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Did we rush O'Byrne into the NHL?

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Old
05-08-2009, 12:50 PM
  #26
Mad Habber
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I don't think anyone was "rushed".

After you dominate at one level, it is time to move on to the next. That's what John Tavares' father argued to fastrack his son to the OHL as an underager, and he won his case.

O'Byrne was a top defenseman in the AHL when he got the call up. Last year he looked alright, no superstar but he looked like a rookie with potential. This year, his responsibility were increased and he didn't fare as well, but looked better in the end, which is normal for most players. He'll be better next year I bet.

Price absolutely dominated the AHL in his short stint. He didn't belong there except for a conditioning stint. Sure he has a problem with attitude or dedication or good judgment off the ice. Heck get on here at midnight tonight, and there will be more than a few people typing drunk messages and those same people will condemn Price for drinking at some point throughout the season. This is where he is and has to learn. He's proven he can handle the AHL shooters. He's proven he can handle NHL shooters. Now he has to prove he can handle the NHL lifestyle and to my knowledge, you only learn that in the NHL not the AHL.

Guys coming in and dominating the NHL is the exception, not the rule. Most need time to adjust and learn. The AHL is filled with all-stars who can't play in the NHL.

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05-08-2009, 01:44 PM
  #27
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Ryan O'Byrne reminds me of Jethro Bodine from the Beverly Hillbillies...a big galute who's size is more of an asset than his talent. He's bad luck and an accident waiting to happen. Some guys just have that dark cloud hanging over them no matter what...I believe he's one of those guys.
What's the first thing you think of when you hear the name "Ryan O'Byrne"?
The guy who stole a lady's purse? The guy who scored in his own net?
I'm sure nobody says, "Oh, Ryan O'Byrne? He's that young, up-and-coming defenseman with the Montreal Canadiens. He's going to be a great player some day!" Not likely!
The Habs should just trade him while he's somewhat of a prospect because once everyone realizes that he's as good now as he's ever going to get, it'll be too late and we'll wishing we had to.
Just get rid of him now! Remove any and all evidence of him! Burn all of his old equipment...hose down and disinfect his locker...heavily fine anyone who even mentions his name! I'm telling you all now, bad luck will follow this guy forever.
He's a jinx, a kluts, an Aki Berg if you will!

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05-08-2009, 03:21 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
I don't think anyone was "rushed".

After you dominate at one level, it is time to move on to the next. That's what John Tavares' father argued to fastrack his son to the OHL as an underager, and he won his case.

O'Byrne was a top defenseman in the AHL when he got the call up. Last year he looked alright, no superstar but he looked like a rookie with potential. This year, his responsibility were increased and he didn't fare as well, but looked better in the end, which is normal for most players. He'll be better next year I bet.

Price absolutely dominated the AHL in his short stint. He didn't belong there except for a conditioning stint. Sure he has a problem with attitude or dedication or good judgment off the ice. Heck get on here at midnight tonight, and there will be more than a few people typing drunk messages and those same people will condemn Price for drinking at some point throughout the season. This is where he is and has to learn. He's proven he can handle the AHL shooters. He's proven he can handle NHL shooters. Now he has to prove he can handle the NHL lifestyle and to my knowledge, you only learn that in the NHL not the AHL.

Guys coming in and dominating the NHL is the exception, not the rule. Most need time to adjust and learn. The AHL is filled with all-stars who can't play in the NHL.
O'Byrne is maybe one of them !

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05-08-2009, 04:33 PM
  #29
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You know what gets me...anytime a player doesn't pan out in Montreal it's always..."we rushed him". Why is it that most NHL teams can bring up rookies, either right from the draft or a year in the AHL with immediate success. The Habs on the other hand, let them rot for years in the AHL. I'm starting to wonder what the problem with player developement with this team.

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05-08-2009, 04:37 PM
  #30
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rushed O'Byrne? He's what 24-25?

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05-08-2009, 04:38 PM
  #31
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We probably did, but when he first came up he looked alright when he was babysat. Now he needs Lidstrom beside him to look good.

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05-08-2009, 05:14 PM
  #32
vokiel
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We didn't rush O'Byrne, he's was just an average defense man to begin with and probably will still be next year and for several years to come. If he ever gets to be regular in the NHL then he'll get the experience to patch up some of his deficiencies, hopefully.

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05-08-2009, 05:30 PM
  #33
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I don't think we rushed him. We gave him experience in the NHL.

I think the comparison with Ericsson is bad.

O'Byrne when called up last year I think, was doing quite well before injuring his finger. After that, there was some distractions as we know..in TB.

Komisarek looked horrible in his first seasons here.
His first year called up, he played 21Games. Second year called, he played 46Games. In his third year, he finally earn a spot and played 71Games.
O'Byrne played 33Games last year. This year, 37. We'll see how he performs next year, but I haven't given up on him.

Some improvements are required, but I'm not giving up on him yet.

I also like to add that it's always going to be easier for your youngster to develop on a team that has Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall and a veteran like Chelios on D, on top of having forwards like Zetterberg, Hossa, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Franzen, etc..

Detroit is an all-star team. Put any of our youngsters on that team and chances are they'll perform much better.
That's only normal.

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05-08-2009, 05:32 PM
  #34
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We rushed Price and Latendresse.

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Old
05-08-2009, 10:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
We rushed all our crops, except for A.Kost.
Ya, and a bunch of the guys on this site are calling for Subban to play here next year. I don't think so.

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05-08-2009, 10:56 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I don't think we rushed him. We gave him experience in the NHL.

I think the comparison with Ericsson is bad.

O'Byrne when called up last year I think, was doing quite well before injuring his finger. After that, there was some distractions as we know..in TB.

Komisarek looked horrible in his first seasons here.
His first year called up, he played 21Games. Second year called, he played 46Games. In his third year, he finally earn a spot and played 71Games.
O'Byrne played 33Games last year. This year, 37. We'll see how he performs next year, but I haven't given up on him.

Some improvements are required, but I'm not giving up on him yet.

I also like to add that it's always going to be easier for your youngster to develop on a team that has Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall and a veteran like Chelios on D, on top of having forwards like Zetterberg, Hossa, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Franzen, etc..

Detroit is an all-star team. Put any of our youngsters on that team and chances are they'll perform much better.
That's only normal.
Great post Kris. I agree with all that you said.

Remember how good Hainsey and Komisarek were when they were still young playing for the habs? I do: they sucked.

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Old
05-09-2009, 01:12 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
O'Byrne is maybe one of them !
I think you give up too quickly. He may end up a career AHLer, but he has shown enough at this point to warrent another look.

If Valentenko would have stayed last year, the Habs probably would have returned OB to the minors quicker. At the time there was no one else they could recall. Janik only came later. Weber wasn't ready halfway through the season. Carle may never be ready. And the rest probably had to go trhough recall waivers. So it isn't like they had much of a choice.

A little more time may be all he needs.

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05-09-2009, 02:04 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
I think you give up too quickly. He may end up a career AHLer, but he has shown enough at this point to warrent another look.

If Valentenko would have stayed last year, the Habs probably would have returned OB to the minors quicker. At the time there was no one else they could recall. Janik only came later. Weber wasn't ready halfway through the season. Carle may never be ready. And the rest probably had to go trhough recall waivers. So it isn't like they had much of a choice.

A little more time may be all he needs.
Time and patience...

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Old
05-09-2009, 02:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
You know what gets me...anytime a player doesn't pan out in Montreal it's always..."we rushed him". Why is it that most NHL teams can bring up rookies, either right from the draft or a year in the AHL with immediate success. The Habs on the other hand, let them rot for years in the AHL. I'm starting to wonder what the problem with player developement with this team.
That and drafting the wrong players over and over again.

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05-09-2009, 02:19 PM
  #40
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It's easy for the Wings to wait and developpe players like Erikson, they a mutafacking club that is winning cups after cups and are strong at every positions; the Habs had to start from scratch, and they are still far from Detroit stability.

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05-09-2009, 05:26 PM
  #41
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BTW as the OP I was just wanting to create a debate... I don't think he was rushed

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05-09-2009, 07:40 PM
  #42
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Yes, yes I do. Besides Price...I don't think anyone else was rushed. Latendresse had a lot of difficulties but that was expected and I believe had we left him another year in the juniors, it would have been more difficult for him to get rid of some nasty habits.

All our other young guns weren't rushed. D'Agostini, Price, Pleks, A.Kost all spent at least 2-3 years in the minors.
price only spent around the equivalent of half a season (playoffs plus couple of games the next year)

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05-09-2009, 08:06 PM
  #43
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If they rushed O'Byrne into service prematurely it might have been they were thin in their defensive corps. I didn't see many logical alternatives to O'Byrne, so Gainey's hand was forced in a way.

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05-09-2009, 08:22 PM
  #44
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Yes. He's still pathetic now.

When he doesn't have Markov to make him look good, we see Komisarek for what he really is : an average bottom pairing defenseman.
If you just typed "I don't really follow hockey" it would get the exact same result but with much fewer words.

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05-09-2009, 10:01 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by blarneylad View Post
Great post Kris. I agree with all that you said.

Remember how good Hainsey and Komisarek were when they were still young playing for the habs? I do: they sucked.
But... Komisarek wasn't exactly a force out there this year either. This doesn't make me excited about O'Byrne's future...

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05-10-2009, 12:05 AM
  #46
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I do not think we are rushing anyone, there are several factors when playing a rookie, you need to put them in position where they will succeed. and we did not always do that. Latendress is a prime example IMO.

Obyrne needs coaching and I think we need a Dmen coach. He will be fine. I though he was one of our best D in the playoff. Give him a good partner like Beauchemin or Bowmeester or Markov and he will start progressing again.

We have to be patient with these guys some of them are late bloomers Obyrne is one of them IMO. Has he get more experience he will get better.

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05-10-2009, 12:09 AM
  #47
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No...he just sucks but we needed a big body. He doesn't seem to improve. I was willing to give him a bye in his last few games until the last one where he objectively cost us the goals that gave them the tie and lead and then the series. Not fit for NHL and I just don't see him improving. Definitely cares about the team, but I don't want him in our top six. Oh and I know about making Beauchemin-like juedgements. This is not the same premature opinion. He just is not good enough.

re: price....we didn't rush him. He's different. he's having all his struggles now and that's the way bob wants it. He will benefit from all this (yes, as dire as it seems).

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05-10-2009, 12:10 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
We didn't rush O'Byrne, he's was just an average defense man to begin with and probably will still be next year and for several years to come. If he ever gets to be regular in the NHL then he'll get the experience to patch up some of his deficiencies, hopefully.

Exactly! exactly what we said with Hainsey, Beauchemin, Streit (average on D) ... are players are gaining experience here and succeeding elsewhere because people can't live with the fact that it takes stars to develop stars and it takes time to develop project and where you draft a guy from high school like Obyrne... you need lots of time.

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05-10-2009, 12:13 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
No...he just sucks but we needed a big body. He doesn't seem to improve. I was willing to give him a bye in his last few games until the last one where he objectively cost us the goals that gave them the tie and lead and then the series. Not fit for NHL and I just don't see him improving. Definitely cares about the team, but I don't want him in our top six. Oh and I know about making Beauchemin-like juedgements. This is not the same premature opinion. He just is not good enough.
He played better the Komisarek/Webber and not that far behind Hamerlik... He does not play big so his big body is not that needed. He will make a fine Dmen if he is groomed properly which is not necessarily the case...

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05-10-2009, 12:26 AM
  #50
Slick Nick
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O'byrne can't play in this league.

Please trade him within the division.

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