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Did we rush O'Byrne into the NHL?

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Old
05-08-2009, 05:18 AM
  #1
didouche
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Did we rush O'Byrne into the NHL?

I ask the question after reading an interview with Ken Holland

http://www.freep.com/article/2009050...+a+dream+life+

He talks about Jonathan Ericsson:
So when Babcock told him this past off-season he wanted Jonathan Ericsson on the roster in Detroit, Holland told the coach no because he didn't think the young defenseman was ready.
"I guess I would say to you: This is the toughest league in the world. And if you get here, and you start making mistakes, you lose your confidence or the coach loses confidence in you. There is a lot of rehabilitation that needs to go on.
"The longer you can be away from this league and keep the player improving, the more prepared he is when he gets here. I mean, you are talking about a guy (Ericsson) that was a winger until he was 18 years of age. He is learning to play defense."

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05-08-2009, 05:25 AM
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I read this article and im sorry but im thinking about lots of players including O'byrne.

Price might have been a first round 5th overrall pick but we still rushed him, we rushed alot of players and now we're seeing it.

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05-08-2009, 05:44 AM
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We rushed all our crops, except for A.Kost.

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05-08-2009, 06:12 AM
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Do any of you remember when we actually rushed nobody and still didn't develop anybody?

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05-08-2009, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preston View Post
Do any of you remember when we actually rushed nobody and still didn't develop anybody?
Yes, yes I do. Besides Price...I don't think anyone else was rushed. Latendresse had a lot of difficulties but that was expected and I believe had we left him another year in the juniors, it would have been more difficult for him to get rid of some nasty habits.

All our other young guns weren't rushed. D'Agostini, Price, Pleks, A.Kost all spent at least 2-3 years in the minors.

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05-08-2009, 08:00 AM
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Yes, yes I do. Besides Price...I don't think anyone else was rushed. Latendresse had a lot of difficulties but that was expected and I believe had we left him another year in the juniors, it would have been more difficult for him to get rid of some nasty habits.

All our other young guns weren't rushed. D'Agostini, Price, Pleks, A.Kost all spent at least 2-3 years in the minors.
Doesn't anybody remember how pathetic Komisarek was in his first 2 years?
OB will be ok...

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lillypad33 View Post
Doesn't anybody remember how pathetic Komisarek was in his first 2 years?
Yes. He's still pathetic now.

When he doesn't have Markov to make him look good, we see Komisarek for what he really is : an average bottom pairing defenseman.

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BeBen View Post

Price might have been a first round 5th overrall pick but we still rushed him, we rushed alot of players and now we're seeing it.
Concur. Price was not, in any meaningful way, ready for the NHL.

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05-08-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
Yes. He's still pathetic now.

When he doesn't have Markov to make him look good, we see Komisarek for what he really is : an average bottom pairing defenseman.
With a statement like that you should avoid posting in the future, not helping your credibility there.

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05-08-2009, 08:40 AM
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I don't really see how O'Byrne was rushed. It's not like he's fresh out of junior, the guy is 24 and spent a year and a half in Hamilton. And when he got called up in 07/08, his play was pretty solid. All the indicators were showing that he was ready for the show, and I don't recall anyone doubting him when he made the team last fall.

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by didouche View Post
I ask the question after reading an interview with Ken Holland

http://www.freep.com/article/2009050...+a+dream+life+

He talks about Jonathan Ericsson:
So when Babcock told him this past off-season he wanted Jonathan Ericsson on the roster in Detroit, Holland told the coach no because he didn't think the young defenseman was ready.
"I guess I would say to you: This is the toughest league in the world. And if you get here, and you start making mistakes, you lose your confidence or the coach loses confidence in you. There is a lot of rehabilitation that needs to go on.
"The longer you can be away from this league and keep the player improving, the more prepared he is when he gets here. I mean, you are talking about a guy (Ericsson) that was a winger until he was 18 years of age. He is learning to play defense."

We didn't rush O'Byrne....we just didn't give him a fair chance to learn the ropes. He got limited icetime and if he made 1 mistake he sat on the bench. We need to let him get a feel for the NHL game and let him learn from his mistakes, but since winning is all that matters in Montreal....he wasn't given the chance to play and make a few mistakes here and there.

I think if we gave him more icetime and depended on him more, he would play better and improve his game.

He's going to be a key player for us next year when he replaces Komisarek on the blueline.

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05-08-2009, 08:46 AM
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I don't think he was rushed, I just think a lot of fans cannot accept the learning curve required to play in the league. Since we didn't already have a strong base like Detroit, we had to rebuild around young players. Those youngsters are going through a learning curve just like any other rebuilding team, and O'Byrne is part of it. Experience is gained on field, and that takes time.

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05-08-2009, 08:46 AM
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I don't even think Price was rushed.

Just because the organisation isn't as shortsighted as it's fans doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.

When he gets to a point where a goalie would normally be a starter, he's going to be an absolute stud. He's going to have all kinds of experience as a starter and he'll probably be at a point where he won't care much for anything, like Fleury now.

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
With a statement like that you should avoid posting in the future, not helping your credibility there.

Its the cold hard truth. Komisarek played his best hockey before he got injured when he was playing with Markov. After he came back, he was rotten. He played like garbage for the whole second half of the season whether he played with Markov or not.

Yes....Komisarek is awesome at hitting and blocking shots, but after those things, he doesn't provide much. He's not a great passer, he's not great at carrying the puck and he doesn't contribute much offence at all. I like Komisarek, but people are rating him as a better player then he really is. This season for Komisarek was pretty sad coming on the end.

I'd like to see him re-sign in Montreal, but for $3-$3.5 million a season and not a penny more. If we lose him tho, its no big deal and we'll manage without him.

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05-08-2009, 08:55 AM
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Well just about everyone will look rushed when you look at the disaster of a season we just had. I don't know if I would say players were rushed, if you look back to last year, things were looking great. Kostitsyn looks good on the top line, the younger Kostitsyn makes a nice debut and puts up good numbers in the playoffs, Price shines after Huet gets traded, O'B looks solid, Chipchura does ok puts up 11 pts in 36 games on the 4th line, Higgins pots 27, Pleks breaks out puts up big numbers.

Then a year later, Kostitsyns struggle, one gets sent to Hamilton for a spell the other ends the season on a massive slump, Higgins pots only 12 goals has injury problems, Pleks production drops 30 pts, O'B goes from decent looking bottom pairing prospect to getting sent back to Hamilton and now some fans wouldn't want him to fill the water bottles, Price looks like crap in the 2nd half struggles to get back on track, etc....

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
I don't even think Price was rushed.

Just because the organisation isn't as shortsighted as it's fans doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.

When he gets to a point where a goalie would normally be a starter, he's going to be an absolute stud. He's going to have all kinds of experience as a starter and he'll probably be at a point where he won't care much for anything, like Fleury now.

Price was definitely rushed. Making the jump from junior to the NHL is a huge jump and he wasn't ready for it....and especially this season, he showed that big time. If he was truly ready for the NHL, he would have had a great season for use this year instead of failing like he did. I could understand his stuggles last season because it was his first full season, but this season was unacceptable and proved that he was rushed.

Price played some great hockey for us, he had a couple of hot streaks but he also had some cold streaks when we needed him the most....and that spells inexperienceto me!!! Price had a hard time handling all the pressure and attention this season and he played rotten down the stretch because of it.
He didn't play hard enough in the Boston series and let in some very soft goals. If a goaltender is ready to play in the NHL....he plays big when the team needs him.

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05-08-2009, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Price was definitely rushed. Making the jump from junior to the NHL is a huge jump and he wasn't ready for it....and especially this season, he showed that big time. If he was truly ready for the NHL, he would have had a great season for use this year instead of failing like he did. I could understand his stuggles last season because it was his first full season, but this season was unacceptable and proved that he was rushed.

Price played some great hockey for us, he had a couple of hot streaks but he also had some cold streaks when we needed him the most....and that spells inexperienceto me!!! Price had a hard time handling all the pressure and attention this season and he played rotten down the stretch because of it.
He didn't play hard enough in the Boston series and let in some very soft goals. If a goaltender is ready to play in the NHL....he plays big when the team needs him.
See, you don't understand. Re-read my post and you'll see that of course he isn't ready to be a starter, but when he'd normally be ready, he's going to be in the upper echelon of starting goalies.

They rushed hi mso they didn't have to work out a new contract with Huet so that they could have their long term fix in net when he's gone.

It might not look great now, but if the organisation feels he can go through the rough patches and turn himself into a better player, then they made the good long term decision.

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05-08-2009, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BeBen View Post
I read this article and im sorry but im thinking about lots of players including O'byrne.

Price might have been a first round 5th overrall pick but we still rushed him, we rushed alot of players and now we're seeing it.
The 2007-2008 season with 104 points is really misleading.

Price, O'byrne, S,Kost should had played the whole season at AHL level.

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05-08-2009, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
See, you don't understand. Re-read my post and you'll see that of course he isn't ready to be a starter, but when he'd normally be ready, he's going to be in the upper echelon of starting goalies.

They rushed hi mso they didn't have to work out a new contract with Huet so that they could have their long term fix in net when he's gone.

It might not look great now, but if the organisation feels he can go through the rough patches and turn himself into a better player, then they made the good long term decision.
The problem with Price is not his talent, but what diminish his taloent: his off-ice behaviour and activities. His lack of maturity and discipline.

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05-08-2009, 09:42 AM
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So, let's take an example of a late bloomer and set him as a standard?

Ericsson played 2 in the AHL, the same as O'Byrne. O'B didn't get rushed, he just struggled, that's it. Why are we always looking for reasons and excuses... players struggle sometimes, it happens to the best of them.

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05-08-2009, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
See, you don't understand. Re-read my post and you'll see that of course he isn't ready to be a starter, but when he'd normally be ready, he's going to be in the upper echelon of starting goalies.

They rushed hi mso they didn't have to work out a new contract with Huet so that they could have their long term fix in net when he's gone.

It might not look great now, but if the organisation feels he can go through the rough patches and turn himself into a better player, then they made the good long term decision.

I understand why the Habs done what they done with Price....I just don't agree with it at all. Price needed at least 1 full year in Hamilton with the Bulldogs to fine tune his game and make the adjustment to pro hockey where there was no pressure or constant spotlight on him.

They didn't have to forget about Halak like they did. They could have used him instead of forcing Price into a job that he is not ready for. We could have used Halak since he played solid when Huet got hurt and Aebischer was rotten and the Habs needed goaltending in 2006-07. They could have used Huet and Halak or the whole 07-08 season giving Halak some valuable experience with Huet while Price was playing in the minors and then at the end of that season, let Huet go and go with Halak and Price with Price in a backup role, with no pressure on him while Halak was the #1 for all of this season.

We would have done just as good with Halak in the net as we did with Price this season. Then next season, both goalie could split games unless one of them stepped up and took over and at the end of next season, we would be able to trade Halak away because he would have had 2 solid seasons with lots of playing time, Price would have had a full season in Hamilton, he would have backed Halak up for a season and then split all next season so he would have been broken in slowly and competed for the #1 job with Halak and he would be more ready than he was this season.

If we would have done those things instead of rushing Price, he would have been a better goalie for it. He would have been the Habs #1 goalie a season or 2 later than some people would have liked, but it would have been a more natural situation for him to adjust in.

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Old
05-08-2009, 09:55 AM
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If any player was rushed it was Price. Even the best young goalies are usually not ready to be #1 at 20. When you add in the fcat that it's in a hockey crazed town like Montreal it's a very tough spot.

The smart move would have been to keep Huet around(at least last year) to insulate him with a good veteran. Then maybe sign another one this year, a guy with 8-10 years experience who is good in the room and good enough to push CP to have to play his best...like Garon maybe.

O'byrne was not rushed, he just had an up and down year. He showed some good things and some real bad ones too, he needs to be a lot more consistant...but he has the size and tools to be as good(in a different way) than Komisarek.

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05-08-2009, 10:57 AM
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Melvin Udall
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[QUOTE=didouche;19471802]I ask the question after reading an interview with Ken Holland



O'Byrne? Maybe, maybe not. tHOUGH - he should probably be rushed out of the NHL!

Price? Definately - rushed into the NHL. I think Price's career has been badly
mis-managed by Habs management.

Holland vs Gainey: No comparison. This goes to show you the difference between how a truely good organization (Detroit) manages it's player assetts compared to - how a floundering "also ran" (Habs) team manages it's player assetts!

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05-08-2009, 11:58 AM
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Meh... he was slightly better than Komi in both their first years, and a lot worse than Komi in both their seconds years. I still have a hard time saying he's rushed, though, given he's a bit older than Gorges and Gorges has played well in the NHL despite starting at an even earlier age and being undrafted.

He just lacks a boatload of confidence. Having a D coach would work wonders for him; allow him to focus on his strengths, rather than guess what he should be doing.

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05-08-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
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Do any of you remember when we actually rushed nobody and still didn't develop anybody?
Yes but young fans won't remember.

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