If the question was Vinny in his prime vs Markov in his prime(which I think is now personally), then it would be an extremely tough choice but I'd have to choose Vinny in that case, but I don't feel Vinny will ever truly return to form, I don't see him breaking 80pts anytime soon and if he does it certainly wouldn't be with us. (pessimism I know, but I've seen it happen time and time again with players through out my life)
Markov is pretty much going to put up Vinny numbers except as a d-man, that's a valuable commodity in the NHL, especially what with their current contracts, it makes Markov one of the most valuable players in the NHL. A d-man capable of 70+ points who is locked in at 5.5 million, that's something that could yield a teams future imo.
Now Markov's contract is a little bit shorter I'm sure (by now) but it's still definitely an amazing deal.
As per the next question Koivu vs Lecavalier, as I said earlier regarding the other deal, it depends on a lot.
Both players in their prime, Lecavalier all the way, but with current contracts, I'd definitely steer clear of the Vinny deal. It's really hard to say though because of that contract. If we were comparing equivalent contracts and all then it'd be another story. I find Koivu has more value to him making 4-5.5 million then Lecavalier does at his current contract, he may only put out like 70 points tops, is that worth what he's getting paid? As I said, it is pessimism/opinion and all, but I don't see Vinny ever again being a consistently above 80pt guy, I see him as more of a 70-75 type guy max these days. On Montreal like many players, he could even regress so it's hard to say. When comparing a player who is already good on the habs to one who you aren't sure will be, in my case, I'll almost always choose the hab player.
Somebody who plays good on our team says a lot to me. It says that they don't let the media get to them, it says that they love playing for our team, it says that they have heart and they come to play most nights (if not all).
I'd rather a player like that, then somebody who is a question mark in that regard. Say we do trade away a bunch of stuff for Vinny, we effectively do Tampa a favor by taking on his massive contract, and for doing them a favor, we also give them a bunch of stuff as well. Personally I think that is really dumb. Say next year Vinny has a 50-60pt season on Montreal because say, he starts to decline or has an injury, becomes injury prone, whatever. Who are you going to trade him to then? It seems to me like Tampa may want to dangle him as trade bait for a reason, maybe they know something we don't. I wouldn't take the risk is all. I like Markov and I like Koivu. If I can think of three guys that are the face of this franchise it would be Markov, Koivu, Kovalev.
Markov is a great player....but he would have to be a part of a "package" to get Vin. So it's a crazy question, as every single GM would "rather have" Lecavalier....
I have no connection to either team...so this vote seems very homer heavy....Im sure the same poll would be 60-5 the other way on the TB board...
Yes, it's a serious question. I know how many people love Vinny on here..so I just wanted to see what the results would be.
To me, the obvious answer is Markov..but I wasn't too sure what to expect with the poll results.
If I had 2 Markovs, I wouldn't trade one away for Lecavalier.
Same here.
An all star defenceman is much more valuable to a team than an all star forward (barring that his name is either of Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovechkin or can fit in with this group, which Vinny CANNOT by a country mile). There are many more elite level forwards playing with in the NHL any given day than there are elite level defenceman. And I don't really see how one poster can claim that all 30 GM's would take Lecavalier over Markov without even thinking about it. Maybe if it were Crosby, Malkin or Ovechkin... but a defenceman of the nature of Markov doesn't exactly pop up on your radar screen every day.
Wow, I can't believe the amount of SANE comments on this thread, besides the occasional fanboy taking Lecavalier. I was expecting a Vinny love fest on this thread.
Lecavalier at a 7,272 mil cap hit for 11 seasons (until he's 40!!!), with all the health problems he's had, with the bad season he went through, Markov only finished 2-3 points behind him. Tampa not doing well WITH Lecavalier, and the Habs never doing well WITHOUT Markov. Many top flight centermen are better than he is.
VS
Markov, in his prime, without any significant injury in his entire career, 2nd best point producer among ALL Dmen in the league, wants to play here, likes it here, our team looks awful without him, no matter what centermen we would have, at 5,75 for the next two seasons. Not many defensemen are better than he is.
If we are talking present value, there is no question that Markov should be worth more.
Markov by far. He is a top-5 defenseman in the whole league. He might not even have peaked yet which is quite scary.
Lecavalier CAN be a top-5 center in the league but he clearly wasn't this past season. In fact he has regressed ever since his 108 pts season. Could you imagine the reaction if Lecavalier only managed to get 67 points in 77 games as a 1st line center in Montreal? When Koivu had his 71 and 75 points seasons, nobody in the media believed he was a number 1 center. Imagine Lecavalier coming in with those huge expectations only to put up lesser numbers than Koivu...
While LeCavalier would bring more to this team, I didn't vote because the option I wanted wasn't there. I say I rather have BOTH. With one or the other, you have a losing team. You need both to win.
As said previously, LeCavalier's value isn't that high. Big contract, TB with $ problems: the GM will be forced to trade him in a kind of Jagr trade. And Les Canadiens can afford that kind of trade.
Markov. He is the Habs. Our record without him is 3-20-6 since the lockout. We would literally be close to the Washington Capitals of the 1970s in terms of on ice success without Markov.
I guess it was the original question...and I see the point of the thread now...."do we put Markov in a package for Vin"...and I can defintely see why not....that shuold have been the thread... as every GM would pick Vin over Markov in a straight pick'em....I took it as picking between the two if you are starting a team from scratch, which really is a no brainer.
As for your post.....Stanely cup winners need front line centres too,...and not all Stanley cups winners need allstar premier puck moving defenceman... dont kid yourself. Sure it helps. You can get lucky with great defence, goaltending or a hot offensive player. Puck moving defenceman aren't then end'all for a cup win...
No team can win without it? 2006 Canes, 2001 Avs, 1996 Avs...many more...
2001 Avs had Rob Blake and Ray Bourque, 1996 Avs - Sandis Ozolinsh
