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09/10 - Could this work?

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Old
05-10-2009, 01:56 AM
  #1
Tender Rip
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09/10 - Could this work?

After the last couple of games euphoria might be getting the better of me, but as some here will know I am otherwise a perma-bear on cap-issues and thus grap for positives anywhere I can.

With Talbot on the second line, this has been energized and solidified because of his pace, hustle and backchecking. Feds might well need a raise, but assuming we give him, say, 2.5 - could we just leave that line as is and wait for the prospects to come through/show themselves worthy (Pesonen/Caputi/Tangradi)?
Add Zigomanis (.8), add a fourth line grinder or Jeffrey (.5), and deal Dupuis somewhere. Sign Gogo (1.0) and Lovejoy (.8).

Kunitz Crosby XXXX
Feds Malkin Talbot
Cooke Staal Kennedy
Grinder Zigo Godard

Sarge Orpik
Letang Eaton
Gogo XXXX
Lovejoy

Fleury
Curry

This is 51 million outright. There's likely just about room to offer Scuderi 2 million and spend 3 million on another winger for Sid. Would be awesome to keep Scuds around considering how important he has become for us.

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05-10-2009, 02:08 AM
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Pick87your71Poison
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Sounds reasonable in general. Would defintely be huge if we can hold onto Scuds. We'll have to see how much his market value has increased, but I am not overly optimistic. Earlier in the year I don't htink most people viewed him as a defensive strength, but recently, with the playoff run and him being an anchor back there, people are going to see enough of him and make it tougher for us.

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05-10-2009, 06:52 AM
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gogasson
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Problem may be that Bobby Scuds is turning into the defensive defensivman that many teams would like. It is like Orpiks playoff run last year, good game after good game is making is next contract bigger and bigger.
Hopefully, Feds can keep working the way he has lately, and with the system in WBS, there are several players ready so step up into that 3rd/4th line role.

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05-10-2009, 07:06 AM
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Coach John McGuirk
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Hopefully Scuderi isn't playing himself out of our price range. I'm a huge Scuderi fan, and have been for a while. He seems like an awesome guy off the ice as well as on, and I wouldn't be surprised if he stuck around at a "discount."

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05-10-2009, 07:23 AM
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Well, I personally have a hard time making it seem OK that all the money goes to Crosby's wingers whereas we get Geno's support from whatever we can within.

But at the same time, I really want Scuds to stay, and I think that having a solid defense is ultimately more important for our Cup chances than giving Geno better material.

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05-10-2009, 07:38 AM
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I think your lineup is pretty fair estimation of what will actually happen, but I think Scuderi is a definite keeper and his price will determine what's left for the 'scoring' winger.

I say that in quotes because we're probably more likely to add another guy like Cooke than a true scoring threat with the money we'll have.

I'm calling for Pesonen, Jeffrey, and possibly Caputi to play a role on the wings next year. I also think that Kennedy could fulfill a top 6 role in some capacity.

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05-10-2009, 07:50 AM
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As far as the Crosby wingers vs. Malkin wingers thing:

It's apparent that they can both carry their own line, but in order for them to produce to their full potential, getting a legitimate winger for one, if not both, is an issue that needs to be addressed. Imagine what they would do with consistent wingers who brought it every night. Still, I think Crosby's winger garners more money when being addressed, because it takes a top-flight player to get the most out of playing with Crosby. Malkin seems to be a little easier to play with, but Crosby seems to be going pedal to the metal from the time he hits the ice to the time he gets back to the bench.

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05-10-2009, 08:38 AM
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Something has to happen with that 2nd line.

I do think this is about how things will shake out

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05-10-2009, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Something has to happen with that 2nd line.

I do think this is about how things will shake out
Fedotenko-Malkin-Talbot is working right now but it certainly won't help Malkin's shot at a scoring title next year when Fedotenko pulls his disappearing act and Talbot plays like a 4th liner. It works now because those two games elevate their game in a big way in the playoffs.

We might not have any options though.

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05-10-2009, 09:28 AM
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What i do not get is peoples fascination with ziggy yeah so he wins face offs but can he contribute other wise

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05-10-2009, 09:37 AM
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Ziggy was a very good 4th line center before he was injured.

Very good skater for a bottom liner and a good passer as well.

A lot of this is going to depend on what the cap ends up at next year - I think we're set down the left wing and obviously at center - we're going to have to find two above average RW's I think to play with Malkin and Crosby - as much as I like Talbot I'm not sold on his ability to play there for a whole year.

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05-10-2009, 09:39 AM
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Darth Vitale
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Sure that could work, and is probably one of the more realistic scenarios salary wise if we're going for bona fide 1st line winger with the money saved from Sykora, Satan and Gill. And I think Lovejoy will almost certainly make the team next year as a regular so pencil him into Gill's spot most likely.

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05-10-2009, 10:29 AM
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Let's not go crazy with all the re-sign Fedotenko stuff. The guy is producing in the clutch, no doubt about it, and thank God for that because so few others have for us. But that doesn't change the fact that he pulled a fairly lengthy disappearing act since the heroic 2004 Cup run.

Also, just like last summer, expect some of our UFA's to get better offers elsewhere. We are a high-profile team and if we manage to reach the final four again, the guys that are playing well are going to garner a lot of attention on the open market. I mean, Adam Hall received a multi-year deal last summer!

I would love Fedotenko back on a one-year deal but I doubt that's possible. I would much rather leave that roster spot open for Caputi, Zabotel and later on Tangradi and Veilleux (when their rehab from surgery is over) to compete for it. Then, we can save a little more cap space for that third-wheel scoring winger that we obviously need.

The only way I see Fedotenko fitting in on this roster next year is if we decide to deal Kunitz. I don't think we can afford to have both, because we do need a skilled winger first and foremost.

Fedotenko or Kunitz? There are pros and cons to keeping each.

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05-10-2009, 11:31 AM
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maxpenguins6630
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I could be wrong but I think Scuds will accept less money to stay in Pittsburgh a bit like an hometown discount...

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05-10-2009, 11:49 AM
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I agree with the many comments about Scuderi and the difficulty we'll have in retaining him. He has been fantastic in the playoffs this year and is no doubt drawing interest around the league. He may be playing himself outta town...

I'm thinking Scuderi can get about $3.5 Mil on the open market this summer. That will make things tough on the Pens...

This time last year, no one would have expected Whitney to be gone now and it would have been quite unpopular to suggest he would. This time next season, its possible that one of Staal or Orpik may no longer be around... I hope not, but those are two big $$$ players that are very attractive to other teams. Gonch at his age an with his recent injuries will not be so attractive.


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05-10-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocchet22 View Post
I'm thinking Scuderi can get about $3.5 Mil on the open market this summer. That will make things tough on the Pens...
If Scuds get an offer like this on the open market, then he's LONG gone...

I love Scuds and it's great to see that he's worked his way up from being P.E #1 on these boards to a guy that most think will fetch $3 mil + on the open market, but if that's his market value than you can count on seeing him take a walk.

Home town discount, when he could get close to $4 mil a season elsewhere?

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05-10-2009, 12:00 PM
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tocchet92
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Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
Home town discount, when he could get close to $4 mil a season elsewhere?
.. right. no defensman would wanna do something like that to stay with the Pens... errr.. ummm.. (#44)

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05-10-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tocchet22 View Post
.. right. no defensman would wanna do something like that to stay with the Pens... errr.. ummm.. (#44)
Yeah, but Brooks got $4 mil from the Pens, Scuds will not come close.

I wasn't making fun of you, so much as I was making the point that Scuds knows that if that kind of money is available somewhere else, that he should probably chase after it.

The main reason is because I don't see the Pens giving him anymore than $2.5 mil, at absolute most.

Also, not everyone does what Brooks Orpik did buy staying around like that, in fact almost nobody does.

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05-10-2009, 12:18 PM
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Pick87your71Poison
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Originally Posted by maxpenguins6630 View Post
I could be wrong but I think Scuds will accept less money to stay in Pittsburgh a bit like an hometown discount...
I hope so and that would be awesome, but I will never assume that until it actually happens.

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05-10-2009, 12:26 PM
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Illinest
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I think you can look at Malkin's line to get a pretty good feel for the value certain skillsets can bring to the team. He currently has two linemates who have skillsets conducive to winning the puck. Talbot plays the boards fairly well, he backchecks and plays defense. Fedotenko also possesses those attributes to some degree.

You can get guys who do those things relatively cheap. Talbot = 1 mil

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05-10-2009, 12:38 PM
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I'd trade staal for a good winger

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05-10-2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
After the last couple of games euphoria might be getting the better of me, but as some here will know I am otherwise a perma-bear on cap-issues and thus grap for positives anywhere I can.

With Talbot on the second line, this has been energized and solidified because of his pace, hustle and backchecking. Feds might well need a raise, but assuming we give him, say, 2.5 - could we just leave that line as is and wait for the prospects to come through/show themselves worthy (Pesonen/Caputi/Tangradi)?
Add Zigomanis (.8), add a fourth line grinder or Jeffrey (.5), and deal Dupuis somewhere. Sign Gogo (1.0) and Lovejoy (.8).

Kunitz Crosby XXXX
Feds Malkin Talbot
Cooke Staal Kennedy
Grinder Zigo Godard

Sarge Orpik
Letang Eaton
Gogo XXXX
Lovejoy

Fleury
Curry

This is 51 million outright. There's likely just about room to offer Scuderi 2 million and spend 3 million on another winger for Sid. Would be awesome to keep Scuds around considering how important he has become for us.
Zig will get more than .8, so will Lovejoy, gogo will get more than 1 mil..

I'm thinking this is more realistic
Crosby-8.7
Malkin-8.7
Gonch-5.0
Fleury-5.0
Staal-4.0
Kunitz-3.7
Orpik-3.7
Eaton-2.0
Fedotenko-2.5
Talbot-1.0
Cooke-1.2
zigomanis-1.2
gogo-1.2
letang-0.8
scuderi-2.0
curry-0.7
jeffrey-0.6
lovejoy-0.9
godard-0.7
kennedy-0.7
total-54.3

caps suppose to be 55 mil.

We do not need zigomanis for what hell want, fedotenko is going to be asking for a raise, 2010 is the year the young guys need to step up, sure caputi/tangradi/lovejoy/mormina/jeffrey/minard will struggle but it has to happen sometime, we cant keep saying next year will be their year..gogo has to step up and fill letangs shoes and letang has to fill gonchars shoes, 2010 will be his last year..

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05-10-2009, 02:55 PM
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Jacob
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You lost me at 1.2 million for Zigomanis and 900k for Lovejoy. Try again.

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05-10-2009, 03:00 PM
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RLD12
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Lovejoy has been one of wbs best performers with great numbers and is ready for the nhl, considering how much lovejoy makes right now at .875, 9 mil is a pretty good number..maybe even too low, zigomanis wasnt suppose to be 1.2 it was suppose to be .9 but i think he could get a mil..still his cap number is off

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05-10-2009, 03:05 PM
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Jacob
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Lovejoy makes 850k but it is a two-way deal and that includes a 200k bonus of some type.

It doesn't matter that he's one of WB/S best performers, WB/S is still a long way from the NHL. He'd probably jump for joy if the Penguins offered him a 600k one-way deal. Same goes for Zigomanis, who is ultimately a 4th line face-off specialist and nothing more.

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