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Sens 1st and Fisher to move up

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Old
05-10-2009, 11:23 AM
  #51
OmniSens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Senator View Post
Do people know the definition of two-way forwards?
nope they dont..

but i dont think we would go down much with Fisher's bad year.

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Old
05-10-2009, 11:28 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
I agree, I expect them to be a playoff team next year. Clouston's somebody I believe in, he really turned that team around when he took over.
Yeah, hopefully we can crack the top 6. The talent is undeniably there, in my opinion.

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Old
05-10-2009, 11:33 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
My bad (PUI), I looked up his season and you're right. He only had 2 mins of PP time per game, which makes his season very impressive actually. 61 points with only 13 PP points is difficult to achieve (usually about 8 guys a year can crack 60 without 20 PPP's). I hadn't followed Ponikarovsky's breakout and he didn't appear ppreciably different on the ice to me. However, due to his age... like Horcoff and everybody else, I'll be betting against a repeat of mid-career breakout numbers.
At least those players have had breakout offensive years. Unlike Fisher who only seems to score at the Country Music Awards.

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Old
05-10-2009, 11:57 AM
  #54
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Mike Fisher could be a good fit in the Western Conference with the Nashville Predators. The Predators are seeking a forward with some grit and scoring to help them make the playoffs. Ottawa could use some puck moving defenseman, along with sound defensive composure.

On paper, these two teams are perfect trading partners, as Nashville has a lot of defensive players and Ottawa lacks having defensive depth on their team. Ottawa has Mike Fisher, and I can see a possible trade where Ottawa moves down a couple of spots at the eleventh selection overall, while trading Fisher to Nashville for defensive help.

The Predators will have money free in the amount of $4.675 million from UFA Steve Sullivan ($3.2 million) and Radek Bonk ($1.475 million) off the cap space. By trading for Mike Fisher, the Predators get a two way center that is a playoff veteran that is dearly needed. Fisher would make $4.2 million, and still have an extra $475,000 to replace Bonk on the third line with a younger player on this line.

The only concern with this whole scenario is the fact Nashville has Jason Arnott and David Legwand tied up for another 2+ years at $4.5 million per season in the center position. With Fisher, the Predators would have $13.2 million tied up in three centers on their team.

This is manageable for the Predators, but it would be a lot to give up for three centers. In the end, the Predators could use Mike Fisher and the cost could be negated by not signing Sullivan and Bonk, while moving a defensive player from their roster to make room for other defenseman in the system and attaining other forwards on the roster.


With Predators defensive prospects of:

Jon Blum
Kevin Klein
Cody Franson

...the Predators can afford to trade Dan Hamhuis ($2 million) and maybe even Ryan Suter ($3.5 million) for the right price.

This could be a move both teams can make to help out their current situation to make the playoffs for the next two years. Nashville can use the extra playoff revenue, and with Fisher help this is a possibility to get into the playoffs next season.

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Old
05-10-2009, 12:30 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
At least those players have had breakout offensive years. Unlike Fisher who only seems to score at the Country Music Awards.

Ponikarovsky 08-09 = 82-23-38-61
Mike Fisher 06-07 = 68-22-26-48 = *82-27-31-58

Full season paces: Poni09 61, Fish07 58, Fish06 53, Poni07 52, Fish08 49, Poni08 43, Poni06 38, Fish09 34

Horcoff? ... I wouldn't be promoting anybody you had to pour 4 1/2 mins of PP time and give ES ice time with your best wingers for a 40% chance that he scores more than 50 points as an offensive success story. You might as well just throw your money away in a slot machine, you'll win occasionally there too.

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Old
05-10-2009, 02:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post

These are the teams above Ottawa. Why would any of them want Fisher and his salary? If anything Ottawa could use Fisher to move down and let someone take his contract.
Thats sort of what I think.

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05-10-2009, 02:47 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post

Barring another gigantic catastrophe and Murray sitting on his hands until it is too late, Ottawa's going to make the playoffs next year.
you should be a playoff team with one of the 5 best 1st lines in hockey and 2 very good defenders adding Karlsson and leclaire to the team, but if you dont get some secondary scoring, you'll have alot of inconsistency

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05-10-2009, 02:50 PM
  #58
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Wow ......

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Old
05-10-2009, 03:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by petersonrox28 View Post
Fisher would more likely be traded to move up from our second round pick into the late first round.
screw that. Fisher is better than most late 1sts turn out to be. I still dont know why sens fans want to trade fisher: yes, his salary is a bit high, but we paid him what he would have got as a UFA anyways (he might have even got more).

I'm allways confused when sens fans propose trading our guys with NTCs and NMCs (phillips, fisher, spezza, and heatley proposals come to mind) because our GM has publicly stated that "he doesnt think it's fair to trade guys with clauses and long-term contracts (that last part stuck in to cover spezza until his NTC kicks in) after just one bad season"

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05-10-2009, 03:17 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by heatley15 View Post
nope they dont..

but i dont think we would go down much with Fisher's bad year.
do good two way forwards make upwards of $187,500 a point in salary? at that rate Malkin should have been paid a bit under 22M last year, so I repeat do you know what over paid is? THE Isles Trent Hunter who is also a good two way forward only makes 49,000 a point and at that rate Malkin makes 5.7M

so I repeat do you know what over paid is?

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Old
05-10-2009, 03:43 PM
  #61
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If B.Schenn is gone by #7:

#7 overall and Matt Stajan

for

#9 overall and Mike Fisher



Then:

#9 overall and Pavel Kubina

for

Brent Burns (not if McGuire is GM though)


Then:

Kaberle

for

#13 overall, Mark Mancari



Then:

Leafs draft Ryan Ellis or Zach Kassian #13 overall.




Leafs get:

Burns, Fisher, Mancari, #13 overall

Leafs give-up:

Kaberle, Kubina, Stajan, #7 overall



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Old
05-10-2009, 03:59 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post

Ponikarovsky 08-09 = 82-23-38-61
Mike Fisher 06-07 = 68-22-26-48 = *82-27-31-58

Full season paces: Poni09 61, Fish07 58, Fish06 53, Poni07 52, Fish08 49, Poni08 43, Poni06 38, Fish09 34

Horcoff? ... I wouldn't be promoting anybody you had to pour 4 1/2 mins of PP time and give ES ice time with your best wingers for a 40% chance that he scores more than 50 points as an offensive success story. You might as well just throw your money away in a slot machine, you'll win occasionally there too.
Your homerism is blatantly pathetic. Yes, you are correct that Fisher has never had an offensive season that was as successful as Poni's 61 pts. Don't you realize that the exact numbers that you used are a discredit to your own point?

And Horcoff's offensive game is so vastly superior to Fisher's that you are again correct that it is an unfair comparison. Horc's breakout season was 73 pts. So far Fisher's best is 48 pts. Horc's best pro-rated season was last year at 77 pts. Fisher's best pro-rated season was 58 pts. In both situations you are talking about a 20 pt difference!

I actually like Fisher a lot, but to paint him as an offensive player that is on par with Horcoff, or even Poni, is just wrong. He is a good two way forward. He just doesn't have the skills or the numbers to back up the argument that he is/can be an offensive player.

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Old
05-11-2009, 05:17 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
Your homerism is blatantly pathetic. Yes, you are correct that Fisher has never had an offensive season that was as successful as Poni's 61 pts. Don't you realize that the exact numbers that you used are a discredit to your own point?

And Horcoff's offensive game is so vastly superior to Fisher's that you are again correct that it is an unfair comparison. Horc's breakout season was 73 pts. So far Fisher's best is 48 pts. Horc's best pro-rated season was last year at 77 pts. Fisher's best pro-rated season was 58 pts. In both situations you are talking about a 20 pt difference!

I actually like Fisher a lot, but to paint him as an offensive player that is on par with Horcoff, or even Poni, is just wrong. He is a good two way forward. He just doesn't have the skills or the numbers to back up the argument that he is/can be an offensive player.
What skills are those compared to Horcoff?
Who has Horcoff been playing with compared to Fisher? What PP unit and what players has Horcoff been playing with compared to Fisher? Might that have an affect on their stats?
What happened at the WHC when they were on the same line?

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Old
05-11-2009, 05:31 AM
  #64
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Why on earth would anyone want to take on Fisher at $4.25 million??? He's Ottawa's problem and the only way they're going to get rid of him is if the cap skyrockets or they buy him out.

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Old
05-11-2009, 08:47 AM
  #65
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Back to the OP, the Sens would have to take on a lesser player with a bad contract for any deal to work. Then, maybe the team could move up in the draft.

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Old
05-11-2009, 12:03 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
What skills are those compared to Horcoff?
Who has Horcoff been playing with compared to Fisher? What PP unit and what players has Horcoff been playing with compared to Fisher? Might that have an affect on their stats?
What happened at the WHC when they were on the same line?
You are right. Fisher being allowed to play with a skilled player like Horcoff really helped him at the WHC.

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Old
05-12-2009, 12:30 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Senator View Post
Do people know the definition of two-way forwards?
Yes and Alexei Ponikarovsky falls under that as well as being a 25 goal/ 60 point guy with only one year left on contract

Get over yourself, Ponikarovsky has much more value than Fisher and I'm a fan of Fisher

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05-12-2009, 12:32 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
For 1 season? WOW! 19 goals and 41 points per 82 games in 4 seasons before that. And that's pretty reflective of Pocahonski's skills (each season extremely close to career averages). If you're giving Pocahonsky enough ice time to put up 60 points... don't be surprised if you miss the playoffs .

How did the Sens playoff run go last year?



I doubt very much that the Sens see it that way.

Actually, I doubt very much that the Sens put a lot of stock in any stat produced under Hartsburg.
The Sens also drew 15,000 last year during a game. Hardly a model to brag about especially in a Canadian market

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05-12-2009, 12:39 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
I don't think there was one thing in that entire post that made any sense.
How exactly is a Senator fan trolling about us not making the playoffs, especially since they have won the same number of playoff games the last 2 seasons as us?



I'm happy that the fans are happy with Fisher's contract and his play. Maybe this will stop the stupid trade proposals for him. A 30-40 center making 4 million plus is a salary dump for most purposes

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05-12-2009, 12:51 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
How exactly is a Senator fan trolling about us not making the playoffs, especially since they have won the same number of playoff games the last 2 seasons as us?



I'm happy that the fans are happy with Fisher's contract and his play. Maybe this will stop the stupid trade proposals for him. A 30-40 center making 4 million plus is a salary dump for most purposes
You enjoy massaging stats, and I don't blame you as they help your argument.

Facts - Fisher in three of the last 4 years had 40 or more points. He's been a finalist for a selke trophy, he's one of the NHL's best hitting, hard working and sadly, injury proned players in the NHL. Guys like Ponikarovsky are dime a dozen players. If he can repeat the offensive performance he had this year then I think people will start to take him more seriously but if Antropov, who is a superior player to Ponikarovsky got Toronto a 2nd, what does Poni get you? Less than what Mike Fisher would bring back to Ottawa, that is for sure.

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Old
05-12-2009, 02:08 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
How exactly is a Senator fan trolling about us not making the playoffs, especially since they have won the same number of playoff games the last 2 seasons as us?

Sens playoff victories in the past 3 seasons: 13
Leafs playoff victories in the past 6 seasons: 10

Yeah, great argument.

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05-12-2009, 02:44 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
Guys like Ponikarovsky are dime a dozen players. If he can repeat the offensive performance he had this year then I think people will start to take him more seriously but if Antropov, who is a superior player to Ponikarovsky got Toronto a 2nd, what does Poni get you? Less than what Mike Fisher would bring back to Ottawa, that is for sure.
Um no, a player who is on a rather cheap contract, putting up good point totals and is very solid defensively will bring you more than a center coming of one of his worst seasons while also being on a rather expensive contract.

Mike Fisher has his value - more so to Ottawa than for others - but he has done nothing to put his value above Ponikarovsky's. Below standard performances and a contract that is far from cheap do that to you, regardless of whether you once were a Selke nominee.

The Senators are better of keeping Fisher, because they aren't going to move up with him as bait, and he certainly is more important to them now than any mid to low first round pick would be.

Comparing Ponikarovsky to Antropov is pretty useless, as Antropov was an UFA-rental at the trade deadline.

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05-12-2009, 03:06 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
How exactly is a Senator fan trolling about us not making the playoffs, especially since they have won the same number of playoff games the last 2 seasons as us?



I'm happy that the fans are happy with Fisher's contract and his play. Maybe this will stop the stupid trade proposals for him. A 30-40 center making 4 million plus is a salary dump for most purposes
And we've won more playoff series in the past 4 years than you've won playoff games

Great comparison.

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