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Issues with bad hockey parents!! Help!

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Old
05-06-2009, 10:35 PM
  #1
Grave77digger
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Issues with bad hockey parents!! Help!

(long read sorry, very angry!)

My son is 4.5 years old and is playing in his second set of 8 week learn to play hockey classes. He is by far the smallest and youngest skating with these kids who range from 6 to 12 I would guess. He holds his own, he can skate. Just slower than everyone else. Im really proud of him, before I left for a couple months in Iraq He could barely skate. He would do the skate board push to get himself around the ice. Now that I am home Im shocked and excited by how much he has improved in the months I was away.

I have watched him play 3 times since I have been home and there is one boy in particular who is a bully and pushes him down because he is smaller and punches him in the cage. I laughed it off the first time because boys will be boys... I had no idea his father was telling him to do these things. Today I sat and watched silently from the bleachers this kids overbearing father barking orders to his 6-7 year old while hovering over the glass. As usual this kid keeps knocking over my kid, no big deal. It doesnt bother my boy because he thinks the kid is playing with him. When my son starts knocking over his kid, The father actually starts yelling across the ice for him to punch and elbow my son! I was shocked. He even did the "throw your elbow to his head motion"!!!! I was really upset after that I was upset but still didnt think it worth me saying anything about it.

Im certain this guy had no idea I was in the stands watching him bark orders to his kid to elbow a 4 year old in the head. The father did this "elbow motion" toward my kid a total of 3 times and after the 3rd I had enough. I walked right up to the guy and just stared at him about a foot of space between us. He didnt know who I was before but Im sure from the look on his face he realized it quick. After an awkward couple seconds of a stare down he blurted out that my kid was kicking his son (after they knocked each other down) and "thats how people die out there"... I was very civil and told him my son is 4 years old why would you tell your kid to elbow him in the head 3 separate times. He got defensive and I got angrier. All he coud say was that if I didnt want my kid to get hit then go play basketball. There was more dialog but ill be damned if I can remember.

There was alot of parents at the rink watching there kids and im sure they watched me confront this guy. I said what I had to say to him and followed it up with a very loud "PARENT OF THE YEAR AWARD RIGHT HERE" so that everyone could hear it then turned my back and walked away while he was still talking. A few minutes later I was approached by a mom saying she was so glad I said something to this guy, apperently he has pissed off alot of the parents with his and his sons antics.

I never thought I would be THAT GUY to confront another parent. But that is where the blame lies, not with the child. I am still very angry and will more than likely contact the rink and complain. May just edit this post and mail it to the rink managers.

Any thoughts or opinions? I am still VERY angry about this. I honestly wanted to tear this guys head off for being such a *****. I havnt shaved since I was in Iraq, sporting my Pens playoff beard... I must have looked like the crazed parent and not him.

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05-07-2009, 09:02 AM
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Well, I would say that you started off correctly but it sounds like it escalated a bit too far. As a parent and a coach, I have found that there is nothing wrong with letting a parent or player know that you consider their behaviour unacceptable. What I try to do is keep it quiet the first time I bring it up. Calling someone out in front of others seems to bring out the worst in people especially sporting parents.

Here's what I would do from here on - stay away from the other parent for now. Call over a coach or assistant on the ice and tell them what you are seeing happening on the ice. Let them handle the other boy's behaviour, warn him, maybe remove him from the ice (IMHO they should be watching a little more closely as it is). But remember that it'll take a fair amount for little kids to be hurt while wearing equipment - make sure you are genuinely worried about your kid getting hurt and not just annoyed at the other kid's dad.

If the other parent approaches you, apologize for losing your temper and reiterate that you think his behaviour (not his kid's - important!!) is unaceptable in kid's hockey. If there are like-minded parents around you when this is happening use a voice that can be overheard (he approached you so you are not calling him out) and wait for his response. Don't argue with him - just state your case. If it still continues, ask for the people who run the hockey school to arrange an arbitration meeting between yourselves and a rep from the school.

In short let the adults on the ice handle the kids behaviour and let the adults in the stands try to behave like adults.

Of course after typing all that, I have been known to take a particularly difficult parent aside and explain to him why it would be in his best interest to avoid the rink for a few weeks

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05-07-2009, 09:34 AM
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EmptyNetter
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Originally Posted by Grave77digger View Post
I never thought I would be THAT GUY to confront another parent. But that is where the blame lies, not with the child. I am still very angry and will more than likely contact the rink and complain. May just edit this post and mail it to the rink managers.

Any thoughts or opinions? I am still VERY angry about this. I honestly wanted to tear this guys head off for being such a *****. I havnt shaved since I was in Iraq, sporting my Pens playoff beard... I must have looked like the crazed parent and not him.


Great post and I think you handled it perfectly. Most important points IMO are that a) his son is only doing what his old man tells him to do, and b) this dad should not be allowed in the rink.

Definitely follow through with contacting the rink manager. If other parents have all had talks about this guy I'm sure a lot of the kids on the ice have been knocked around, too. Frankly I'd be concerned that there's not enough supervision from the coaches that this would be tolerated.

No offense, buddhahat, but I've got to disagree with your position. While the kids may not be physically hurt by getting knocked around they shouldn't be bullied. The kids who can't take it will quit and the ones who can take it learn bad lessons about hitting and intimidation. That there's a range of ages from 4-12 on the ice the coaches should be much more aware of, and prepared to handle, this kind of thing.

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05-07-2009, 09:54 AM
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That's just insane. You should've whacked him over the head with a hockey stick.

J/K, but seriously, aren't there any refs or supervisors that work at the rink? How can they not notice that kind of crap? I'd be more mad at the refs/supervisors than that "parent" you spoke of.

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05-07-2009, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post


Great post and I think you handled it perfectly. Most important points IMO are that a) his son is only doing what his old man tells him to do, and b) this dad should not be allowed in the rink.

Definitely follow through with contacting the rink manager. If other parents have all had talks about this guy I'm sure a lot of the kids on the ice have been knocked around, too. Frankly I'd be concerned that there's not enough supervision from the coaches that this would be tolerated.

No offense, buddhahat, but I've got to disagree with your position. While the kids may not be physically hurt by getting knocked around they shouldn't be bullied. The kids who can't take it will quit and the ones who can take it learn bad lessons about hitting and intimidation. That there's a range of ages from 4-12 on the ice the coaches should be much more aware of, and prepared to handle, this kind of thing.
Well, if you give it another read you'll see that I said that the on-ice coaches should be informed of the inappropriate behaviour and left to deal with the bullying behaviour. Also if you took the time to read the initial post, you'll see that Gravedigger said that his child was not bothered by it so much (playing with him). So I'm not sure where I went wrong? maybe you could give it another read and be more specific?

Also where I live the rink manager runs the rink not the hockey programs. Whoever has paid for the ice is responsible for the one-ice conduct - which is why once again I suggested he talk to an on-ice coach.

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05-07-2009, 11:21 AM
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I think buddhahat has some very good advice. It sounds as if it has escallated to the point that it needs to be brought to the rinks/coaches attention ASAP. I would track down the woman who applauded your action and see if you can track down a few other like minded parents as well. As a group I would then present a case to the appropriate personnel. This way they immediately realize it is not just you picking a bone with another parent. During this conversation, two things need to be addressed:

First, why are the on ice personnel allowing this to happen. Little Johnny should be spending some time on the bench thinking about his actions.

Secondly, highlight the actions of the parent and how his inappropriate behaviour is driving his childs inappropriate behaviour. The rink should be following a zero tollerence policy. This parent needs to be talked to, then observed and then banned from the rink if the behaviour continues. This needs to happen NOW while the kids are just learning to skate. It will be too late (or at least a heck of a lot more difficult) once the kid is playing in an organzed league.

Good luck.

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05-07-2009, 11:33 AM
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I think you stepped over the line with the parent of the year comment, but we all say things in the heat of the moment. Sounds like you kept your cool for the most and most importantly, you didn't stoop to his level.

If other parents have wanted to say something to this guy. The group of your should take your case to the program director. If the group of you think his actions and or behavior are inappropriate. Then maybe he needs to be told to stay home.

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05-07-2009, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by buddhahat View Post
Well, if you give it another read you'll see that I said that the on-ice coaches should be informed of the inappropriate behaviour and left to deal with the bullying behaviour. Also if you took the time to read the initial post, you'll see that Gravedigger said that his child was not bothered by it so much (playing with him). So I'm not sure where I went wrong? maybe you could give it another read and be more specific?

Also where I live the rink manager runs the rink not the hockey programs. Whoever has paid for the ice is responsible for the one-ice conduct - which is why once again I suggested he talk to an on-ice coach.
And of course I showed great restraint and maturity with my snarky comeback

It's tough as a parent not to get wound up when you feel your child is being treated roughly or unfairly. I personally am the worst when we have two teams at the same level and one group of parents conspire to stack a team - that drives me nuts. Not physical abuse perhaps but I think it qualifies as emotional abuse to both teams. No one needs to win or lose 10-0.

Here's how I sum up my coaching style - the kids need to learn to love the game before they will love to learn the game, so get out of the way and let them play!! In a safe environment of course

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05-07-2009, 12:13 PM
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JLHockeyKnight
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First off even though your a Pens fan and I'm supposed to hate you for that, thanks for serving in the armed forces!

Second, you definitely did the right thing, especially considering a mom came up to you afterwards. You also had him beat on every possible argument because he was being a loud ass, and was telling his son to get physical, then when your son gets him back he plays the defensive role, even though your son was technically defending himself.

He's a dope, plain and simple. "That's how people die out there?" I've had 3 concussions, I'd be more concerned about being hit than getting cut by a skate blade(even though it still is a major concern).

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05-07-2009, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by buddhahat View Post
Well, I would say that you started off correctly but it sounds like it escalated a bit too far. As a parent and a coach, I have found that there is nothing wrong with letting a parent or player know that you consider their behaviour unacceptable. What I try to do is keep it quiet the first time I bring it up. Calling someone out in front of others seems to bring out the worst in people especially sporting parents.

Here's what I would do from here on - stay away from the other parent for now. Call over a coach or assistant on the ice and tell them what you are seeing happening on the ice. Let them handle the other boy's behaviour, warn him, maybe remove him from the ice (IMHO they should be watching a little more closely as it is). But remember that it'll take a fair amount for little kids to be hurt while wearing equipment - make sure you are genuinely worried about your kid getting hurt and not just annoyed at the other kid's dad.

If the other parent approaches you, apologize for losing your temper and reiterate that you think his behaviour (not his kid's - important!!) is unaceptable in kid's hockey. If there are like-minded parents around you when this is happening use a voice that can be overheard (he approached you so you are not calling him out) and wait for his response. Don't argue with him - just state your case. If it still continues, ask for the people who run the hockey school to arrange an arbitration meeting between yourselves and a rep from the school.

In short let the adults on the ice handle the kids behaviour and let the adults in the stands try to behave like adults.

Of course after typing all that, I have been known to take a particularly difficult parent aside and explain to him why it would be in his best interest to avoid the rink for a few weeks
Yep and also like the rink I play at mostly bad parents who do that get tossed out of the building for the game. They also have signs posted in the lobby and food concession area to let them know that isn't tolerated.

Too bad some parents have to be so serious about a GAME. It is just a game and doesn't require yelling at the refs, kids or other parents.

The original poster had a right to be upset for sure.

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05-07-2009, 03:06 PM
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Man your story get me heated just reading!

My son just turned 11months old and i look forward to the day that i can get him on the ice and interested in playing hockey and i really hope i dont have to deal with parents like that.

I've played hockey for the majority of my life so i've seen those competitive parents in the stands (half the time they were moms!) and how annoying and disrespectful they can be. I just hope that if that day comes i can play it as cool as you did. I'd take a camcorder to the rink and catch the guy making the comments he's making and turn it into the league, maybe if they see it first hand they can sort it out.

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05-07-2009, 03:10 PM
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I think you handled the situation accordingly. At that age there is really no reason why a parent should be encouraging their kid to harm others. The point is to have fun and develop skills.

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05-07-2009, 07:36 PM
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If people are continuously and are instructing their kids to deliver cheap shots, feel free to get them banned via the rink manager or hockey program director. That's really the best medicine.

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05-07-2009, 07:40 PM
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You dealt with it the proper way, in my opinion. Something had to be said, so good on you for taking a stand against him, on behalf of the other parents.

On a lighter note, this is what the ******** in question deserves:



(I know he was up against the glass, but whatever...)

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05-08-2009, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by buddhahat View Post
Well, if you give it another read you'll see that I said that the on-ice coaches should be informed of the inappropriate behaviour and left to deal with the bullying behaviour. Also if you took the time to read the initial post, you'll see that Gravedigger said that his child was not bothered by it so much (playing with him). So I'm not sure where I went wrong? maybe you could give it another read and be more specific?

Also where I live the rink manager runs the rink not the hockey programs. Whoever has paid for the ice is responsible for the one-ice conduct - which is why once again I suggested he talk to an on-ice coach.
You're probably right about speaking to the coaches/instructors about the unruly dad rather than the rink manager. However, the instructors may have no control over who sits in the stands. It's private property and I would think the rink mgr. would need to be involved if the matter required removal and banning of the bad dad from the premises.

When he approaches the hockey instructor(s) I think he should take the polite but concerned parent approach. The main point where I disagree with you is that Grave77digger owes no apology to the other father. A good staredown is the better option than a beatdown -- no punches were thrown but the bad dad was sent a strong message that his behavior wouldn't be tolerated. More importantly, he was left babbling as he tried to justify his "methods" in teaching his son to play hockey. Bad dad is a bully, he's teaching his son how to bully other kids. While pushing bad dad around would undermine the message that "fighting is bad" a bully isn't going to stand around and discuss the finer points of non-contact hockey. "Tell your kid to hit my kid and we're gonna go," is a compelling message. If bad dad cleans up his act then they can start apologising for past wrongs and scheduling play dates.

For what it's worth I'm by no means a tough guy but I can't stand bullying and I'm a strong advocate for defending oneself (and one's family).

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05-08-2009, 11:47 AM
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You're probably right about speaking to the coaches/instructors about the unruly dad rather than the rink manager. However, the instructors may have no control over who sits in the stands. It's private property and I would think the rink mgr. would need to be involved if the matter required removal and banning of the bad dad from the premises.

When he approaches the hockey instructor(s) I think he should take the polite but concerned parent approach. The main point where I disagree with you is that Grave77digger owes no apology to the other father. A good staredown is the better option than a beatdown -- no punches were thrown but the bad dad was sent a strong message that his behavior wouldn't be tolerated. More importantly, he was left babbling as he tried to justify his "methods" in teaching his son to play hockey. Bad dad is a bully, he's teaching his son how to bully other kids. While pushing bad dad around would undermine the message that "fighting is bad" a bully isn't going to stand around and discuss the finer points of non-contact hockey. "Tell your kid to hit my kid and we're gonna go," is a compelling message. If bad dad cleans up his act then they can start apologising for past wrongs and scheduling play dates.

For what it's worth I'm by no means a tough guy but I can't stand bullying and I'm a strong advocate for defending oneself (and one's family).
In this case an apology, heartfelt or not, serves two purposes - a) it gives the other man an opportunity to apologize as well without "losing face" and opens up a chance for a constructive dialog and b) it confirms the occupant of the moral high ground in case anyone else happens to be listening in. Notice I did not say go give him an apology, I said open with one if he approaches you thus setting the tone for the following discussion. And apologize for losing your temper not for what you said.

IMO - it doesn't cost a penny to be humble in whatever negotiations you are involved in and it could result in a positive outcome. And any kids that overhear will see a man both taking responsibility for his actions and still maintaining the position he believes in.

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05-08-2009, 03:20 PM
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I love the irony in him crying over how his son "could die out there" and then later brings up that your son should "play basketball" if hockey is too rough for him.

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05-09-2009, 06:20 PM
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Grave77digger #1 two thanks for you. I mean being a responsible father and serving in the forces, that is awesome. As a teacher with many military parents, I see a few fathers who kind of forget the children aspect of a family and focus on their jobs.

Now in regards to the guy at the rink: I would address the issue to the coach or instructors of the program about what has been taking place. Usually these programs are founded on the ideas of instilling good sportsmanship in the participants and the dork of a dad is not doing that at all. After mentioning it to the coaches, give it some time (a couple of weeks) and if no progress is made, then address the rink management. I would love to have my son play hockey, and programs like this make it all easier. I just wish there were not the jerk parents involved

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05-09-2009, 07:46 PM
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I have not had the time to contact the rink and I will be out oft own again and will miss his next couple classes. Im leaving it in the wifes hands while im gone. But i told her tot alk to the "coach". The reason I say "coach" is because for our group it was some teenage kid... and the other looked to be in his early 20s. Neither are much of an authoritive figure. we will see though!

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05-17-2009, 01:24 AM
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Sounds like you did the right thing confronted the guy without getting too hot.
btw I think I found a youtube vid of the other kid's dad!

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05-17-2009, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Grave77digger View Post
Thanks for the advice everyone. I have not had the time to contact the rink and I will be out oft own again and will miss his next couple classes. Im leaving it in the wifes hands while im gone. But i told her tot alk to the "coach". The reason I say "coach" is because for our group it was some teenage kid... and the other looked to be in his early 20s. Neither are much of an authoritive figure. we will see though!
Teenagers may not seem like much of an authority figure to you, but as a teenager who's worked with kids, kids do see them as an authority figure and a role model. Yeah, he's not going to have an effect on the parent, but he very well could be able to help the kid tone it down. As long as the dad's there, it's not going to go away completely, but it could help.

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05-17-2009, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Grave77digger View Post
Thanks for the advice everyone. I have not had the time to contact the rink and I will be out oft own again and will miss his next couple classes. Im leaving it in the wifes hands while im gone. But i told her tot alk to the "coach". The reason I say "coach" is because for our group it was some teenage kid... and the other looked to be in his early 20s. Neither are much of an authoritive figure. we will see though!
If it really is that much of an issue with you, you'll call the rink yourself, it's not fair to your wife to put that on her. If it's worth standing in the stands and having a pissing contest with the other kid's father, then it should be worth your kid's safety and that of the others out there for you to address the matter and not just put it on someone else.

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05-17-2009, 04:12 PM
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You should knock down and elbow and kick the other kids father in the head three times. Just kidding. You handled it well.

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05-17-2009, 04:48 PM
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Kudos, man!! As a player, coach, and decent human being I detest these parents.

As a coach I would have had a problem with a parent (or anybody) telling a child I am trying to coach to elbow another player. First off, there is a very cut and dry penalty for ELBOWING! ****ing moron.

So many things wrong with this picture.

And thank you for serving our country. It makes me feel proud that there are good people representing the Stars and Stripes.

Best of luck to your son!

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Old
05-17-2009, 07:46 PM
  #25
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Admirable how you handled this situation, OP. Keep us updated

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