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Who would you rather have..Markov or Lecavalier?

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have?
Andrei Markov 209 81.64%
Vincent Lecavalier 47 18.36%
Voters: 256. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2009, 12:45 AM
  #26
MoonlightGraham
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Markov. The end of this season has shown the entire team implodes when he's not there.

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05-06-2009, 12:52 AM
  #27
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Markov... He's a better player.

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05-06-2009, 01:01 AM
  #28
Garo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
I'd rather have Lecavalier playing for the habs than World f...in peace so stop asking
It's very likely both will never happen anyway

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Old
05-06-2009, 01:12 AM
  #29
Miller Time
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markov and it's not even close...

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05-06-2009, 01:13 AM
  #30
Mother Pucker
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Markov's puck moving makes the whole team Lecavalier-esque. Not mentioning his contract being awesomeness. Oh, and, FYI, Lecavalier has two 80+ seasons in his whole career. Markov it is for me.

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05-06-2009, 01:15 AM
  #31
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wow....im surprises lecavalier got as many votes as he did. To those who voted for him, you have no concept of what it takes to win. You start with good goalie, then good defense and then good offense....not the other way around. Getting lecavalier worsens our chances to get the cup.

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05-06-2009, 01:17 AM
  #32
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Is this a serious question?

Markov is a great player....but he would have to be a part of a "package" to get Vin. So it's a crazy question, as every single GM would "rather have" Lecavalier....

I have no connection to either team...so this vote seems very homer heavy....Im sure the same poll would be 60-5 the other way on the TB board...

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05-06-2009, 01:19 AM
  #33
tinyzombies
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I would take Lecavalier for Markov only if we could sign Jaybo and get Komi back (or upgrade).

I know Markov's value, but this team needs a drastic move to get to the next level, even if all our "stars" return next season.

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05-06-2009, 01:20 AM
  #34
Garo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
Is this a serious question?

Markov is a great player....but he would have to be a part of a "package" to get Vin.
Which is why it's not worth it. You don't package top-5ish defencemen.

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05-06-2009, 01:21 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Garo View Post
Which is why it's not worth it. You don't package top-5ish defencemen.
I agree...but thats not the question/poll. It's who would you rather have...and every single GM would say Vin. It would be 32-0...unlike this Habs fan vote...

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05-06-2009, 01:22 AM
  #36
tinyzombies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
I agree...but thats not the question/poll. It's who would you rather have...and every single GM would say Vin. It would be 32-0...unlike this Habs fan vote...
But the question is phrased poorly.

If we swapped Markov for Vinny, we would finish in last place. Our defense is already a problem.

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Old
05-06-2009, 01:24 AM
  #37
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Cups:

Vin: 1
Markov:0

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Old
05-06-2009, 01:24 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
But the question is phrased poorly.
Yeah...I guess...its phrased like a 1-1 trade...

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05-06-2009, 01:26 AM
  #39
Garo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
I agree...but thats not the question/poll. It's who would you rather have...and every single GM would say Vin. It would be 32-0...unlike this Habs fan vote...
But that wasn't really the question. We already have Markov, and it'd be pointless to trade him away in the context of this team.

If both were available, the result would be different, obviously.

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Old
05-06-2009, 01:35 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
Cups:

Vin: 1
Markov:0
You're so far from it all it's not even real. No team can win the cup without puck moving defenseman, but they can without any good centerman. This team without Markov is doomed, even if it was with Lecavalier, Crosby or whoever. Just look how the Penguins sucked without their puck moving-d, Gonchar. Just look at how Tampa sucks without Dan Boyle.

That's right. 09 stats:
Lecavalier: 67 pts
Markov 63 pts.

Do you stil want that 10M$ centerman vs our 5ish M$ D 1st D-man? I hope not.

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05-06-2009, 01:49 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mother Pucker View Post
You're so far from it all it's not even real. No team can win the cup without puck moving defenseman, but they can without any good centerman. This team without Markov is doomed, even if it was with Lecavalier, Crosby or whoever. Just look how the Penguins sucked without their puck moving-d, Gonchar. Just look at how Tampa sucks without Dan Boyle.

That's right. 09 stats:
Lecavalier: 67 pts
Markov 63 pts.

Do you stil want that 10M$ centerman vs our 5ish M$ D 1st D-man? I hope not.
I guess it was the original question...and I see the point of the thread now...."do we put Markov in a package for Vin"...and I can defintely see why not....that shuold have been the thread... as every GM would pick Vin over Markov in a straight pick'em....I took it as picking between the two if you are starting a team from scratch, which really is a no brainer.


As for your post.....Stanely cup winners need front line centres too,...and not all Stanley cups winners need allstar premier puck moving defenceman... dont kid yourself. Sure it helps. You can get lucky with great defence, goaltending or a hot offensive player. Puck moving defenceman aren't then end'all for a cup win...

No team can win without it? 2006 Canes, 2001 Avs, 1996 Avs...many more...


Last edited by JohnnyMapleLeaf: 05-06-2009 at 01:56 AM.
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Old
05-06-2009, 01:57 AM
  #42
tinyzombies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
I guess it was the original question...and I see the point of the thread now...."do we put Markov in a package for Vin"...and I can defintely see why not....that shuold have been the thread... as every GM would pick Vin over Markov in a straight pick'em....I took it as picking between the two if you are starting a team from scratch, which really is a no brainer.


As for your post.....Stanely cup winners need front line centres too,...and not all Stanley cups winners need allstar premier puck moving defenceman... dont kid yourself. Sure it helps. You can get lucky with great defence, goaltending or a hot offensive player. Puck moving defenceman aren't then end'all for a cup win...

No team can win without it? 2006 Canes, 2001 Avs, 1996 Avs...many more...
I'm not sure it's a no-brainer. Top flight defensemen are in short supply.

I would start with Vinny myself though. Imagine Vinny with someone like Brendan Morrow riding shotgun where he didn't have to do all the dirty work?

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Old
05-06-2009, 02:11 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
I guess it was the original question...and I see the point of the thread now...."do we put Markov in a package for Vin"...and I can defintely see why not....that shuold have been the thread... as every GM would pick Vin over Markov in a straight pick'em....I took it as picking between the two if you are starting a team from scratch, which really is a no brainer.


As for your post.....Stanely cup winners need front line centres too,...and not all Stanley cups winners need allstar premier puck moving defenceman... dont kid yourself. Sure it helps. You can get lucky with great defence, goaltending or a hot offensive player. Puck moving defenceman aren't then end'all for a cup win...

No team can win without it? 2006 Canes, 2001 Avs, 1996 Avs...many more...
Yes...no team can win without at least good, puck moving defenseman, otherwise even other teams grinders are going to keep you in your own zone. No elite forward can do 60 mins of getting the puck from his own zone, carry it himself or whatever's left of his wingers or centerman and do the job in the other team's zone. It doesn't work that way. Good puck-moving D can make an AHL team look dangerous in the NHL, thats how it is. I disagree that Vinny vs Markov alone is an easy call for GMs. Most of them would lose sleep over it, but smart ones would choose Markov IMHO.

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05-06-2009, 02:14 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
markov and it's not even close...
This. Markov is an infinite amount of times more important to this team than Lecavalier would be. Switch the two players' contracts around and I'd probably still keep Markov, so it's really not close.

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Old
05-06-2009, 02:24 AM
  #45
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMapleLeaf View Post
I guess it was the original question...and I see the point of the thread now...."do we put Markov in a package for Vin"...and I can defintely see why not....that shuold have been the thread... as every GM would pick Vin over Markov in a straight pick'em....I took it as picking between the two if you are starting a team from scratch, which really is a no brainer.

As for your post.....Stanely cup winners need front line centres too,...and not all Stanley cups winners need allstar premier puck moving defenceman... dont kid yourself. Sure it helps. You can get lucky with great defence, goaltending or a hot offensive player. Puck moving defenceman aren't then end'all for a cup win...

No team can win without it? 2006 Canes, 2001 Avs, 1996 Avs...many more...
Every GM would pick Vinny over Markov?..euhhh..why is that?..
Lecavalier is a big center, but he's only had 2 great seasons, the rest have been pretty average and bad in terms of points.

Markov is slowly becoming recognized as one of the best Dman in the league.

A strong Defense makes the Offense much better.
A strong Offense doesn't make the Defense better.
A bad Defense makes a good Offense worse.

It's as simple as that. I think you got it pretty wrong there, Markov would be picked more often.

I also like to come back on you saying the Avs won without a top D. I used to be a Nordiques fan so I followed the Avs a lot.
In 96, I guess you forgot who Sandis Ozolinsh was, but I used to follow the Avs a lot and he was one of the best offensive D's in his prime.
When the Avs won it in 96, he had 19pts/22GP. He was a very key part to that cup victory.

In 2001, Rob Blake and Ray Bourque..
Blake 19pts 23GP, Bourque had a modest production of 10pts but an HoF like him always had an impact on his team.

In 2006, the year after the lockout, many called it a fluke. Edm and Car didn't make the POs the following year, but they still had a guy like Kaberle that could move the puck pretty decently.

And if you look year after year, you'll see the big majority of the teams that won, had a strong offensively capable D.

Markov over Vinny any day.

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Old
05-06-2009, 03:14 AM
  #46
Miller Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Every GM would pick Vinny over Markov?..euhhh..why is that?..
Lecavalier is a big center, but he's only had 2 great seasons, the rest have been pretty average and bad in terms of points.

Markov is slowly becoming recognized as one of the best Dman in the league.

A strong Defense makes the Offense much better.
A strong Offense doesn't make the Defense better.
A bad Defense makes a good Offense worse.

It's as simple as that. I think you got it pretty wrong there, Markov would be picked more often.

I also like to come back on you saying the Avs won without a top D. I used to be a Nordiques fan so I followed the Avs a lot.
In 96, I guess you forgot who Sandis Ozolinsh was, but I used to follow the Avs a lot and he was one of the best offensive D's in his prime.
When the Avs won it in 96, he had 19pts/22GP. He was a very key part to that cup victory.

In 2001, Rob Blake and Ray Bourque..
Blake 19pts 23GP, Bourque had a modest production of 10pts but an HoF like him always had an impact on his team.

In 2006, the year after the lockout, many called it a fluke. Edm and Car didn't make the POs the following year, but they still had a guy like Kaberle that could move the puck pretty decently.

And if you look year after year, you'll see the big majority of the teams that won, had a strong offensively capable D.

Markov over Vinny any day.
funny how this guy tries to argue that you don't need an elite offensive/puck moving dman to win the cup, and then offers 3 teams from the past 13 years as "evidence"...
even ignoring how wrong he was, one would think that if 10 of the 13 past cup winners DID have that kind of dman, it would be proof that it is vital, not the opposite

as you pointed out, not only was he way off with the Avs, but Kaberle had a break out season that year with the canes... he finished with a 44 point season, and was great for them in the playoffs. He busted his knee the following year, and was never the same afterwards, go figure that without him in the lineup (and the rest of the team almost identical), the canes went from cup winner to out of the playoffs.

on the other side of the coin, maybe he should consider these facts
07 Ducks (winner)- Andy Mcdonald
06 Oilers (7 game series runner up)- Shauwn Horcoff
04 Flames (7 game series runner up)- Craig Conroy
03 Devils (7 game series winner)- Scott Gomez
03 Ducks (7 game series runner up)- Petr Sykora

it's a small and recent sample, but of the 8 teams that reached the cup finals from 2003-2007, 5 of those teams did not have a big name "front line" centre. I guess Gomez could be arguably considered, but with Niedemayer/Stevens on the back end, that devils team clearly was led from the back end.

I'd love to have Lecavalier, but Markov is CLEARLY the more valuable asset to have... for the habs and for any other team in the league that doesn't already have one of the 4-5 other dmen of his caliber.

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Old
05-06-2009, 06:20 AM
  #47
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I didn't and will not vote as I don't believe that we can't get both at the same time.
Exactly

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Old
05-06-2009, 06:34 AM
  #48
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Markov for sure.

Top 5 D-man over Top 15 Forward

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05-06-2009, 07:49 AM
  #49
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Right now this team starts and ends with Markov,if he's traded for Lecavalier Bob better have another deal in place to bring in another type of defenceman that can play like Markov

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05-06-2009, 07:54 AM
  #50
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Next question: Would you rather have Koivu or Lecavalier??

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