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Roberto Luongo

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Old
05-13-2009, 10:37 AM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You didn't disprove anything I wrote. Roberto Luongo has been the best player for either side in 3 of the 4 playoff rounds he's played in his career. If you disagree with that statement, expand upon it by giving me a list of players that outplayed him in those 3 series.

Like I said, Luongo has had 1 disappointing series and 3 all-world series.

You haven't seen similar holes in Brodeur, Lundqvist and Fleury in the past couple years? There may be fans of opposing teams that would prefer to go into the playoffs with one of the guy's you mentioned but I'm pretty sure g.m.'s around the league would disagree.

I've been extremely vocal when Luongo has struggled in a Canuck uniform. There still isn't another goalie in the league that I would feel more comfortable with heading into a playoff series. You could make a case for another guy, just not a very convincing one.
I can make a case that Lundquist stole more games in this years play-off's than Luongo did. And call me crazy for giving MAF/Lundquist credit for playing great against MUCH better teams than the Blues. You say that hockey is a team sport - but then don't consider that Luongo has a much better blueline in front of him that guys like Ward, Varlamov, MAF & Lundquist.

None of the guys listed were perfect. But they've all been played in conference finals with shaky blueline's in front of them. It's just my opinion, but I'd feel more comfortable with those guys in net than RL - just IMO. I don't think that RL is the slam dunk #1 guy in the NHL, which seemed to be your point.

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05-13-2009, 11:31 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I can make a case that Lundquist stole more games in this years play-off's than Luongo did. And call me crazy for giving MAF/Lundquist credit for playing great against MUCH better teams than the Blues. You say that hockey is a team sport - but then don't consider that Luongo has a much better blueline in front of him that guys like Ward, Varlamov, MAF & Lundquist.

None of the guys listed were perfect. But they've all been played in conference finals with shaky blueline's in front of them. It's just my opinion, but I'd feel more comfortable with those guys in net than RL - just IMO. I don't think that RL is the slam dunk #1 guy in the NHL, which seemed to be your point.
+

In these playoffs, Vancouver did not have a very good blue line. Ohlund played horrible, is pretty much gone, his limited vision and total loss of speed has killed him. Because of Ohlunds steep decline Mitchell was played in to many situations where he was out of his league, then add in that Salo went into the playoff hurt and played the Chicago series when he should have been sitting at home. Chicagos speed showed the entire world how slow Vancouvers defence has gotten.

Nope, Vancouvers problems were two fold in the Chicago series, their defence played horrid and they were out coached.

Luongo gets all the blame because he let in 7 goals in the last game, but overall he was a great goalie. He didnt win this series for them, but I doubt superman would have the way Chicago was coming on.

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05-13-2009, 11:35 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by jmwc95 View Post
I can't believe that any Flyers fan would consider sending Carter to Vancouver in any deal centered around Luongo.

maybe you might want to reconsider your player evaluations?

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05-13-2009, 11:47 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
+

In these playoffs, Vancouver did not have a very good blue line. Ohlund played horrible, is pretty much gone, his limited vision and total loss of speed has killed him. Because of Ohlunds steep decline Mitchell was played in to many situations where he was out of his league, then add in that Salo went into the playoff hurt and played the Chicago series when he should have been sitting at home. Chicagos speed showed the entire world how slow Vancouvers defence has gotten.

Nope, Vancouvers problems were two fold in the Chicago series, their defence played horrid and they were out coached.

Luongo gets all the blame because he let in 7 goals in the last game, but overall he was a great goalie. He didnt win this series for them, but I doubt superman would have the way Chicago was coming on.
My point is that from a defensive perspective I'd still take VAN's blueline over NYR's, PITT (without Gonchar), or the Caps.

That being said - in game 4 if RL doesn't give up a goal to Havlat on a very stoppable shot - the Canucks win that series IMO. Even prior to game 6, I wouldn't have said that RL played great. He definetely made some great saves, but IMO there wasn't one game that he stole from the Hawks.

I think RL is a hell of a goalie. I just don't think that he's head and shoulders better than a bunch of other guys at this point. And given his contract status, certainly not enough to justify some of the trades in this thread.

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05-13-2009, 12:53 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
My point is that from a defensive perspective I'd still take VAN's blueline over NYR's, PITT (without Gonchar), or the Caps.

That being said - in game 4 if RL doesn't give up a goal to Havlat on a very stoppable shot - the Canucks win that series IMO. Even prior to game 6, I wouldn't have said that RL played great. He definetely made some great saves, but IMO there wasn't one game that he stole from the Hawks.

I think RL is a hell of a goalie. I just don't think that he's head and shoulders better than a bunch of other guys at this point. And given his contract status, certainly not enough to justify some of the trades in this thread.
One thing that I have not heard anybody bring up, but its a fact with Roberto. He is a slow starter. He starts every season slow, after his injury he was slow coming back to form, and the layoff after St Louis really seemed to hurt him. I have seen this from Roberto to many times in the past to not give it some substance.

What is the solution? I dont know, but it is a fact of life.

Once he gets going, he is incredible, look at the numbers the last 25 games of the season and the 1st round of the playoffs. That 10 day break was a killer.

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05-13-2009, 12:58 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
One thing that I have not heard anybody bring up, but its a fact with Roberto. He is a slow starter. He starts every season slow, after his injury he was slow coming back to form, and the layoff after St Louis really seemed to hurt him. I have seen this from Roberto to many times in the past to not give it some substance.

What is the solution? I dont know, but it is a fact of life.

Once he gets going, he is incredible, look at the numbers the last 25 games of the season and the 1st round of the playoffs. That 10 day break was a killer.
This is hurting your value of Luongo then. If he can't come out of the gate strong, he will not be a consistent playoff performer. A fact of life is that sometimes you get layoffs between rounds. If that is a legitimate problem then it stands to reason that some will want to avoid that because that is a potential in the playoffs.

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05-13-2009, 01:23 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
maybe you might want to reconsider your player evaluations?
Maybe you might want to reconsider your cap and roster management? It's not just about who is the best player. It has to do with their age, cap hit, contract status, and years remaining until UFA.

A 24 year-old, 46 goal, PPG center making $5MM that is 3 years away from UFA has more value than a 30 year-old all-star goalie making $6.75MM that is 1 year away from UFA. It doesn't matter who the better player is.

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05-13-2009, 02:04 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
My point is that from a defensive perspective I'd still take VAN's blueline over NYR's, PITT (without Gonchar), or the Caps.

That being said - in game 4 if RL doesn't give up a goal to Havlat on a very stoppable shot - the Canucks win that series IMO. Even prior to game 6, I wouldn't have said that RL played great. He definetely made some great saves, but IMO there wasn't one game that he stole from the Hawks.

I think RL is a hell of a goalie. I just don't think that he's head and shoulders better than a bunch of other guys at this point. And given his contract status, certainly not enough to justify some of the trades in this thread.
havlat was about 15 feet in front of luongo, alone in the slot. he had lots of time to pick a corner. i'm not sure how much blame you can put on luongo for not stopping that one. it wasnt ben eager shooting, its the hawks leading scorer martin havlat! does people expect luongo to stop every single shots he face!?
that goal may have cost us the series, but there would be a long line of canucks taking blame for game 4 before you get to luongo, IMO.

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05-13-2009, 02:10 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by myrocketsgotcracked View Post
havlat was about 15 feet in front of luongo, alone in the slot. he had lots of time to pick a corner. i'm not sure how much blame you can put on luongo for not stopping that one. it wasnt ben eager shooting, its the hawks leading scorer martin havlat! does people expect luongo to stop every single shots he face!?
that goal may have cost us the series, but there would be a long line of canucks taking blame for game 4 before you get to luongo, IMO.
LOL, um, yeah. That play reminded me of when Philly played Buffalo a few years ago and right after we tied the game (game 5 I believe) our defense just folded and let one of their forwards skate right down the middle and take a point blank, unhindered shot on our goalie.

You can't put the blame for that goal on RL, the defense failed miserably. They parted like the Red Sea. They folded like the French army in WWII. They went down like a $2..., well you get the idea.

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05-13-2009, 02:23 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I can make a case that Lundquist stole more games in this years play-off's than Luongo did. And call me crazy for giving MAF/Lundquist credit for playing great against MUCH better teams than the Blues. You say that hockey is a team sport - but then don't consider that Luongo has a much better blueline in front of him that guys like Ward, Varlamov, MAF & Lundquist.

None of the guys listed were perfect. But they've all been played in conference finals with shaky blueline's in front of them. It's just my opinion, but I'd feel more comfortable with those guys in net than RL - just IMO. I don't think that RL is the slam dunk #1 guy in the NHL, which seemed to be your point.
You don't discount what Luongo did against the Blues because they weren't an elite team. Luongo was flawless that series and what more was he suppose to do? He couldn't have executed better and there isn't a goalie in the league that steps into his position and makes more saves than he did.

You also are giving the Canucks credit for their blueline which I agree is a good one but you fail to mention how they played at times during the Chicago series. They were uncharacteristically weak in their own end. Can you really blame a goalie for a loss in game 4 in which he gave up 1 goal after regulation to an elite offensive team?

IMO Henrik Lundqvist is on par with Luongo but Fleury, Varlamov and Ward are not. One mediocre playoff round does not erase a track record that was built over years of solid play. Small sample sizes are not how you gauge a player's ability or worth. History has shown this time and time again.

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05-13-2009, 05:22 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by myrocketsgotcracked View Post
havlat was about 15 feet in front of luongo, alone in the slot. he had lots of time to pick a corner. i'm not sure how much blame you can put on luongo for not stopping that one. it wasnt ben eager shooting, its the hawks leading scorer martin havlat! does people expect luongo to stop every single shots he face!?
that goal may have cost us the series, but there would be a long line of canucks taking blame for game 4 before you get to luongo, IMO.
Did Havlat pick a corner and hit it? No, the shot was under his arm and "through" Luongo. And regardless of who was shooting - it wasn't a "great" shot. Hell - even Shane O'Brien had a "great" shot in game 6. I'm not asking Luongo to stop every shot. But late in a P/O game when you're up 1-0, that's a save a goalie has to make.

That's my point - Luongo needed to steal a game for the Canucks, and he didn't. Elite goalies occasionally steal games for their team, which is what makes them elite IMO.

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05-13-2009, 05:42 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Did Havlat pick a corner and hit it? No, the shot was under his arm and "through" Luongo. And regardless of who was shooting - it wasn't a "great" shot. Hell - even Shane O'Brien had a "great" shot in game 6. I'm not asking Luongo to stop every shot. But late in a P/O game when you're up 1-0, that's a save a goalie has to make.
I haven't seen a replay of the shot since the game, but I recall the announcers saying that it looked like the shot was tipped by the Canucks' defenseman, I believe it was Mitchell after he tried to get back into the play after turning the puck over.
]

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05-13-2009, 05:50 PM
  #163
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Budaj and Svatos for Luongo.

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05-13-2009, 05:54 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Did Havlat pick a corner and hit it? No, the shot was under his arm and "through" Luongo. And regardless of who was shooting - it wasn't a "great" shot. Hell - even Shane O'Brien had a "great" shot in game 6. I'm not asking Luongo to stop every shot. But late in a P/O game when you're up 1-0, that's a save a goalie has to make.

That's my point - Luongo needed to steal a game for the Canucks, and he didn't. Elite goalies occasionally steal games for their team, which is what makes them elite IMO.
He kept the Hawks to one goal in regulation and you're complaining he didn't steal the game. IF he had let the goal in in the first period then stoned them the rest of the game to get to OT, would you be that pissed? Probably not, and it's not fair to judge a goalie on the basis of one goal. Its probably not fair to judge them on the basis of one game, but if you do, then Luongo still played a pretty good one that game.

As for the goal that got it to overtime, Havlat was moving left to right through the slot (with a healthy amount of time and space from what I remember). When you move your feet and body to stay with a shooter your arms tend to move, its just kinetics, tough to avoid it. It is also worth mentioning Havlat has a nice release and decently hard shot, which denied Luongo enough time to react (particularly when Havlat gets to take it from <15 feet out).

Would it have been good if Luongo kept his elbow tucked?

Would it have been nice for his team to deny Havlat the puck in the slot moving left-to-right (making it harder to stay in the shot lane and ready to react to the shot as a goalie)?

Would it have been nice for his team to give him some goal support so that he doesn't need to shut out the BlackHawks to win?

The answer to all of those questions is yes, but nobody is perfect, if they were, every game would end in a tie. Somebody has to win and the Hawks were just the better team. There is nothing wrong with losing sometimes, as bad as it sounds to say. It is not at all fair to throw the guy under the bus for that goal.

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05-13-2009, 09:21 PM
  #165
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He kept the Hawks to one goal in regulation and you're complaining he didn't steal the game. IF he had let the goal in in the first period then stoned them the rest of the game to get to OT, would you be that pissed? Probably not, and it's not fair to judge a goalie on the basis of one goal. Its probably not fair to judge them on the basis of one game, but if you do, then Luongo still played a pretty good one that game.

As for the goal that got it to overtime, Havlat was moving left to right through the slot (with a healthy amount of time and space from what I remember). When you move your feet and body to stay with a shooter your arms tend to move, its just kinetics, tough to avoid it. It is also worth mentioning Havlat has a nice release and decently hard shot, which denied Luongo enough time to react (particularly when Havlat gets to take it from <15 feet out).

Would it have been good if Luongo kept his elbow tucked?

Would it have been nice for his team to deny Havlat the puck in the slot moving left-to-right (making it harder to stay in the shot lane and ready to react to the shot as a goalie)?

Would it have been nice for his team to give him some goal support so that he doesn't need to shut out the BlackHawks to win?

The answer to all of those questions is yes, but nobody is perfect, if they were, every game would end in a tie. Somebody has to win and the Hawks were just the better team. There is nothing wrong with losing sometimes, as bad as it sounds to say. It is not at all fair to throw the guy under the bus for that goal.
I realize no one is perfect, and if the Canucks had played better team defense - Havlat wouldn't have even gotten the shot. My point is that truly elite goalies sometime "steal" a game in the P/O's, and when the Canucks desperately needed RL to do that against the Hawks - he didn't deliver.

I'm not calling RL a bad goalie - because he's not - he's among the best in the game. I just don't think that with only having one year left on his contract a bunch of Canucks fans are significantly overestimating his trade value in this thread - that's all.

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05-13-2009, 09:45 PM
  #166
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all of you guys got it wrong... im am the canucks #1 fan so here is what us canucks fans expect for bobbi lou. Luongo took some heat for the last game where he let 7 goals but. we need to change up our defencive crew.

Car:
Eric Staal
Cam Ward

Van:
Bobbi lou
Steve Bernier

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05-13-2009, 09:54 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL KING View Post
Car:
Eric Staal
Cam Ward

Van:
Bobbi lou
Steve Bernier
Never happen.

Eric Staal has yet to miss a game in his four years in the NHL and has scored between 100 and 70 points every year. Steve Bernier has played 62, 59, 17 and 81 games in his career, and maxed out this year at 32 points.

Cam Ward is 24, has already won a cup, and is proving again this year that he is a big game goalie. Roberto Luongo is 30.


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05-13-2009, 09:58 PM
  #168
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Never happen.
it would be sick tho! for both teams

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05-13-2009, 10:09 PM
  #169
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it would be sick tho! for both teams
Is that possible, for a trade to be that amazing for both teams?

More likely: The Canucks think it is a sick trade and it makes the Hurricanes sick.

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05-13-2009, 10:09 PM
  #170
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it would be sick tho! for both teams
Yea, it'd be a different kind of sick for the Canes.

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05-13-2009, 11:42 PM
  #171
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Just throwing this out there, obviously the best course of action would be to sign luongo long term but if he refuses a contract extension in the summer, do you think this trade would have any potential?

Vancouver gives:
Roberto Luongo

Philly gives:
Jeff Carter
JVR conditional on luongo signing long term

Vancouver definately has an amazing goalie prospect in the system and as much as I'd have to see luongo go, I'd hate even more to see him go and get nothing in return.

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05-13-2009, 11:59 PM
  #172
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Just throwing this out there, obviously the best course of action would be to sign luongo long term but if he refuses a contract extension in the summer, do you think this trade would have any potential?

Vancouver gives:
Roberto Luongo

Philly gives:
Jeff Carter
JVR conditional on luongo signing long term

Vancouver definately has an amazing goalie prospect in the system and as much as I'd have to see luongo go, I'd hate even more to see him go and get nothing in return.
As been in here earlier the Flyers would probably have to add Randy Jones seen they can't really add salary (or make a deal before this) not sure how Ottawa would feel about this but I think maybe a 3 way deal could be done (or 2 seperate deals)

To Philly - Roberto Luongo and Christoph Schubert (cheap 6/7 D)

To Van - Jeff Carter, future considerations (JVR if Luongo re-signs), and Jason Smith.

To Ottawa - Randy Jones and Van's 3rd in 09.

Would all 3 being willing to do it?

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05-14-2009, 12:50 AM
  #173
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Say the Canucks shopped Luongo around, how many teams would have legit interest? Philly for one you'd have to assume would be interested, as would Montreal. Edmonton likely has interest, but do the Canucks want to move him to a close rival and more importantly, does Roberto want to go to Edmonton? Same goes for Colorado. St.Louis might have some interest as well. Other than that, I really don't see many teams that would be interested and Luongo would be willing to go to.

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05-14-2009, 12:50 AM
  #174
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Just letting you know guys know.

Apparently a deal has been worked out with Luongo but its not announced yet.
Just letting ya guys know.

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05-14-2009, 12:51 AM
  #175
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As been in here earlier the Flyers would probably have to add Randy Jones seen they can't really add salary (or make a deal before this) not sure how Ottawa would feel about this but I think maybe a 3 way deal could be done (or 2 seperate deals)

To Philly - Roberto Luongo and Christoph Schubert (cheap 6/7 D)

To Van - Jeff Carter, future considerations (JVR if Luongo re-signs), and Jason Smith.

To Ottawa - Randy Jones and Van's 3rd in 09.

Would all 3 being willing to do it?
Canucks would have ZERO interest in Jason Smith. Their defense needs to get quicker and more mobile.

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