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Not to knock Lundmark's Italy decision further...

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09-27-2004, 09:40 AM
  #1
Fletch
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Not to knock Lundmark's Italy decision further...

although I will, I still don't fully understand the decision [OK, I'm not knocking it again, yet]. There are a lot a decent prospects going to play in the AHL. I've just read that 14 World Cup participants will be playing in the AHL this season, including Jay Bouwmeester, among others, link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1888013

Do these guys have the same insurance issues? Do they make that much less than Jamie? Many were picked to participate in a tournament that Jamie would never have even been considered. Jason Spezza? Eric Staal? Zherdev? Liles? Ruutu? There's going to be some real competition down there and I'm still a bit upset Lundmark will not be a part of it.

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09-27-2004, 10:57 AM
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klingsor
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Fletch, do you know what these guys are getting paid to play in the AHL this year?

Do you know how much the Rangers offered Lundmark?

Here's a Cap player getting about $350 thousand:

Caps' Corner - Washington Capitals NHL Hockey - Nolan Yonkman
Address:http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bmarsh...n_profile.html Changed:9:48 PM on Tuesday, August 3, 2004

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09-27-2004, 11:46 AM
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NYR469
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it had nothing to do with insurance, lundmark has a two-way contract and his ahl salary would be $75,000, which would make him the lowest paid player in the AHL...those guys that agreed to play in the ahl are making alot more then that otherwise a guy like bouwmeester would have gone to europe also.

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09-27-2004, 11:53 AM
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Melrose_Jr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
it had nothing to do with insurance
Jamie said he would have played in Hartford if his insurance would cover his NHL salary should he get injured.

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09-27-2004, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
it had nothing to do with insurance, lundmark has a two-way contract and his ahl salary would be $75,000, which would make him the lowest paid player in the AHL...those guys that agreed to play in the ahl are making alot more then that otherwise a guy like bouwmeester would have gone to europe also.
I doubt that he'd be the lowest paid player at 75,000. And there is a max AHL salary in the last CBA for two-way deals so guys like Bouwmeester wouldn't be making substantially more than that.

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09-27-2004, 12:30 PM
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Thanks klingsor...

my post was part question. And Melrose, I heard the same.

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09-27-2004, 12:32 PM
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it's all water under the bridge. JL played at the AHL level and played very well there. He has nothing to prove at the AHL. JL needs playing time more than anything. He will get that in Italy. All else is irrelevant. He needs to play and he will play. The Rangers have plenty of prospects to fill out four lines so why is it imperative for JL to play in the AHL? Don't give me that stuff about gaining chemistry with the prospects. JL needs to play more than worry about gaining chemisty with players who might not even make the NHL.


European Leagues are very competitive. The way the NY Rangers management have managed JL's career up to this point has been a disgrace. He's better off playing for a team not connected to Ranger Management.

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09-27-2004, 12:43 PM
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Fletch
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Played very well?

Balej played himself out of the AHL this past playoffs with a good, consistent performance. Jamie's last stint was 5 games, no points (and I believe a -5 or -6, although most of that was from one game). His AHL perfomances, offensively speaking, had been sporadic, at best. Not something you'd want to see in a portential top six forward. His NHL performance has been sporadic too, with a season from which he desperately needs to rebound as his 24th b-day quickly approaches.

I'd almost guess that if Jamie were on the 'Pack, he would not be the team's most potent weapon, but we'll never know. And do you think the Italian league's really better than the AHL? Look at some of the names of players who'll be in the AHL this season - I think there's something in the order of 16 World Cup participants (compared to four b-level NHLers making the jump to Italy this season). There are a lot of up-and-comers in the AHL this season too. The competition level is going to be quite high in the AHL, and Jamie will miss-out.

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09-27-2004, 01:00 PM
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NYR469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Jamie said he would have played in Hartford if his insurance would cover his NHL salary should he get injured.
if it covered his nhl salary, but his nhl salary isn't being covered in italy unless he is paying for the insurance on his own, which he could have done in hartford. so it isn't about the insurance, its about the salary. if the rangers had increased his salary in hartford then he could have paid for the insurance himself with the extra $$

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09-27-2004, 01:12 PM
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Fletch
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Nyr...

I think I remember reading that it is easier/cheaper to get insurance there than here, and that played into his decision. It was about Jamie getting his full NHL salary if injured in the AHL originally. Not sure of all the details, however.

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09-27-2004, 01:20 PM
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Did some more digging...

According to the Post, personal insurance on his NHL contract was far more affordable in Europe than in the U.S. The article cited the reason for him going overseas was because the Rangers weren't going to guarantee his $1.127 million in case of injury (although it's also speculated that the Rangers may not be able to do that anyways because of the lockout).

Lots of NHL players have taken personal insurance to play overseas. Petr Sykora's paying $150K. Dvorak's paying $50K. And honestly, how much can Lundmark be making in salary in Italy? Sykora's reportedly making $500K in Russia. Can Jamie be approaching $100K in Italy? It seems to be all about the issue on insurance.

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09-27-2004, 03:16 PM
  #12
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I think we're overlooking the the impact of the knee injury on Lundmark. The more I think about it, the more I think that his knee was not even close to 100% when he came back, considering he seemed to have lost a step, he couldn't get involved in the play as much (not that I'm writing off his lackluster performances as a result of the injury, but it was likely a factor) and now the fact that a 23 going on 24-year-old suddenly places a huge weight on insurance (we young 20-somethings are supposed to have the immortal attitude--"Insurance? Meh, I'll be fine"). To me, it adds up to that knee being worse than we were lead to believe.

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09-27-2004, 03:27 PM
  #13
Fletch
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Tough to say, kodiak...

the knee may've (probably should've been) quite healthy when he came back. But it may've been Jamie that was tentative and afraid to test it. When you get serious knee injuries (and this was serious, but at least it wasn't the ACL which would've required surgery), it sometimes is in the back of your head how easily that could happen again and that you're not invincible. Some come back different that others from knee injuries.

The advice he supposedly got from Kim Harder of Overtime Inc. which looks after insurance concerns of players was that he's only 23 and he can't predict if he's going to get hurt. Further, he hasn't hit his financial goals yet so he has to be covered, in Harder's opinion. It covers the person off the ice too. Look at Stefan Charnetski as an example where insurance helped a guy.

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09-27-2004, 03:38 PM
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Fletch, it's also possible that Kodiak's theory may be correct.

In that case, it might significantly increase the cost of his insurance as there's a higher chance that he'll re-injure it and be able to collect.

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09-27-2004, 06:44 PM
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DarthSather99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
And do you think the Italian league's really better than the AHL?

Did I say it was better?...did I say it was worse? NO!. Did I say competitive, YES! I also said JL needs PLAYING TIME and if it's here or there it's irrelevant. Having him play is better than him sitting at home waiting for the season to start. Whether that's in the AHL or Italy or Hawaii I don't really care. JL getting more minutes in a weaker league(not that I'm saying that Italy is weaker) is better than JL getting less Playing Time in a stronger league(not that I'm saying the AHL is stronger). His confidence/psyche needs to be worked on more than anything. Getting away from Ranger Management(oxymoron) is the best thing for this guy.

The JL hate is rampant amoung many Ranger fans and I doubt it has to do with him going to Italy. Sather mismanaged this guy from the beginning. Yeah, he didn't go out and score every night, how many prospects do? He's still what 22-23? very young. Many people want him to be a 1st line center, YESTERDAY. Expectations are extremely high. I think a good estimate would be a second line player by the time he's in the 25-26 range.


Last edited by DarthSather99: 09-27-2004 at 06:53 PM.
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09-27-2004, 07:53 PM
  #16
Fletch
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You said that...

he has nothing to left to prove in the AHL. I mostly responded to that, and sorry for inferring that you meant that Italy's better than the AHL (thinking he had nothing to prove in the AHL and Italy's fine - understanding that you think any ice time is good at this point - whereas to me, I would've like to've seen quality ice time in a quality league - especially against guys with whom he will be competing for a job).

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