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Philadelphia - Ottawa

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Old
05-08-2009, 07:07 PM
  #26
ELab2
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Philly would never want to give up Giroux but I have to think that if they were called with this deal they'd have to take it. It really helps to address their 2 biggest needs, gets rid of a player they don't want, and gets an extra pick for good measure. I love Giroux and I do NOT want to see him traded at all but I believe they'd have to take this.

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05-08-2009, 07:08 PM
  #27
BrindamoursNose
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::disclaimer:: I AM A HARDCORE FLYERS FAN::

To all Philly fans who wouldn't accept this proposal, you guys are laughable. You are insane if you think the Flyers are getting anywhere near ripped off in the deal.

I love Claude Giroux, I was telling everyone to look out for him LAST offseason, and now everyone finally sees he is good and is crazy about him, BUT...you can't pass up a massive overpayment from Ottawa like this.

Stop being homers and really step back to see how much Ottawa would be overpaying, I don't care what Giroux's contract is.

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05-08-2009, 07:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
::disclaimer:: I AM A HARDCORE FLYERS FAN::

To all Philly fans who wouldn't accept this proposal, you guys are laughable. You are insane if you think the Flyers are getting anywhere near ripped off in the deal.

I love Claude Giroux, I was telling everyone to look out for him LAST offseason, and now everyone finally sees he is good and is crazy about him, BUT...you can't pass up a massive overpayment from Ottawa like this.

Stop being homers and really step back to see how much Ottawa would be overpaying, I don't care what Giroux's contract is.

It's not a question of what Ottawa is giving up. It's a question of what WE are giving up. Also, Volchenkov would be great to have, but he is not the answer to my prayers.

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05-08-2009, 07:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Neither team does this. Giroux is a young superstar in the making, and Philadelphia would be stupid to trade him, especially before his ELC expires. This does address two large needs in the organization and more, but Philadelphia doesn't do it. Nobody outside of Tavares, Hedman, and maybe Duchene will be as good as Giroux will be.

Ottawa doesn't do it because of the amount of assets they are giving up. Volchenkov is a great defensive defenseman, Elliott is the future in net, and that 1st is a great asset. They can't justify giving up that much for a guy going into his 2nd year.
That is most likely true, and that's from someone who isn't even a Flyers fan.

This really doesn't address the Flyers need in goal. There are still too many questions surroundins Elliot to crown him the savior of the Flyers goalie problems of the past 25 years. Volchenkov would be a nice addition to the Flyers blueline but we already have 4 legit top 4 dmen with Sbisa coming along next year and Marshall most likey ready the following year. The biggest problem wiht our defensie is that 3 of the 4 in the top 4 are so young.

The Flyers can probably move one of their younf top 4 dmen for a pick (or in a package for a goalie) and sign a vet top 4 dman. We can look into FA goalies that are available this year and they will be better options then Elliot. Then we get to keep Giroux who is more valuable than the 9th overall.

It's probably fair value, but it still doesn't get done. The flyers can make similar or better upgrades to their team without losing Giroux.

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05-08-2009, 07:21 PM
  #30
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If anyone here watched the Pens/Flyers series, they will see why the Flyers won't do this. Giroux was our best player by far- better then Carter, better then Richards, and better then Gagne.

Giroux is special and is a player a team has to always be afraid of. He plays great 2-way hockey, and his vision is absurd. He see's guys and makes passes that only a slect few can

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05-08-2009, 07:22 PM
  #31
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There were Wild fans who said they'd take Lupul and San Jose's 3rd for Harding. We could waive Jones and replace him with a better defenseman for less than his $2.75 million. No need to deal Giroux at all.

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05-08-2009, 07:49 PM
  #32
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not happening from a Flyers POV

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05-08-2009, 07:50 PM
  #33
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
It's not a question of what Ottawa is giving up. It's a question of what WE are giving up. Also, Volchenkov would be great to have, but he is not the answer to my prayers.
We're not giving up anything we don't already have though man, that's the whole point of my rant. We have tons of young, talented forwards in the system/currently in the NHL, but we don't have a legit young goalie and a freight train of a D-Man anymore. PLUS, we'd be getting someone who could very likely be BETTER than Giroux.

We'd also be dumping Jones, mind you. I think you're really just clouded by the "greenness" of Giroux. I love him, but the package being offered is way better as far as value goes, lol.

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05-08-2009, 07:58 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
We're not giving up anything we don't already have though man, that's the whole point of my rant. We have tons of young, talented forwards in the system/currently in the NHL, but we don't have a legit young goalie and a freight train of a D-Man anymore. PLUS, we'd be getting someone who could very likely be BETTER than Giroux.
First of all, we do NOT have another forward with the same skillset as Giroux. Have you seen him play? We don't have anyone with that type of puck control, speed, and playmaking creativity, and we don't have any forwards of note in the pipeline beside JVR.

Secondly, we don't NEED a "freight train" on D. We need someone who is a defensive specialist, and who is not old, broken down, or a complete slug. Volchenkov would be nice, but he is not necessary.

Thirdly, the odds of getting a player better than Giroux at Ottawa's spot in this draft are actually less than 50/50, if you look at the history of the draft. The fact that we got Giroux at 22 in '06 is an absolute godsend, because he will probably end up being the 5th or 6th best player in that draft. Why would we trade something we KNOW we have, for a maybe?


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We'd also be dumping Jones, mind you.
We can send Jones to a team that needs a defenseman for future considerations, or we can Gauthier his ass to the Phantoms. Losing the final year of the Jones contract is not a sticking point in any way, shape, or form.


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I think you're really just clouded by the "greenness" of Giroux. I love him, but the package being offered is way better as far as value goes, lol.
And I think that you have no idea what you are talking about. He is an elite talent, and I am not trading him for a package in which the only immediate help is Anton Volchenkov. That is just stupid.

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05-08-2009, 08:08 PM
  #35
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This is a joke from an Ottawa perspective. Giroux is far from a sure thing whereas Volchenkov is one of the best defensive d-men in the league, Elliott will likely be a great #1 goalie for us and the 9th overall pick will be a small step below Giroux if used correctly

The Flyers can keep their hype-machine and overpaid defenseman, we'll keep our top 10 pick, our future #1 goalie and our top pairing defenseman

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
First of all, we do NOT have another forward with the same skillset as Giroux. Have you seen him play? We don't have anyone with that type of puck control, speed, and playmaking creativity, and we don't have any forwards of note in the pipeline beside JVR.

Secondly, we don't NEED a "freight train" on D. We need someone who is a defensive specialist, and who is not old, broken down, or a complete slug. Volchenkov would be nice, but he is not necessary.

Thirdly, the odds of getting a player better than Giroux at Ottawa's spot in this draft are actually less than 50/50, if you look at the history of the draft. The fact that we got Giroux at 22 in '06 is an absolute godsend, because he will probably end up being the 5th or 6th best player in that draft. Why would we trade something we KNOW we have, for a maybe?

We can send Jones to a team that needs a defenseman for future considerations, or we can Gauthier his ass to the Phantoms. Losing the final year of the Jones contract is not a sticking point in any way, shape, or form.

And I think that you have no idea what you are talking about. He is an elite talent, and I am not trading him for a package in which the only immediate help is Anton Volchenkov. That is just stupid.
You can say what you want about me, but the only people who say Giroux is too much to give up is FLYER fans. Everyone else, including a gentleman who mentioned that he's watched Claude since Gatineau (as have I), has said that Ottawa overpays way too much.

Everyone sees why it is a great trade for the Flyers but the few of you guys.

All I want to know is: What is the strength of our team's players (position and age-wise)? That's right, young forwards who are very talented. What are we lacking? Defense and Goalie. We'd be filling holes in addition to potentially getting someone better than Giroux.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about that concept? Makes perfect sense to me.

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05-08-2009, 08:10 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
This is a joke from an Ottawa perspective. Giroux is far from a sure thing whereas Volchenkov is one of the best defensive d-men in the league, Elliott will likely be a great #1 goalie for us and the 9th overall pick will be a small step below Giroux if used correctly

The Flyers can keep their hype-machine and overpaid defenseman, we'll keep our top 10 pick, our future #1 goalie and our top pairing defenseman

Giroux is a much surer thing than is Elliott, and the #9 pick is no guarantee whatsoever, so, yes, we will keep our 21-year-old top-6 forward. Thanks.

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05-08-2009, 08:11 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Giroux is a much surer thing than is Elliott, and the #9 pick is no guarantee whatsoever, so, yes, we will keep our 21-year-old top-6 forward. Thanks.
But Volchenkov is more of a sure-thing than Giroux.

Can't argue that one.

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Old
05-08-2009, 08:15 PM
  #39
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Okay, this is for everyone except the Flyer's fans who wouldn't do the trade now. We all agree Ottowa is giving too much.

How about Volchenkov - Elliot - 1st 09 for Giroux + 1st 09 + 3rd 09.

Probably still overpayment by Ottowa?

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05-08-2009, 08:16 PM
  #40
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
You can say what you want about me, but the only people who say Giroux is too much to give up is FLYER fans. Everyone else, including a gentleman who mentioned that he's watched Claude since Gatineau (as have I), has said that Ottawa overpays way too much.
I probably wouldn't do that trade if I were Ottawa, either. They have more needs than one top-6 forward. You aren't looking at this concept right. It's not just a matter of "fair value." Is there a glaring reason to do the deal? No, not from either side.


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Everyone sees why it is a great trade for the Flyers but the few of you guys.
Because it's not a great deal for a Flyers team that wants to win within the next 3-4 years.


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All I want to know is: What is the strength of our team's players (position and age-wise)? That's right, young forwards who are very talented. What are we lacking? Defense and Goalie. We'd be filling holes in addition to potentially getting someone better than Giroux.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about that concept? Makes perfect sense to me.
It's make perfect sense because you are oversimplifying and not looking at other options. It's a BAD deal for the Flyers. It wouldn't move us immediately forward toward a Cup. And, as I've stated SEVERAL times, we would most likely draft a player inferior to Giroux. If we wanted to make a big trade proposal for a CURRENT #1 goaltender, then we could dangle Giroux. Elliott is not that, and he may never be that. It's way too risky and Giroux will be extremely valuable for us in the upcoming season.

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05-08-2009, 08:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
But Volchenkov is more of a sure-thing than Giroux.

Can't argue that one.
Yes, he has proven to be a very good #3-4 defenseman. Personally, I like the guy a lot. Giroux's value is higher, though, because his potential is 1st line forward and he costs much less against the cap.

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05-08-2009, 08:20 PM
  #42
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post



It's make perfect sense because you are oversimplifying and not looking at other options. It's a BAD deal for the Flyers. It wouldn't move us immediately forward toward a Cup. And, as I've stated SEVERAL times, we would most likely draft a player inferior to Giroux. If we wanted to make a big trade proposal for a CURRENT #1 goaltender, then we could dangle Giroux. Elliott is not that, and he may never be that. It's way too risky and Giroux will be extremely valuable for us in the upcoming season.
That's total rubbish though...I see a HELL of a player in Jordan Schroeder. He was lights out in the WJC's playing on Colin Wilson and JVR's line.

Remember, Giroux has played about half a season so far in the NHL..let's not get his All-Star uniform pressed yet either. I love the kid, but christ he's being over-valued.

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05-08-2009, 08:25 PM
  #43
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God you guys are the typical HFBoards users. Judging a player by his potential

Yes Giroux has "potential" but that "potential" doesn't get him a package like that. Call me back when he is an 80 point scorer, but this guy hasn't even played a full-year and he gets that type of package? lol

And all you guys talking about how his contract is good, get real. He is on a rookie contract, what happens when he wants a huge pay raise? Are you guys really going to be able to pay Carter, Giroux, Richards, JVR, Briere, Gagne and Lupul to provide offense? Call us back when you have a terrible d-core and your goalie couldn't play backup on a normal team

The Flyers should jump on this offer because it comes once in a lifetime

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05-08-2009, 08:28 PM
  #44
mercury
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
That's total rubbish though...I see a HELL of a player in Jordan Schroeder. He was lights out in the WJC's playing on Colin Wilson and JVR's line.
It is not rubbish. Look at the last ten drafts, and the players taken at #9.

2008 - Josh Bailey
2007 - Logan Couture
2006 - James Sheppard
2005 - Brian Lee
2004 - Ladislav Smid
2003 - Dion Phaneuf
2002 - Petr Taticek
2001 - Tuomo Ruutu
2000 - Brent Krahn
1999 - Jamie Lundmark

Not a bunch of worldbeaters. Phaneuf is the only guy I'd rather have than Giroux. Maybe Ruutu at the time, before he proved to be a tin man. I know that this draft is a very good one, but you are WAY overvaluing the draft pick. The odds that we would take someone who could step right in and contribute even half of what Giroux should next year are not good.

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Remember, Giroux has played about half a season so far in the NHL..let's not get his All-Star uniform pressed yet either. I love the kid, but christ he's being over-valued.
I don't think that he is. I think that he is really, really valuable. More valuable than Volchenkov and Elliott, and, as we can see, the #9 pick is a crap shoot. I wouldn't do this deal from either team's perspective. Ottawa gives up too many assets, and the Flyers give up a tremendous young forward that we need. It's a non-starter for me.

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05-08-2009, 08:29 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
That is most likely true, and that's from someone who isn't even a Flyers fan.
I'm a Flyers fan.






<-----

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05-08-2009, 08:31 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Neither team does this. Giroux is a young superstar in the making, and Philadelphia would be stupid to trade him, especially before his ELC expires. This does address two large needs in the organization and more, but Philadelphia doesn't do it. Nobody outside of Tavares, Hedman, and maybe Duchene will be as good as Giroux will be.

Ottawa doesn't do it because of the amount of assets they are giving up. Volchenkov is a great defensive defenseman, Elliott is the future in net, and that 1st is a great asset. They can't justify giving up that much for a guy going into his 2nd year.
I think Okposo and Giroux will be at the same level of talent.

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05-08-2009, 08:35 PM
  #47
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i'm one of giroux's biggest fans, but no - this is a massive overpayment. If we draft kadri, glennie, josefson, etc. they could turn out to be as good as giroux. Plus we give away elliott and volchenkov, two of our most valuable pieces outside of the big 3.

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05-08-2009, 08:37 PM
  #48
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
God you guys are the typical HFBoards users. Judging a player by his potential

Yes Giroux has "potential" but that "potential" doesn't get him a package like that. Call me back when he is an 80 point scorer, but this guy hasn't even played a full-year and he gets that type of package? lol
It's a good package, it just doesn't help us right now. Sorry, I wouldn't trade Giroux for it.


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And all you guys talking about how his contract is good, get real. He is on a rookie contract, what happens when he wants a huge pay raise? Are you guys really going to be able to pay Carter, Giroux, Richards, JVR, Briere, Gagne and Lupul to provide offense? Call us back when you have a terrible d-core and your goalie couldn't play backup on a normal team
Lupul probably won't be on the team soon, Gagne will probably walk, Richards and Briere are locked up forever, and Carter will be an RFA at the end of this contract. Our defensive corps (and it's corps, BTW) is looking quite good with Timonen, Coburn, Sbisa, Carle, Marshall, and Bourdon. Biron was statistically about the 15th-best goalie in the league this season. Coincidentally, those numbers were better than two of your goalies, and comparable to Alex Auld. Also, he is a UFA. We don't have a goalie for next season yet. I wouldn't throw stones when your team has the #9 overall pick, and our team had a 99-point season and made the playoffs.


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The Flyers should jump on this offer because it comes once in a lifetime
I am pretty happy to pass.

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05-08-2009, 08:38 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
I think Okposo and Giroux will be at the same level of talent.
I think he meant in the 2009 Draft, right?

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05-08-2009, 08:40 PM
  #50
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Is bill elliott really the answer in the Flyers goal? I really do not see how this helps either team. The Senators give up good prospects for one good prospect, and the Flyers are pretty much built to win now. Only way giroux gets traded is if someone takes briere with him.

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