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Sens 1st and Fisher to move up

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Old
05-09-2009, 10:15 AM
  #26
Dick Whitman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Ponikarovsky , if you knew how to spell his name in english , averaged just 15 minutes of ice time per game .

Now run along to the Senators board .
A leaf lover who doesn't get a Cherry'ism. Weird, wild stuff.

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05-09-2009, 10:17 AM
  #27
Homesick
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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
To your point, I really don't see why people consider Fisher a negative commodity. I could see Edmonton wanting him, Calgary, Pittsburgh (as a winger)... If Fisher doesn't score at a 50 point pace, and play as solidly defensively as ever next season, I will be very, very surprised.
Please explain why Edmonton would want Mike Fisher and his contract, when we already have Shawn Horcoff(with a 1.2m larger cap hit) on the team?
Horcoff, Gagner, Cogliano, O'Sullivan, and Brodziak all play centre

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05-09-2009, 10:18 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
For 1 season? WOW! 19 goals and 41 points per 82 games in 4 seasons before that. And that's pretty reflective of Pocahonski's skills (each season extremely close to career averages). If you're giving Pocahonsky enough ice time to put up 60 points... don't be surprised if you miss the playoffs .
Also , here is another thing ..... Last 4 seasons of Alexei Ponikarovsky :

Last 4 seasons , Alexei Ponikarovsky is on pace for :

23 goals , and about 50 points . Last season he scored 23 goals , and 61 points .

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05-09-2009, 10:21 AM
  #29
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The Kings would be a better trading partner with Fisher in the mix than Spezza. The elements Fish would bring to LA is what a young team would need. Could the 9th and Fish be enough for the 5th? Probably. But Bryan Murray has stated he will not approach Fisher about a trade, and Fisher has gone on the record as well.

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05-09-2009, 10:21 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Please explain why Edmonton would want Mike Fisher and his contract, when we already have Shawn Horcoff(with a 1.2m larger cap hit) on the team?
Horcoff, Gagner, Cogliano, O'Sullivan, and Brodziak all play centre
Well, I think down the middle he could be huge for you guys on the 3rd line, but also, he is probably just as effective on the wing. He could either wing on line 2 or 3 and help a ton. In my opinion, anyways.

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05-09-2009, 10:25 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGSens View Post
The Kings would be a better trading partner with Fisher in the mix than Spezza. The elements Fish would bring to LA is what a young team would need. Could the 9th and Fish be enough for the 5th? Probably. But Bryan Murray has stated he will not approach Fisher about a trade, and Fisher has gone on the record as well.
If the Kings need a scrappy 2-way center wouldn't they be best off drafting Brayden Schenn at 5th overall? I think Fisher's value will be to a playoff team not rebuilders.

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05-09-2009, 10:26 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGSens View Post
The elements Fish would bring to LA is what a young team would need. Could the 9th and Fish be enough for the 5th? Probably.


They've already got their Mike Fisher in Michal Handzus. Even if they didn't, that trade is absolutely brutal.

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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
Well, I think down the middle he could be huge for you guys on the 3rd line, but also, he is probably just as effective on the wing. He could either wing on line 2 or 3 and help a ton. In my opinion, anyways.
Makes sense

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05-09-2009, 10:28 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
Well, I think down the middle he could be huge for you guys on the 3rd line, but also, he is probably just as effective on the wing. He could either wing on line 2 or 3 and help a ton. In my opinion, anyways.
Great our 3rd line now has a cap hit of 8.7 million. The only way Fisher ends up in Edmonton is if Horcoff is going the other way.

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05-09-2009, 10:31 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post


They've already got their Mike Fisher in Michal Handzus. Even if they didn't, that trade is absolutely brutal.


Makes sense
Handzus probably still has nightmares about Mike Fisher.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY0V6HLkTwc

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05-09-2009, 10:31 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by J. Greenstein View Post
If the Kings need a scrappy 2-way center wouldn't they be best off drafting Brayden Schenn at 5th overall? I think Fisher's value will be to a playoff team not rebuilders.
It's not like my original post said trading down would also be a possibility.

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05-09-2009, 10:53 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Ponikarovsky is not as good defensively as Fisher , but Alexei is no slouch himself . He has 3 inches on Mike Fisher and would be a great winger on any team's 2nd line or even on the 1st line alongside a really talented #1 star centre . Mike Fisher is probably limited to the 3rd line role . And since the top 8 teams picking in the 2009 draft are more rebuild oriented , I HIGHLY DOUBT THEY WOULD WANT to trade down to pick up a 3rd line "shut-down" type centre .
So there's 2 lines difference between Pocahonsky and Fisher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Please explain why Edmonton would want Mike Fisher and his contract, when we already have Shawn Horcoff(with a 1.2m larger cap hit) on the team?
Horcoff, Gagner, Cogliano, O'Sullivan, and Brodziak all play centre
He isn't and we'd never, never, never take Horcoff's contract in return for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Also , here is another thing ..... Last 4 seasons of Alexei Ponikarovsky :

Last 4 seasons , Alexei Ponikarovsky is on pace for :

23 goals , and about 50 points . Last season he scored 23 goals , and 61 points .
That's pretty cool. Playing on the one team in the NHL bad enough to play him as a 1st liner for 1 season increased his per season point total by 10 points over 5 year? Wow. Still missed the playoffs though right? Maybe the next team will realize that many minutes going to pocahonsky is a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGSens View Post
The Kings would be a better trading partner with Fisher in the mix than Spezza. The elements Fish would bring to LA is what a young team would need. Could the 9th and Fish be enough for the 5th? Probably. But Bryan Murray has stated he will not approach Fisher about a trade, and Fisher has gone on the record as well.
They already have Dustin Brown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Great our 3rd line now has a cap hit of 8.7 million. The only way Fisher ends up in Edmonton is if Horcoff is going the other way.
Yuck, I'd be extremely pissed if we were paying Horcoff $5.5M a season to be carried by his wingers.

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05-09-2009, 10:55 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
So there's 2 lines difference between Pocahonsky and Fisher?

That's pretty cool. Playing on the one team in the NHL bad enough to play him as a 1st liner for 1 season increased his per season point total by 10 points over 5 year? Wow. Still missed the playoffs though right? Maybe the next team will realize that many minutes going to pocahonsky is a problem.
What the , just stop please like honestly ......

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Old
05-09-2009, 10:59 AM
  #38
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What the , just stop please like honestly ......
I don't think there was one thing in that entire post that made any sense.

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Old
05-09-2009, 11:11 AM
  #39
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Fisher's bad contract is not going to move you up in the draft... probably the opposite direction actually.

I would trade TOR 7th overall for OTT 9th and 39th overall... we can still get a blue chip prospect a couple spots lower, and we'd have 3 second rounders. Chances are at least one of the three will turn out to be good.

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05-09-2009, 11:12 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
If you're giving Pocahonsky enough ice time to put up 60 points... don't be surprised if you miss the playoffs .
You're typically a sharp guy Trent, but honestly, you're wrong here. Poni didn't get first line minutes, and his play this year was a legit upgrade over previous seasons. It always surprises me how underrated he is, opinions will change on him once he gets dealt, just like happened with Antropov. Anyways, this is a side issue, so we should probably drop it.

So far as Fisher goes, I wouldn't want him for free, but other teams might feel differently. It's a big contract for a guy who has trouble scoring, so the Sens are probably going to keep him - which is probably fine with them. I don't think he'd move them up in the draft, so its all a moot point.

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05-09-2009, 11:31 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post

I doubt very much that the Sens see it that way.

Actually, I doubt very much that the Sens put a lot of stock in any stat produced under Hartsburg.
I didn't think the Isles-Sens matched up well as trade partners.

Isles like Neilsen's potential and he's signed very cheaply for another 3 yrs.I think the isles entire 3rd line(Bergy-Neilsen-Hunter), won't make as much combined as Fisher will next season.

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05-09-2009, 12:05 PM
  #42
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No chance the Kings trade for Fisher when they already have Handzus, Stoll and the chance to draft Schenn.

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05-09-2009, 12:20 PM
  #43
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I don't think Fisher is going to have any value at the draft (because of the contract) but I also think he is getting sold a little short in this discussion. And, as an Islander fan, I'd take Fisher before Kaberle, who Leaf fans seem to think is going to get them Hedman.

Oh, and I think Ponikarovsky has been about as good in the last season as Toronto fans are claiming. I'd go so far as to say that he is one of the more underrated players in the conference.

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05-09-2009, 02:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by J. Greenstein View Post
If the Kings need a scrappy 2-way center wouldn't they be best off drafting Brayden Schenn at 5th overall? I think Fisher's value will be to a playoff team not rebuilders.
But if LA wants to be a playoff team, a player with his grit and leadership will be needed. Would Schenn be a good pick? Probably, but he is 2-3 years away from having an impact. LA needs to win, and start doing it now. And they would then get the 9th pick, where they could pick up another prospect that could be 2-3 years away, like Schroeder.

Look Fisher is a better player and brings more to the table than Zues and Stoll. What hurts Fish is the length of his ticket.

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05-09-2009, 02:42 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGSens View Post
The Kings would be a better trading partner with Fisher in the mix than Spezza. The elements Fish would bring to LA is what a young team would need. Could the 9th and Fish be enough for the 5th? Probably. But Bryan Murray has stated he will not approach Fisher about a trade, and Fisher has gone on the record as well.
Considering they already have Stoll and Handzus, Fisher would be redundant.

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05-09-2009, 02:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I don't think Fisher is going to have any value at the draft (because of the contract) but I also think he is getting sold a little short in this discussion. And, as an Islander fan, I'd take Fisher before Kaberle, who Leaf fans seem to think is going to get them Hedman.

Oh, and I think Ponikarovsky has been about as good in the last season as Toronto fans are claiming. I'd go so far as to say that he is one of the more underrated players in the conference.
look at the allegiances of all the posters replying. It's quite obvious why.

Poni is a bargain, but that doesnt make fisher a bad deal. I still think fisher is paid fair salary for what he normally does, which is 20-20 + 150 hits. He had an off season this year, but so did the entire team. I dont want to trade him because of one bad season, and i certainly dont want to trade him as a salary dump and move down in the draft as a result of that.

While i doubt fisher has much draft value, as teams dont bring on that kind of salary with just draft picks, Fisher definately still has trade value to many teams, as long as they can match salary in the trade.

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05-09-2009, 02:45 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Golden Senator View Post
Do people know the definition of two-way forwards?
do people know what overpaid is ? Fisher has value to a team that expects to go deep in the playoffs, but can a team like that afford his cap hit? not likely A poor team has no reason to take on a fisher,

he doesnt help this kind of offer he hurts it,

And Trent get off this one year garbage, you are a one line team with Chris Campoli as your offensive defenseman, The Isles are lousy, but its not like Ottawa will be a 90 point team next year. Fisher is part of your big Problem, no secondary scoring, you can afford to have a guy like Fisher if you have a good second line to go with your great first line, but your 2nd and 3rd lines are black holes


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05-10-2009, 10:06 AM
  #48
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You're typically a sharp guy Trent, but honestly, you're wrong here. Poni didn't get first line minutes, and his play this year was a legit upgrade over previous seasons. It always surprises me how underrated he is, opinions will change on him once he gets dealt, just like happened with Antropov. Anyways, this is a side issue, so we should probably drop it.

So far as Fisher goes, I wouldn't want him for free, but other teams might feel differently. It's a big contract for a guy who has trouble scoring, so the Sens are probably going to keep him - which is probably fine with them. I don't think he'd move them up in the draft, so its all a moot point.
My bad (PUI), I looked up his season and you're right. He only had 2 mins of PP time per game, which makes his season very impressive actually. 61 points with only 13 PP points is difficult to achieve (usually about 8 guys a year can crack 60 without 20 PPP's). I hadn't followed Ponikarovsky's breakout and he didn't appear ppreciably different on the ice to me. However, due to his age... like Horcoff and everybody else, I'll be betting against a repeat of mid-career breakout numbers.

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And Trent get off this one year garbage, you are a one line team with Chris Campoli as your offensive defenseman, The Isles are lousy, but its not like Ottawa will be a 90 point team next year. Fisher is part of your big Problem, no secondary scoring, you can afford to have a guy like Fisher if you have a good second line to go with your great first line, but your 2nd and 3rd lines are black holes
In the two years before this one, Ottawa was 1st and 2nd in the NHL in scoring with Schaefer/etc-Fisher-Neil/etc as a 2nd line and without any D-men cracking 40 points. Foligno & Shannon are more talented than Schaefer & Neil. Kuba and Campoli have proven capable of producing 35 points and guys like Lee & Picard are still trying to establish themselves as offensive D-men with their first full NHL seasons.

We'll be a 90 point team next season.
- 07-08 was due to piss poor goaltending. We were 15-2 to start largely because we got .925 goaltending. For the remaining 65 games (28-29-8), we got a craptacular .895 with Gerber choking in clutch situations every chance he got.

- 08-09... Worst offense in the NHL under Hartsburg and amongst the best under Clouston.

Barring another gigantic catastrophe and Murray sitting on his hands until it is too late, Ottawa's going to make the playoffs next year.

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05-10-2009, 10:12 AM
  #49
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Fisher would more likely be traded to move up from our second round pick into the late first round.

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05-10-2009, 11:20 AM
  #50
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Barring another gigantic catastrophe and Murray sitting on his hands until it is too late, Ottawa's going to make the playoffs next year.
I agree, I expect them to be a playoff team next year. Clouston's somebody I believe in, he really turned that team around when he took over.

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