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Old
05-11-2009, 11:32 PM
  #26
Marlowe Syn
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Pardon me, but you are out of your mind. Harding can walk as an RFA with a 2nd rounder for compensation at $2.6 million per. Why on Earth would a team give up a 1st for a 4th and him and then still have to sign him? That is ludicrous.
You're assuming that Minnesota wouldn't match any offer up to $2.6M. Now if any club like Philly offers higher than that it may be a different story. But that'll cost you a first and a third. I don't think that Minnesota will just let Harding(a fmr 2nd rounder that has shown significant progress) to walk just for another 2nd round pick to start all over with. There will not be many goalies available via free agency that are going to be better than Harding. Khabibulin(assuming Chi doesn't find a way to sign him short term) and Fernandez(who I don't think is better than Hards). So even if Minny does have to re-sign Harding I still think demand greatly outweighs supply. So even if other GMs know that we are a little more desperate to move Harding in the offseason, we will still be able to deal from a position of strength. So if Philly isn't willing to deal, I'm sure that Colorado, LA, or Edmonton(who gave us a 1st for Roli a few years back) would give us a call.

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Old
05-11-2009, 11:40 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn View Post
You're assuming that Minnesota wouldn't match any offer up to $2.6M. Now if any club like Philly offers higher than that it may be a different story. But that'll cost you a first and a third. I don't think that Minnesota will just let Harding(a fmr 2nd rounder that has shown significant progress) to walk just for another 2nd round pick to start all over with. There will not be many goalies available via free agency that are going to be better than Harding. Khabibulin(assuming Chi doesn't find a way to sign him short term) and Fernandez(who I don't think is better than Hards). So even if Minny does have to re-sign Harding I still think demand greatly outweighs supply. So even if other GMs know that we are a little more desperate to move Harding in the offseason, we will still be able to deal from a position of strength. So if Philly isn't willing to deal, I'm sure that Colorado, LA, or Edmonton(who gave us a 1st for Roli a few years back) would give us a call.
the most likely scenario if a team offered him $2.6mil is that Minny would threaten to match and the work out a trade. You can't pay a backup $2.6mil in a cap world, it's just not a smart move.

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05-11-2009, 11:49 PM
  #28
Marlowe Syn
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
the most likely scenario if a team offered him $2.6mil is that Minny would threaten to match and the work out a trade. You can't pay a backup $2.6mil in a cap world, it's just not a smart move.
I know. I was just stating that a team is not going to get Harding for a 2nd. I never once thought that the Wild are going to carry $8.6M in goaltending next season.

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Old
05-12-2009, 02:24 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn View Post
I know. I was just stating that a team is not going to get Harding for a 2nd. I never once thought that the Wild are going to carry $8.6M in goaltending next season.

Soooo. . . are the Wild going to pay Harding $2.6 million, or are they going to try to trade him? Why would a team overpay if they won't match at that level, which is 2nd round compensation?

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Old
05-12-2009, 02:45 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
No, a first is borderline not enough. Harding is a former high 2nd rounder that's developed, ready, and has been highly successful at every level so far. Are you telling me that an unproven, not ready, no-guarantee-at-all late 1st rounder is worth more than a ready, proven, high 2nd rounder AND a 4th?

By the way, Minnesota goalies look good because they are good. Ask any Wild fan if Harding has had an easy time with the Wild. They'll all say that he has not. He commonly gets back-to-backs, a very high shot count, and little goal support. Last year Harding gave up 8 goals against Dallas and his coach thought he played a good game. Chew on that.


Enjoy your continued goalie problems then.


Very fair for Philly. You should be jumping all over a goalie of Harding's caliber AND a draft pick for a low first.


Not enough value if history repeats itself.


Almost any trade for quality ends up being that way. But that's a heckuva a lot of quality and quantity for Minnesota to give up.


Trade values for somewhat unproven goalies with high potential are huge. That's why they're not traded very often. They're that valuable. When they are, like Mike Smith or Vesa Toskala, the return is big.
Wow. How many times does history actually repeat itself? Any team would be stupid to deal their first for Harding. I'd rather have goalie problems than do that deal. Harding caliber as what? so far he's just been a backup. Either just Lupul for Harding or keep enjoying your offensive problems.

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Old
05-12-2009, 03:14 AM
  #31
Marlowe Syn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Soooo. . . are the Wild going to pay Harding $2.6 million, or are they going to try to trade him? Why would a team overpay if they won't match at that level, which is 2nd round compensation?
I don't know what the Wild are going to do. I'm just saying that I think they are going to try an get more than a break even on their original 2nd round investment they made when they drafted him. I would hope that our future GM isn't even looking at a draft pick as there primary recoup for him, but is looking more for a scoring winger, like Wolski. Have a scenario like Elab2 said with a offer sheet match and trade deal. I'm just saying that I think any offer sheet tendered up to the $2.6M/2nd rd comp threshold will get matched, and Harding one way or the other will be moved. Offer him $2.7M and we get a 1st and 3rd, then that is a whole new ballgame. For goalies it is going to be a seller's market, and I have no worries that there won't be a team willing to take on a $2.6M goalie with high potential off of our hands for fair return value. Numerous scenarios can happen. Ideally I want to see a player that can help us immediately in return, but not my decision.

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Old
05-12-2009, 06:30 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
No, a first is borderline not enough. Harding is a former high 2nd rounder that's developed, ready, and has been highly successful at every level so far. Are you telling me that an unproven, not ready, no-guarantee-at-all late 1st rounder is worth more than a ready, proven, high 2nd rounder AND a 4th?
Do you have a plexiglass window installed into your stomach so you can see where you are going with your head this far up your butt? By your jacked up logic, we are sending over a 7th overall pick that has developed into a 50 point forward, so you guys should send Harding (2nd rounder) and Johnsson (last guy in his draft year) back our way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Last year Harding gave up 8 goals against Dallas and his coach thought he played a good game. Chew on that.
So wait, you're trying to sell me on Harding for a 1st by telling me about a game where he let in eight goals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Very fair for Philly. You should be jumping all over a goalie of Harding's caliber AND a draft pick for a low first.
A goalie that started 11 games last year? A goalie so good you felt the need to pay Backstrom 6 million a year to start for you instead of letting the apparently-awesome-high-draft-pick-new-guy take over and trading Backstrom for some offense? A goalie you have no intention of resigning? I like Harding and I think he could be a good starter in this league, but let's be serious about his current value.

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Old
05-12-2009, 11:10 AM
  #33
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Personally, I love Harding and he is the goalie I want the Flyers to pursue. 929 Save % this past season, only 24 years old. Should be quite cheap. I'd be comfortable with Harding and some relatively cheap UFA with upside, such as Anderson, and letting the hot hand be the starter. If all else fails, it's a cheap option and should give them cap room to trade for a bonifide starter if need be.

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Old
05-12-2009, 12:10 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Personally, I love Harding and he is the goalie I want the Flyers to pursue. 929 Save % this past season, only 24 years old. Should be quite cheap. I'd be comfortable with Harding and some relatively cheap UFA with upside, such as Anderson, and letting the hot hand be the starter. If all else fails, it's a cheap option and should give them cap room to trade for a bonifide starter if need be.
I like Harding, as well, but I do not see Minnesota matching $2.6 million for him to play 15 games a season. The pressure is actually on Minnesota, because they most likely WOULD let him go for a 2nd rounder, so it is in their interest to work out a deal for a piece they need. I'd definitely do Lupul and San Jose's 3rd for him before the draft. Minnesota gets a top-6 forward and a lower pick, but they get something tangible. Harding would get a chance to win the starter's job, and Philly would get some nice cap relief. It's fair to both sides.

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05-12-2009, 01:19 PM
  #35
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With the Chicago win last night the Flyers frst is now at worst #21 with the potential to still move up to 20th or 19th with wins by one or both of Ana and Car. I highly doubt that Harding gets you a pick right around #20 in this years draft. He can probably be had for a 1st in 2010 which to me seems like a likely offer from the Flyers if Holmgren (actually, his goalie coaches/scouts) believe he's a top end #1 goalie.


If Harding is viewed as now more than an average starter like say Biron ten it wouldn't make any sense at all for the Flyers to trade away a 1st when they can sign someone equal to Harding without having to give up any significant assets.

LOL, wouldn't your fans be crying a river if a draft day deal of Bourdon and one of the 3rds we have this year for Harding was done. Bourdon has really improved his standing as a prospect since being drafted and that's really not much less than what Harding has done.

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Old
05-12-2009, 02:37 PM
  #36
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Lecavlier in Minnesota would be SICK!

Harding is alot better than anyone you could get around picks 19-21.

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Old
05-12-2009, 03:11 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I like Harding, as well, but I do not see Minnesota matching $2.6 million for him to play 15 games a season. The pressure is actually on Minnesota, because they most likely WOULD let him go for a 2nd rounder, so it is in their interest to work out a deal for a piece they need. I'd definitely do Lupul and San Jose's 3rd for him before the draft. Minnesota gets a top-6 forward and a lower pick, but they get something tangible. Harding would get a chance to win the starter's job, and Philly would get some nice cap relief. It's fair to both sides.
A lot of it depends on the other moves Minnesota wants to make in the offseason. There is a pretty decent chance we don't spend all the way to the cap anyways in which case of course we'd match 2.6 let him keep Backs fresh and then deal him for more than a late 2nd at the deadline.

Lupul and San Jose's 3rd is fair value wise but I don't want to touch Lupul, we'll see what our new GM thinks I guess.

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Old
05-12-2009, 03:14 PM
  #38
DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I like Harding, as well, but I do not see Minnesota matching $2.6 million for him to play 15 games a season. The pressure is actually on Minnesota, because they most likely WOULD let him go for a 2nd rounder, so it is in their interest to work out a deal for a piece they need. I'd definitely do Lupul and San Jose's 3rd for him before the draft. Minnesota gets a top-6 forward and a lower pick, but they get something tangible. Harding would get a chance to win the starter's job, and Philly would get some nice cap relief. It's fair to both sides.
I agree. I would actually prefer to include Lupul in the deal. I've already mentally committed to myself that the Flyers need to move Lupul because we don't really "need" him and the salary relief would be nice.

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Old
05-12-2009, 05:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
We aren't dealing our 1st for Harding
You have to give something to get something and honestly it's doubtful the Wild would trade Harding for a late 1st rounder. The Wild can get an NHL ready player for Harding who is probably the best goaltender not starting in the NHL right now.

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Old
05-12-2009, 08:06 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BP Mites View Post
You have to give something to get something and honestly it's doubtful the Wild would trade Harding for a late 1st rounder. The Wild can get an NHL ready player for Harding who is probably the best goaltender not starting in the NHL right now.
how much do you think the wild would be willing to pay harding to keep him? if 2.6 million is too much, then harding will go for a 2nd rounder or its equivalent. if the wild are willing to pay more to keep him, then sure, his value goes up. teams won't overpay when they know minnesota has to choose between paying or losing harding.

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