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Trade COL #3 '09 Pick for LA #5 '09 Pick +

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Old
05-06-2009, 10:12 PM
  #26
Reaper45
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Not a chance. Stewart is the real deal. He's a budding powerforward who hits, fights, skates well and can score goals. He would have been on pace for around 20 goals if he played the whole year. And thats on the worst offensive club in the league.


Bernier for Hensick is more realistic.
I know what he is, but Bernier is the real deal too, don't be fooled by his AHL stats this year.

Hensick is a more realistic option for the Av's but not the Kings. The Kings have no use for a kid like Hensick when they have Purcell who is similar.

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05-06-2009, 10:18 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I know what he is, but Bernier is the real deal too, don't be fooled by his AHL stats this year.

Hensick is a more realistic option for the Av's but not the Kings. The Kings have no use for a kid like Hensick when they have Purcell who is similar.
Well when Bernier proves it in the NHL like Stewart has, then we'll start talking about a Stewart for Bernier deal. As of right now, Stew's value has to be higher, as he's proven it at a higher level (albeit a small sample size).


What do the Kings need for Bernier? Wingers or Centers?

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05-07-2009, 12:53 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Bernier for Stewart.
I do that if you toss in a late round pick. I'm not convinced that Stewart will become a top-6 forward. I'm not convinced Bernier will become more than 1b, but he's looked pretty decent from what I can tell.

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05-07-2009, 09:11 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Stories View Post
I do that if you toss in a late round pick. I'm not convinced that Stewart will become a top-6 forward. I'm not convinced Bernier will become more than 1b, but he's looked pretty decent from what I can tell.
He doesn't need to be. He can play with his best friend Wayne Simmonds and with Jarret Stoll for years to come. That's a damn good 3rd line.

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05-07-2009, 10:33 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by KingsCrown View Post
You dont fill immediate needs with the draft. Last year was a very special draft that comes along very rarely. You fill immediate needs with FA or trades. LW/RW is the least valuable position according to DL value of players. Defensive D-man, we have them: Green, Teubert, Drewiske, Cambell.
My point was to show you that we should either use the pick at the draft or trade it for a proven player. My point was meant for THIS season. It goes to our needs, not to what's available at the draft.

Your point regarding drafting the best player, rather than on needs nullifies your entire proposal, in that you're clearly striving to draft a particular player by moving up 2 spots. Why else would you do this deal if this is not the case? I'm guessing you want Duchene? Again, that's not necessarily the best option.

I'm confident DL will be focused on addressing needs in the off-season.

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05-07-2009, 01:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
My point was to show you that we should either use the pick at the draft or trade it for a proven player. My point was meant for THIS season. It goes to our needs, not to what's available at the draft.

Your point regarding drafting the best player, rather than on needs nullifies your entire proposal, in that you're clearly striving to draft a particular player by moving up 2 spots. Why else would you do this deal if this is not the case? I'm guessing you want Duchene? Again, that's not necessarily the best option.

I'm confident DL will be focused on addressing needs in the off-season.
Im confident in DL's decision as well. I posted this because we have the picks and assets available to move up if we wanted to, and Duchene is a tier up from what Kane/Schenn/MPS are projected. Any one of them can be a superstar in this league, but the concensus is Duchene is above those other three guys and to be able to draft him by not giving up any of our blue chip prospects, to me it is worth it. Again just my opinion as I respect yours. BPA available would be Duchene after JT and Hedman.

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05-07-2009, 01:46 PM
  #32
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Colorado might have their own deals to work out without moving down. No way do they pass on taking Duchene, problem is - as was noted above - the Lightning are starting to think about taking Duchene over Hedman.

Duchene is a generational hockey player who can be Sakic's heir apparent. I doubt Colorado moves that pick for anything.

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05-07-2009, 01:59 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 504Heater View Post
Colorado might have their own deals to work out without moving down. No way do they pass on taking Duchene, problem is - as was noted above - the Lightning are starting to think about taking Duchene over Hedman.

Duchene is a generational hockey player who can be Sakic's heir apparent. I doubt Colorado moves that pick for anything.
What a terrible "problem" to have to take Hedman. Poor us.

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05-07-2009, 02:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by 504Heater View Post
Colorado might have their own deals to work out without moving down. No way do they pass on taking Duchene, problem is - as was noted above - the Lightning are starting to think about taking Duchene over Hedman.

Duchene is a generational hockey player who can be Sakic's heir apparent. I doubt Colorado moves that pick for anything.
If they take another center Vinny would almost assuredly be gone. They dont need to worry about taking another center when Vinny is only 30 when they need help on the back end.

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05-07-2009, 03:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by KingsCrown View Post
Im confident in DL's decision as well. I posted this because we have the picks and assets available to move up if we wanted to, and Duchene is a tier up from what Kane/Schenn/MPS are projected. Any one of them can be a superstar in this league, but the concensus is Duchene is above those other three guys and to be able to draft him by not giving up any of our blue chip prospects, to me it is worth it. Again just my opinion as I respect yours. BPA available would be Duchene after JT and Hedman.
I understand that it's fun to propose these deals. I was just stating we may want a guy or two that have been there(like a Williams, etc). Dean is pretty much out of time in terms of the re-build, so aquiring a guy that may or may not be ready in two to three years is pointless if he's no longer with us by then. That's when I made my point about trading the pick to aquire someone established.

The value in your proposed deal seems fair, though.

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05-07-2009, 04:39 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
I understand that it's fun to propose these deals. I was just stating we may want a guy or two that have been there(like a Williams, etc). Dean is pretty much out of time in terms of the re-build, so aquiring a guy that may or may not be ready in two to three years is pointless if he's no longer with us by then. That's when I made my point about trading the pick to aquire someone established.

The value in your proposed deal seems fair, though.
Who in your mind, that would be feasibly available via trade, to bring what you think this team needs???

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05-07-2009, 04:57 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by KingsCrown View Post
Who in your mind, that would be feasibly available via trade, to bring what you think this team needs???
Up front-Trades

1. Gagne
2. Cheechoo
3. Sturm

Up front-UFA

1. Hossa(won't happen, but he's unsigned still so...)
2. Gaborik

Back end-UFA

1. Komisarek

Those are the guys I'd go for.

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05-07-2009, 05:06 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Not a chance. Stewart is the real deal. He's a budding powerforward who hits, fights, skates well and can score goals. He would have been on pace for around 20 goals if he played the whole year. And thats on the worst offensive club in the league.


Bernier for Hensick is more realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Well when Bernier proves it in the NHL like Stewart has, then we'll start talking about a Stewart for Bernier deal. As of right now, Stew's value has to be higher, as he's proven it at a higher level (albeit a small sample size).


What do the Kings need for Bernier? Wingers or Centers?
I like how you say Bernier needs to prove himself in NHL games and then on the flip side you so nonchalantly say Stewart was "on pace for 20". "On pace for" is the equivalent of saying he had the potential to. Same as Bernier has the potential to be a good NHL goalie. For all you know, Stewart could have just quit at 11 goals this year. And for all we know, Bernier could have outperformed the likes of Mason and be up for the Calder had he been called up in the beginning of the season. All I'm saying is you have to be consistent when you throw around words like "on pace for" and "potential". You can't use them to hype your guy and then critique other teams' prospects. It reeks of homerism.

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05-07-2009, 05:09 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
Up front-Trades

1. Gagne
2. Cheechoo
3. Sturm

Up front-UFA

1. Hossa(won't happen, but he's unsigned still so...)
2. Gaborik

Back end-UFA

1. Komisarek

Those are the guys I'd go for.
I doubt Gagne is going to be "feasibly available."

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05-07-2009, 05:13 PM
  #40
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Bernier stays, unless rolled into a package for a big fish.

DL's past trade patterns should indicate any action short of this is highly unlikely. I believe he's learned his lesson(s).

Keep in mind he had nothing to do with the deal with CO wanting Bernier for Smyth at the deadline.

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05-07-2009, 05:14 PM
  #41
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I doubt Gagne is going to be "feasibly available."
This is a guy you'd trade Bernier for.........

Start with JB and work up.



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05-07-2009, 05:20 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zal View Post
Bernier stays, unless rolled into a package for a big fish.

DL's past trade patterns should indicate any action short of this is highly unlikely. I believe he's learned his lesson(s).

Keep in mind he had nothing to do with the deal with CO wanting Bernier for Smyth at the deadline.
That's because Colorado wanted Bernier and Teubert for Smyth. Lombardi laughed and hung up the phone.

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05-07-2009, 05:31 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
Up front-Trades

1. Gagne (Has a NTC)
2. Cheechoo I dont think his 12 goals and -3 are gonna put us over the top
3. Sturm (Has a NTC)

Up front-UFA

1. Hossa(won't happen, but he's unsigned still so...) (Not gonna happen but would like to see what he wants in a contract)
2. Gaborik (Definitely should be inquiring about him)

Back end-UFA

1. Komisarek

Those are the guys I'd go for.
And this is why this is a trade proposal not a which UFA we should get, these guys are definitely on the Kings and everyone else's radar.

Again my argument is more for getting a top flight blue chip forward into our system, which I think Duchene is above and beyond Kane/Schenn, MPS, not for immediate help, but to have that type of prospect in the Kings organization. We fill our immediate needs with FA/trades, and IMO, I dont think any of the 3 forwards you lised will either come to LA or be that difference maker. The 2 FA's you listed are a completely different story.


Last edited by KingsCrown: 05-07-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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05-07-2009, 05:33 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsCrown View Post
And this is why this is a trade proposal not a which UFA we should get, these guys are definitely on the Kings and everyone else's radar.

Again my argument is more for getting a top flight blue chip forward into our system, which I think Duchene is above and beyond Kane/Schenn, MPS, not for immediate help, but to have that type of prospect in the Kings organization. We fill our immediate needs with FA/trades, and IMO, I dont think any of the 3 forwards you lised will either come to LA or be that difference maker. The 2 FA's you listed are a completely different story.
Don't be fooled by Cheechoo's goal total this year, it's because he was on the 3rd line. He'd come here and put up 30 playing with Kopitar.

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05-07-2009, 05:34 PM
  #45
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That's because Colorado wanted Bernier and Teubert for Smyth. Lombardi laughed and hung up the phone.
Which mean he values them more than a 20ish goal scorer, which was my point.

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05-07-2009, 05:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
I like how you say Bernier needs to prove himself in NHL games and then on the flip side you so nonchalantly say Stewart was "on pace for 20". "On pace for" is the equivalent of saying he had the potential to. Same as Bernier has the potential to be a good NHL goalie. For all you know, Stewart could have just quit at 11 goals this year. And for all we know, Bernier could have outperformed the likes of Mason and be up for the Calder had he been called up in the beginning of the season. All I'm saying is you have to be consistent when you throw around words like "on pace for" and "potential". You can't use them to hype your guy and then critique other teams' prospects. It reeks of homerism.
Oh, shut up. Stewart is not yet proven, but he's had more time to demonstrate his skills than Bernier. Maybe he would've gone onto score 20 goals, maybe not, but he probably would have scored some more points over the stretch of 82 games given his comfort level on the ice. Maybe if Bernier had played at least a dozen games or so you could defend posting this melodramatic paragraph. Bernier is very young and talented, and I'm not sure if Stewart for him is fair or not, but it's hard to defend the stance that Stewart is not more proven given that he has had more time in the NHL (compared to Bernier's four games) and has been noticed very positively even off the scoreboard.

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Keep in mind he had nothing to do with the deal with CO wanting Bernier for Smyth at the deadline.
Beyond baseless speculation / rumors, I don't believe there is anything to back up the claim that Colorado was trying to trade Smyth, never mind seeking Bernier and Teubert in return. Please show me otherwise if I am wrong.

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05-07-2009, 06:28 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Stories View Post

Beyond baseless speculation / rumors, I don't believe there is anything to back up the claim that Colorado was trying to trade Smyth, never mind seeking Bernier and Teubert in return. Please show me otherwise if I am wrong.
Dunno if Smyth was being shopped, but Lombardi was inquiring about him.

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05-07-2009, 06:46 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by The Budaj Bugatti View Post

Beyond baseless speculation / rumors, I don't believe there is anything to back up the claim that Colorado was trying to trade Smyth, never mind seeking Bernier and Teubert in return. Please show me otherwise if I am wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Hammond
Question: at the trade deadline which Kings players and prospects were on other teams wish list. I would like to know what players other teams wanted.

Answer: Michal Handzus, Alexander Frolov and Sean O'Donnell generated the most interest among players, and I'm sure pretty much all of the prospects came into discussion at some point. Colorado wanted a package that included Jonathan Bernier and Colten Teubert as part of any discussion for Ryan Smyth, so that didn't get very far.
http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...i-12.html#more

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05-07-2009, 06:48 PM
  #49
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Oh, shut up. Stewart is not yet proven, but he's had more time to demonstrate his skills than Bernier. Maybe he would've gone onto score 20 goals, maybe not, but he probably would have scored some more points over the stretch of 82 games given his comfort level on the ice. Maybe if Bernier had played at least a dozen games or so you could defend posting this melodramatic paragraph. Bernier is very young and talented, and I'm not sure if Stewart for him is fair or not, but it's hard to defend the stance that Stewart is not more proven given that he has had more time in the NHL (compared to Bernier's four games) and has been noticed very positively even off the scoreboard.


Beyond baseless speculation / rumors, I don't believe there is anything to back up the claim that Colorado was trying to trade Smyth, never mind seeking Bernier and Teubert in return. Please show me otherwise if I am wrong.
Nevermind, the link to the story is posted above mine.

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05-07-2009, 07:15 PM
  #50
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Thanks.

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