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Philadelphia - Ottawa

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Old
05-09-2009, 07:44 PM
  #76
Garbage Goal
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There are 2 reasons Flyers fans don't want to do this trade.

1) We give up Giroux, and we think there is a very strong possibility we can make the team better without trading Giroux.

2) We are not looking to the future. We want to win now. The 1st and the goalie prospect are incredible value for the future, but for right now not so much. Its basically trading Giroux for Volchenkov. Thats what it comes down to. For next year, and probably the year after that, its Giroux for Volchenkov. We don't want to build for the future we want to add the pieces necessary to be a stronger cup contender next year and the year after and this trade doesn't allow us to do that. It would be impossible to pass up if we were looking to build a team in a couple years, but we are not, we are trying to win now.

I'm not saying Giroux is more valuable than the offer, I'm saying the offer doesn't suit the Flyers need for players to make an impact now. Its like if you needed help and you had a choice, an average doctor or the best doctor in the world. The average doctor can help you know, the best doctor in the world can't see you for a year. Theres blood squirting out of your head right now, who are you gonna choose?
Hope that makes any kinda sense lol.
I wouldn't do this deal on either side for reasons already stated and I personally find anybody who sees this deal as good for either side as laughable. OTT overpays with things that they would either like to keep or get more value out of in another trade while Philly doesn't do it because the trade is more suited to a rebuilding Flyers team then a win-it-all Flyers team. The current team we have now is the latter.

I would give up Gagne or any other player besides Richards and Carter over Giroux at this moment. Giroux could have a big future in the Flyers organization and so far he seems like he could be as good as Forsberg. In my opinion our top three "untradeable" players are Richards, Carter, and Giroux.

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Old
05-09-2009, 08:44 PM
  #77
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence334 View Post
I see it as:

Volchenkov for Jones
Lee, Elliot, 1st for Giroux. Thanks but no thanks

When did Lee get in there?

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Old
05-09-2009, 09:16 PM
  #78
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No way in hell ottawa does this deal....
More realistic trade would be

Giroux
For
1st 09
Volchenkov

Thats all i would give up, and even then i might not do this trade.

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Old
05-09-2009, 10:02 PM
  #79
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This trade does not work out for teams on either side, as they do not make god trade partners in this scenario


But for all of those who say "well Giroux was pick #22", who cares at this point. Where was Datsyuk drafted??? Many consider him the 3rd best player in teh world right now.

A players draft position does not matter if he has far exceeded it.

Looking back at the '06 draft, I would take Giroux over Stall everyday of the week and Stall was the #2 pick in the draft. Stall may devlop into a very good player one day, but I would still take Giroux.

Before the '06 draft, Giroux signed with the Gatineau Olympiques and scored 39 goals and recored 64 assits for a total of 103 points in only 69 games. In 2008, Giroux scored scored 51 points in 19 playoff games in the QMJHL.

Giroux has dominated every level of hockey he has played. I bet you at least 10-15 teams are regretting that they passed on him.

I do not care how deep this draft is, teh potential for a bust is still large. Draft picks are a uncertain thing in teh NHL. AFter watching teh playoffs, and teh last 40 games, Giroux is not a uncertain thing.

The Flyers are in cap trouble. Why would we trade a young stud who is making under 1 mil per year

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Old
05-09-2009, 10:53 PM
  #80
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Massive NO from ottawa

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Old
05-10-2009, 10:11 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
1) I don't support the OP's trade proposal.

2) Ottawa has Spezza, Heatley, Alfie... and there are no 2nd liners (ES 2nd liners/PP 2nd unit players) that I would trade Volchenkov for from the perspective of the piece of **** goaltending we've received from our goalies for the past 2 seasons. So what was your point about Philly going into next season with more offensive depth and worse goaltending?... Because I could have sworn that you just told us that a 50 point player is worth more than the leading shotblocker (per game) in the NHL in front of **** goaltending.
I don't recall saying anything about going into the season with more depth and worse goaltending. I don't know where you got that from.

I don't think you understand so let me try this again. The proposal is an overpayment from Ottawa. But as for next year, and most likely the year after, its just swapping Giroux for Volchenkov which won't necessarily make us a better team. Giroux was our best player in the playoffs, and even took over the #1 center spot before the end of the season on a team with Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, and Danny Briere. We don't have anyone else on our team with his vision and playmaking ability. He is our most creative forward already, and he is only goin to get better. We can get a player comparable to Volchenkov but most likely not quite as good without having to give up Giroux. Most Flyers fans, myself included, would rather get a player maybe not quite as good as Volchenkov if it means keeping Giroux. A Flyers team with Giroux and another solid defensemen is better than a Flyers team without Giroux and with Volchenkov. At least IMO.

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Old
05-10-2009, 10:14 AM
  #82
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The city of ottawa is very excited to get a blue chip prospect.
We are not trading that chance.

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Old
05-10-2009, 10:24 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Yes, he has proven to be a very good #3-4 defenseman. Personally, I like the guy a lot. Giroux's value is higher, though, because his potential is 1st line forward and he costs much less against the cap.
Volchenkov has been on our top pairing for three years, including when we went to the Finals.

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Old
05-10-2009, 10:30 AM
  #84
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Also, I like that Giroux is a sure thing with his 50 games of experience, but Elliott, who has started 32 NHL games, is years away.

Forget two or three years down the road. Elliott's an upgrade already.

I've watched Giroux longer than probably 90% of Flyer fans. He's going to be a very, very good player. This is still a huge overpayment from Ottawa.

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Old
05-10-2009, 12:03 PM
  #85
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ahh man, theres no way this guy's a Ottawa guy...OR A SENS FAN.

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Old
05-10-2009, 12:41 PM
  #86
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
Volchenkov has been on our top pairing for three years, including when we went to the Finals.

That's good to hear, but I have to imagine he'd be on our 2nd pairing with one of Carle/Coburn/Sbisa. Timonen-Parent was our top pairing.

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Old
05-10-2009, 01:12 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
When did Lee get in there?
My Bad

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Old
05-10-2009, 01:32 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
That's good to hear, but I have to imagine he'd be on our 2nd pairing with one of Carle/Coburn/Sbisa. Timonen-Parent was our top pairing.
Does it matter who he'd be paired with as long as he'd give us a 3rd pretty good defensive option?

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Old
05-10-2009, 06:03 PM
  #89
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are there other pieces that would make this work? giroux is pretty much katherine drexel on skates right now and ottowa seems to covet thier high draft position. what would make sense for both teams

would it be a minor change like
jvr
jones
philly 1st

for
volchenkov
elliott
ottowa 1st

or if i started with phillys 1st what would it take to get volchenkov and elliott leaving the #9 out of it? thatd have to involve some players as philly is taking on salary

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Old
05-10-2009, 06:52 PM
  #90
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
are there other pieces that would make this work? giroux is pretty much katherine drexel on skates right now and ottowa seems to covet thier high draft position. what would make sense for both teams

would it be a minor change like
jvr
jones
philly 1st

for
volchenkov
elliott
ottowa 1st

or if i started with phillys 1st what would it take to get volchenkov and elliott leaving the #9 out of it? thatd have to involve some players as philly is taking on salary

I highly doubt that Ottawa would do that.

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Old
05-10-2009, 07:23 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
are there other pieces that would make this work? giroux is pretty much katherine drexel on skates right now and ottowa seems to covet thier high draft position. what would make sense for both teams

would it be a minor change like
jvr
jones
philly 1st

for
volchenkov
elliott
ottowa 1st

or if i started with phillys 1st what would it take to get volchenkov and elliott leaving the #9 out of it? thatd have to involve some players as philly is taking on salary

That's probably pretty fair value but I don't really see the reason either team does this either.

JVR = Ott 1st
Philly 1st = Volc + Elliot

Honestly, if Philly adds Volc then we have to move 1 of Carle, Coburn or Parent. It would be an absolute waste to have one of these 3 paying on the bottom pairing. We cold probably get him or anoyher guy similar to him straight up for Carle. We can sign a UFA goalie this off season who is better than Elliot. Thus, this really comes down to Philly trading JVR and our 1st for the Ott 1st. No thank you.

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Old
05-10-2009, 09:00 PM
  #92
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
That's probably pretty fair value but I don't really see the reason either team does this either.

JVR = Ott 1st
Philly 1st = Volc + Elliot

What? Maybe I am overvaluing Volchenkov but I think he is worth more than a late first. Philly would do that deal, but Ottawa wouldn't.

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Old
05-10-2009, 09:37 PM
  #93
HSF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
are there other pieces that would make this work? giroux is pretty much katherine drexel on skates right now and ottowa seems to covet thier high draft position. what would make sense for both teams

would it be a minor change like
jvr
jones
philly 1st

for
volchenkov
elliott
ottowa 1st

or if i started with phillys 1st what would it take to get volchenkov and elliott leaving the #9 out of it? thatd have to involve some players as philly is taking on salary

drop Elliott and Jones and it is fair

no offense to JVR but he is dropping year by year

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Old
05-10-2009, 10:32 PM
  #94
captainpaxil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
drop Elliott and Jones and it is fair

no offense to JVR but he is dropping year by year
hes a power forward they take time to develop. the deal falls apart with those peaces removed

i seen the value as

8th pick +elliott for jvr

jones and 22nd for volchenkov

fill in the blank here

volchenkov
colombus 2nd

for
jones
?

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