza makes 3M more a season for relatively equal production and in my view Spezza has better wingers. That makes that additional 3M a negative
This year is our worst year in 11 years.... in the rest of the post-lockout years, Spezza has scored at a 95+ point rate. Have fun with your other inferior centers.

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Old
05-04-2009, 09:21 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
i disagree, spezza's contract is a negative here,

Spezza for Roy straight up is pretty even, in fact an argument could be made that with Heater and Alfredson to finish for him he might outscore Spezza at considerably less cost. it might actually help the Senators be able to get Jbo
Hmm good point, wasn't thinking that, if he was with them, he could end up with a possible 80-100 points

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Old
05-04-2009, 09:26 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
This year is our worst year in 11 years.... in the rest of the post-lockout years, Spezza has scored at a 95+ point rate. Have fun with your other inferior centers.
straight up!

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Old
05-04-2009, 10:43 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
This year is our worst year in 11 years.... in the rest of the post-lockout years, Spezza has scored at a 95+ point rate. Have fun with your other inferior centers.
considering Spezza has never put up 95 points in a season thats quite disingenuous, and having two snipers on his wing has to help. Derek Roy hasnt had wingers that good. in the typical year Heatley and Alfy will combine for 80-85 goals while Vanek and Stafford are good for 60-65, not to mention Roy is much more defensively responsible. so thats your difference right there

If you swap the two, and I dont know why Buffalo would, the only difference would probably be the 3M the senators would save on the cap for 4 Years. I honestly cant think of a center in this league with 2 better wingers, year in and year out, than Spezza's, though Mike Cammalleri and Iginla if they stay together might come close.

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05-05-2009, 01:39 PM
  #36
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Sign Comrie for 1 year deal, trade Comrie and Schubert and/or a pick for Roy.

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05-05-2009, 01:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by kohlmanator View Post
Sign Comrie for 1 year deal, trade Comrie and Schubert and/or a pick for Roy.
I'm guessing you didn't read the rest of the thread. And suggesting a sign-and-trade with a lesser center...?

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Old
05-05-2009, 02:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kohlmanator View Post
Sign Comrie for 1 year deal, trade Comrie and Schubert and/or a pick for Roy.

And then we can get Spezza!

For: Paetsch, McArthur, and/or a pick!


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Old
05-05-2009, 03:55 PM
  #39
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I think if you asked 30 GM's around the league, you'd be hard pressed to find too many that would take Roy over Spezza and that's with current contracts considered. One is viewed as Elite, the other isn't really.

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05-05-2009, 10:07 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
Im not saying Spezza is useless garbage, so I dont know where that comes from. I'm merely saying that based on actual production Spezza makes 3M more a season for relatively equal production and in my view Spezza has better wingers. That makes that additional 3M a negative
That comes from post-after-post-after-post this season of people devaluing our players because we spent the first half of the season in our own zone attempting a CHL level breakout.

Their production isn't relatively equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
This year is our worst year in 11 years.... in the rest of the post-lockout years, Spezza has scored at a 95+ point rate. Have fun with your other inferior centers.
No, actually... in the other years Spezza has averaged a 34-71-105 point pace per 82 games. And that's an average of 3 years, In Roy's best year he was on pace for 85 points (20 points less).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
considering Spezza has never put up 95 points in a season thats quite disingenuous, and having two snipers on his wing has to help. Derek Roy hasnt had wingers that good. in the typical year Heatley and Alfy will combine for 80-85 goals while Vanek and Stafford are good for 60-65, not to mention Roy is much more defensively responsible. so thats your difference right there

If you swap the two, and I dont know why Buffalo would, the only difference would probably be the 3M the senators would save on the cap for 4 Years. I honestly cant think of a center in this league with 2 better wingers, year in and year out, than Spezza's, though Mike Cammalleri and Iginla if they stay together might come close.
Spezza hasn't cracked 95 points a season because he has missed a lot of time due to injury.

Roy is better defensively than Spezza?

Vanek is a quality player who has averaged 40 goals a year for the past 3 years. Surely, he must cancel out one of the big-3 wingers.

If you swapped the two... you'd find out why a 73 point season is hugely disappointing for Spezza and why a 70 point season is perfectly acceptable for Derek Roy.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:31 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
That comes from post-after-post-after-post this season of people devaluing our players because we spent the first half of the season in our own zone attempting a CHL level breakout.

Their production isn't relatively equal.



No, actually... in the other years Spezza has averaged a 34-71-105 point pace per 82 games. And that's an average of 3 years, In Roy's best year he was on pace for 85 points (20 points less).



Spezza hasn't cracked 95 points a season because he has missed a lot of time due to injury.

Roy is better defensively than Spezza?

Vanek is a quality player who has averaged 40 goals a year for the past 3 years. Surely, he must cancel out one of the big-3 wingers.

If you swapped the two... you'd find out why a 73 point season is hugely disappointing for Spezza and why a 70 point season is perfectly acceptable for Derek Roy.
Im not a sabres fan, and to be honest I could care less which center you have, outside of Ottawa Spezza is considered soft and a player that greatly benefits from his wingers. Alfy and Heater average 80-85 goals a season, Vanek and Stafford 60-65.

That 20 points is the is the entire difference between Roy and Spezza. in Spezzas best season he had 92 points Alfy and Heater had 81 goals. in his 2nd best season with 90 points Alfy and Heater had 93 goals.

in Roys best 2 seasons of 80 and 71 points, Vanek and Stafford had 52 and 60 goals

so spezza s wingers had 29 and 33 more goals but Spezza had only 12 and 19 more points than Roy. so how can you not admit that the difference has nothing to do with who Spezza was passing the puck to ? only an idiot wouldnt say that they had more than a little something to do with it

I'm freakin in a wheelchair, and if you give me Alfy and Heater as wingers and Id look pretty damn good too. this is no knock on Jason either, he still has to get them the puck, but you still have to be honest about the guys hes got or youre being very unfair to Alfy and Heater.

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Old
05-05-2009, 11:47 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
That comes from post-after-post-after-post this season of people devaluing our players because we spent the first half of the season in our own zone attempting a CHL level breakout.

Their production isn't relatively equal.



No, actually... in the other years Spezza has averaged a 34-71-105 point pace per 82 games. And that's an average of 3 years, In Roy's best year he was on pace for 85 points (20 points less).



Spezza hasn't cracked 95 points a season because he has missed a lot of time due to injury.

Roy is better defensively than Spezza?

Vanek is a quality player who has averaged 40 goals a year for the past 3 years. Surely, he must cancel out one of the big-3 wingers.

If you swapped the two... you'd find out why a 73 point season is hugely disappointing for Spezza and why a 70 point season is perfectly acceptable for Derek Roy.
voice of reasonning

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Old
05-06-2009, 12:40 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by heatley15 View Post
voice of reasonning
oh so you think Alfy and Heater have nothing to do with Spezza's success?

how do you explain Spezza having only 12 and 19 more points than Roy when Alfy and Heater had 29 ad 33 more goals? Especially when better than 80% of Spezza's assists, were scored on goals by Alfy or Heater?

ThaT sound reasoning you speak of just went out in the garbage truck, because either Spezza is making Alfy and Heater better than they really are or Alfy and Heater are making Spezza better, than he really is. You cant have it both ways, The numbers wont support it, otherwise Spezza would have at least 29-33 more assists than Roy a season and not 12 and 19.


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Old
05-06-2009, 12:42 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatley15 View Post
voice of reasonning
You start this thread and turn around just to devalue the player you're trying to trade for.

Roy isn't near Spezza's potential, but in a cap friendly world, Roy is a gem. Spezza is a bonafide 1st line center, while Roy is average. I don't care what anybody says, I would take Spezza 1st, then Roy second.

Both players are regarded highly by their fanbases, moot point. Oh and OP, you won't get Roy on picks or prospects. Your prospects have little to no value, they maybe blue chippers, but they haven't proven anything yet. Wait till there's some progression at the NHL level before commenting.


Last edited by Chainshot: 05-06-2009 at 09:39 AM. Reason: P.A.
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Old
05-06-2009, 01:31 AM
  #45
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To Buf.

Vermette
Fisher
Lee
1st round pick 09

To Ott.

Roy
Sekera

Two of my least favorite sabres players leaving, although both are great players I would love this deal toughen us up a bit eh....

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05-06-2009, 01:33 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by heatley15 View Post
I didnt ask you for stats, contract or the past season stuff...
i simply asked what would it take to get him, player/picks/pospect (trading wise)
sheesh

AND THOSE THINGS THAT HE MENTIONED HELP IDENTIFY WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO GET HIM.

shees

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Old
05-06-2009, 01:37 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by JOHNBOY View Post
To Buf.

Vermette
Fisher
Lee
1st round pick 09

To Ott.

Roy
Sekera

Two of my least favorite sabres players leaving, although both are great players I would love this deal toughen us up a bit eh....
um vermette is on columbus by the way

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Old
05-06-2009, 06:39 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
Im not a sabres fan, and to be honest I could care less which center you have, outside of Ottawa Spezza is considered soft and a player that greatly benefits from his wingers. Alfy and Heater average 80-85 goals a season, Vanek and Stafford 60-65.
Soft, how so?

Perhaps the people outside of Ottawa should watch more games before they comment then. Spezza does a lot of the work on that line... he has so many giveaways because he's usually charged with the entry into the zone, then holds the puck in the zone and sets up the play.

What do these same people think of Derek Roy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
That 20 points is the is the entire difference between Roy and Spezza. in Spezzas best season he had 92 points Alfy and Heater had 81 goals. in his 2nd best season with 90 points Alfy and Heater had 93 goals.

in Roys best 2 seasons of 80 and 71 points, Vanek and Stafford had 52 and 60 goals

so spezza s wingers had 29 and 33 more goals but Spezza had only 12 and 19 more points than Roy. so how can you not admit that the difference has nothing to do with who Spezza was passing the puck to ? only an idiot wouldnt say that they had more than a little something to do with it
You're completely ignoring games played as factor in your calculations, when it is an obvious point to note.

Post-lockout, Spezza's outscored Roy by 20 goals and 82 points in 12 less games over 4 years. Or an average of 6 goals and 26 points per 82 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
I'm freakin in a wheelchair, and if you give me Alfy and Heater as wingers and Id look pretty damn good too. this is no knock on Jason either, he still has to get them the puck, but you still have to be honest about the guys hes got or youre being very unfair to Alfy and Heater.
There's quite a difference between watching Radek Bonk pass to Hossa and seeing Hossa skate end-to-end through the entire opposing team to earn Bonk an assist... compared to watching Spezza do all the work and Heatley touching the puck for maybe 30 seconds a game.

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Old
05-06-2009, 09:55 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Sexytime Explosion View Post
I think people are overating Roy as a player here....Fisher, Karlsson and + ?? Are you ****ing kidding me?
As a third party I was going to suggest the same.

Fisher+ top forward prospect. Roy is a good player and his contract aint so bad.

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05-06-2009, 11:34 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Soft, how so?

Perhaps the people outside of Ottawa should watch more games before they comment then. Spezza does a lot of the work on that line... he has so many giveaways because he's usually charged with the entry into the zone, then holds the puck in the zone and sets up the play.

What do these same people think of Derek Roy?



You're completely ignoring games played as factor in your calculations, when it is an obvious point to note.

Post-lockout, Spezza's outscored Roy by 20 goals and 82 points in 12 less games over 4 years. Or an average of 6 goals and 26 points per 82 games.



There's quite a difference between watching Radek Bonk pass to Hossa and seeing Hossa skate end-to-end through the entire opposing team to earn Bonk an assist... compared to watching Spezza do all the work and Heatley touching the puck for maybe 30 seconds a game.
Spezza is soft it's pretty hard to argue that he isn't, with that said so is Roy. I've never liked the idea of saying a player should be a 95+ point player if they stay healthy for an entire year. Show me you can stay healthy for 82 games and score 95 points and then I'll call you a 95 point player. With that said these teams don't make very good trading partners. They play in the same division and are bitter rivals. As others have said if you're either one of these teams you don't trade with each other unless it's a massive overpayment.

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