HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lethonen

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-08-2009, 02:39 AM
  #51
Tarpan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 486
vCash: 500
I think Lehtonen will be simply too pricey. Pavelec's name often comes up as a potential option. Atlanta is a bit turned off by him, at least the fans are, due to last summers little cry fest and an inability to show progress this year.

Pavelec would still be a solid option. I think that Cory Schneider would be an equally good or possibly better option. I imagine he'll be quite available this summer if/when Luongo signs a contract. The price would be a bit sketchy, but would likely cost a young forward.

I really like JVR and would love to see him here in Vancouver though I personally think Philly would be silly to move JVR if they have any other option. He's going to be a sexy beast.

Tarpan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 09:56 AM
  #52
pelts35.com
Registered User
 
pelts35.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarpan View Post
I think Lehtonen will be simply too pricey. Pavelec's name often comes up as a potential option. Atlanta is a bit turned off by him, at least the fans are, due to last summers little cry fest and an inability to show progress this year.
I'm not sure how you can say this. While he did not perform well at the NHL level, his numbers at the AHL level in his second season were better than his rookie season and the Wolves this season were significantly worse this season than they were last season (they scored 75 fewer goals in 08-09 than they did in 07-08 yet, as a team, allowed 2 fewer goals in 08-09).

IMO a goalie that puts up better numbers on a worse team showed progress from his rookie season to his sophomore one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarpan
I think that Cory Schneider would be an equally good or possibly better option. I imagine he'll be quite available this summer if/when Luongo signs a contract. The price would be a bit sketchy, but would likely cost a young forward.
I don't think that Vancouver will give Schneider. And, even if they do, the price tag will be extremely high.

pelts35.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 09:58 AM
  #53
LEIFey
Context Matters!
 
LEIFey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 7,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LEIFey
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I'm not sure how you can say this. While he did not perform well at the NHL level, his numbers at the AHL level in his second season were better than his rookie season and the Wolves this season were significantly worse this season than they were last season (they scored 75 fewer goals in 08-09 than they did in 07-08 yet, as a team, allowed 2 fewer goals in 08-09).

IMO a goalie that puts up better numbers on a worse team showed progress from his rookie season to his sophomore one.



I don't think that Vancouver will give Schneider. And, even if they do, the price tag will be extremely high.
i'll admit i know next to nothing about pavelec, but from what little i've seen, he doesn't look all that much better than niitty. niitty at least has better credentials.

LEIFey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 10:51 AM
  #54
pelts35.com
Registered User
 
pelts35.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
i'll admit i know next to nothing about pavelec, but from what little i've seen, he doesn't look all that much better than niitty. niitty at least has better credentials.
He does? Yes, it's the AHL, but in Pavelec's rookie season he was the starting goalie on a Calder Cup winning team. Niittymaki wasn't even the starter in his rookie AHL season.

pelts35.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 10:58 AM
  #55
Tarpan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
i'll admit i know next to nothing about pavelec, but from what little i've seen, he doesn't look all that much better than niitty. niitty at least has better credentials.
The big difference here is that Nitty is Nitty...Pavelec is still getting better and has a ton of upside.

Tarpan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 11:00 AM
  #56
Tarpan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I don't think that Vancouver will give Schneider. And, even if they do, the price tag will be extremely high.
I am not saying you're wrong, but I hope you are. As a Vancouver fan, I would love to see him dealt for something that we can use. As a Schneider fan, I would like to see him have a shot in the NHL and he simply won't get that anytime soon if Luongo signs an extension.

Tarpan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 11:11 AM
  #57
pelts35.com
Registered User
 
pelts35.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarpan View Post
I am not saying you're wrong, but I hope you are. As a Vancouver fan, I would love to see him dealt for something that we can use. As a Schneider fan, I would like to see him have a shot in the NHL and he simply won't get that anytime soon if Luongo signs an extension.
You are assuming that Luongo is going to sign an extension. Any chance they let him walk and see what Schneider can do at significantly less money?

pelts35.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 02:27 PM
  #58
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,295
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I'm not sure how you can say this. While he did not perform well at the NHL level, his numbers at the AHL level in his second season were better than his rookie season and the Wolves this season were significantly worse this season than they were last season (they scored 75 fewer goals in 08-09 than they did in 07-08 yet, as a team, allowed 2 fewer goals in 08-09).

IMO a goalie that puts up better numbers on a worse team showed progress from his rookie season to his sophomore one.



I don't think that Vancouver will give Schneider. And, even if they do, the price tag will be extremely high.
You know what, there are a whole lot of guys who perform very well at the AHL level and just never make it in the NHL. There are a lot more guys who can be great in the AHL but flop in the NHL (or at least are never anything more than an average to below average goalie). Case in point, our own Antiro Nittimaki. The one year he was the best goalie in the AHL. He carried the Flyers to the Caulder cup championship. I believe that the Flyers had the best record in the AHL that year and it wasn't because ofCarter and Richards, they only joined the team for the playoffs aftertheir junior teams were finished. Nitty also won Silver in the Olympics and was voted the tournament MVP. He out played Luongo, Brodeaur, Roy, Forsberg, Jagr, Lecavier, Thorton, and every other superstar in the NHL. Do you know what, he was never able to parley that into anything more than a very good backup or a low end started in the NHL.

Probably only one of Schneider, Pavelek, Halak and another top guy in the AHL actually become more than a top 15 goalie in the NHL and I'd be surprised if more than 2 are regular starters. the odds simply aren't with you. The point is, what has Pavelek, or any of th others for that matter, done to prove themselves as that one guy who's NOT a bust??? I understand that he can develop into a very good NHL goalie but the risk is still too great to be giving up any significant assets. If you are going to be giving up significant assets then you are better off going after a PROVEN and ESTABLISHED NHL starter. Go back and find me just 3 trades where an AHL goalie in the mould of Schneider, Halak or Pavelek were traded for a significant amount, somehting like a blue chip prospect like JVR (the player most people expect to get in return for their '1337' AHL goalie). It simply doesn't happen.

The thing is that most fans don't have a clue about the actual vaue of players in the NHL based upon the history of trades. Schneider, Pavelek and Halak haven't proven anything to make them worthy of returning anything but a late 1st at thisp oint and even that would only happen if a team were really desperate. There are better options out there on the FA market for the Flyers without having to give up assets. The first goalie in this years draft isn't projected to be taken until later in the 1st or early in the 2nd round. If the Flyers wanted they could probably draft the best goalie in this years draft with their pick at 20-22. We can sign a UFA goalie who will be better than Pavelek RIGHT NOW and we have our goalie if the future drafted who, as unproven as both are (one still in juniors, the other only showing success at the AHL level) the one we draft would have had a much much highter upside at the time of their draft.

At this point the best the Fyers would likely offer for any of those goalies I named would be Lupul but that has you taking on salary. He's the flat out best player we'd most likely be willing to offer up. If that's not enough then prospects like Marshall and Nodl. If teams don't feel they are getting enough for their goalie prospect then they can simply hold on to them until they actually PROVE something at the NHL level and warrent a higher return. However, they run the risk of proving that their elite goalie prospect simply isn't cut out to be a top end NHL goalie and his value will drop even further. If you don't think that's likely just go ask the Rangers how it worked out with Montoya. Everybody was falling all over themselves over Montoya (he was regarded much higher than Schneider, Pavelek or Halak) and the Rangers felt that he was worth more than they were being offered for him so they held on to him. He flopped and they ended up trading him and only getting something like a 3rd for him after his value plummitted.

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 06:28 PM
  #59
pelts35.com
Registered User
 
pelts35.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 11,612
vCash: 500
Phlocky,

That's fine that you quoted me, but I don't want you to misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying in the least that Pavelec is going to be a starter in the NHL. All I was questioning was how someone could say that he didn't show progress when it's only his second season and did in fact show progress from his rookie season to his sophomore one.

That said as an avid fan of the AHL I'm well aware that there are a lot of players (both goalies and position players) who put up phenomenal numbers at the AHL level that can't hack it at the NHL level. Certainly this organization, like all others, have seen its share.

BTW, the season you are referring to the Phantoms did not have the best record in the AHL. In fact they didn't even win their division. And, while yes, Richards and Carter weren't added to the roster until the playoffs, that was a very good team with the likes of Umberger, Sim, Sharp, Slaney, Seidenberg, and Pitkanen. I'd also question if the team would have done just as well with Neil Little in net given that his numbers were comparable to Niittymaki's.

BTW, Niittymaki was never the best goaltender in the AHL. In the Calder Cup winning season he did win the Jack Butterfield trophy for being the MVP of the Calder Cup playoffs.

pelts35.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2009, 08:30 PM
  #60
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,234
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
You are assuming that Luongo is going to sign an extension. Any chance they let him walk and see what Schneider can do at significantly less money?
I definitely doubt it. That is the type of move you make when you have Marty Biron asking for 5 million, or Roloson, or some other decent but not amazing goalie. When you have Luongo you fight to keep Luongo, as the potential drop off in play at the position is HUGE.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.