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05-14-2009, 04:22 PM
  #26
Chimaera
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When I say that the goal was to win a series, and then who knows, I didn't mean that they didn't plan on trying to win a Cup.

But from a perspective of people who DIDN'T play on the team (Ted mainly) the goal was to improve the team and get further.

This team is still a work in progress.




As far as the cost, it was for Pronger. Yes, there were alternatives, but most would not have been a significant acquisition. Guerin would have been nice, but it depended
on moving Nylander which was an unlikely event. I still don't think that Guerin was the solution (he isn't a great playoff guy and has next to nothing left in the tank).

I didn't want Schneider.

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05-14-2009, 04:23 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
The cost was the cost to dump salary. We couldn't have taken Guerin for a pick even if we wanted to, unless a deal for Nylander went through (which it obviously didn't).

Would you have traded Semin just to pick up Guerin? How about Poti + Morrisonn?

The only guy you could realistically expect to drop for Guerin without seeing a huge drop in on-ice effectiveness, maybe, is Fedorov, but the whole reason we paid him so much is for his locker room presence, especially in the playoffs. That would have been a non-starter.
So because McPhee painted himself into a corner, we should pat the guy on the back and say "good job"?!?!

There's a reason why some franchises do well year after year. It's called expecting excellence. Caps fans seem to have been beaten down so much over the years that it's now acceptable and even praised for doing an average job over a decade.

I'm not suggesting that McPhee is going to get fired, but this year is the make or break summer IMO. He either shows that he can make something happen with this roster, or he should be gone.

Final 4 or bust next year.

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05-14-2009, 04:25 PM
  #28
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But it is because of the way GMGM did things that the Caps were in salary cap trouble.

Look, I think we ought to keep him. He's smart and talented. But he did struggle this year. The salary cap is like quicksand. If Green dominated like Chara does the quicksand would be easier to accept. Not to mention Nylander (and now Theodore).

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05-14-2009, 04:26 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post

As far as the cost, it was for Pronger. Yes, there were alternatives, but most would not have been a significant acquisition. Guerin would have been nice, but it depended
on moving Nylander which was an unlikely event. I still don't think that Guerin was the solution (he isn't a great playoff guy and has next to nothing left in the tank).

I didn't want Schneider.
I didn't want Schneider either, but when I look at Tyler Sloan vs. Schneider, only a fool chooses Sloan.

There were upgrades available and because of poor cap management we were stuck.

Anyway, this is stuff you already know.

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05-14-2009, 04:26 PM
  #30
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Average job?

you must smoke crack.

If McPhee had kept the team together and basically stayed at a 7-9 level spot and drug it out, he would have been average.


He took the team, gutted it, tore it down to NOTHING and built them back up. There are very few (a handful at that) of GMs in the league who can claim to have done a similar job. the caps have riches that 95% of the teams in the league can't hold a candle to. The prospects stocked in the farm systems still have diamonds who other teams can't sniff.

You can say what you want about GMGM, but the second he is fired in DC, he could pretty much pick a decent-prime job in the NHL without much effort. He has earned that. Picking Green out of the end of the Round alone is a coup that would get him in the interview door.

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05-14-2009, 04:27 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
I didn't want Schneider either, but when I look at Tyler Sloan vs. Schneider, only a fool chooses Sloan.

There were upgrades available and because of poor cap management we were stuck.

Anyway, this is stuff you already know.
What would have Schneider brought that we could have used?


He's a tired, worn out PP specialist at this point. Was our PP that bad at the deadline to where we needed him?

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05-14-2009, 04:30 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Which should irk everyone.

I've never heard of a great team with that plodding mentality.

You set a bar low and you do just enough to reach it.

Many slammed McPhee's failure to add D and leadership at the deadline, and that's exactly what cost them in the end. But none of us know what his options were.

If he can get rid of Nyles and bring in a few quality players, I'll be very positive.

If he believes (or tries to sell) Chris Clark and Brian Pothier as "replacements already on the roster", then I'll begin to jump ship on the guy.
Exactly...the goal is to win the CUP.....EVERY YEAR. My expectations were to win a round and who knows what could happen after that, but the goal is to win every year.

I honestly think many Caps fans are so beaten that they don't expect to win. It's like we're set up to accept the "sorry loser, you tried" award and people are going to be happy. I don't get it.

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05-14-2009, 04:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
What would have Schneider brought that we could have used?


He's a tired, worn out PP specialist at this point. Was our PP that bad at the deadline to where we needed him?
A PP guy who is still a hell of a puck mover. He would have probably been a top pairing guy for us!

Come on....you must not have watched him much this year. He still plays well enough to be in our top pair. He's an upgrade over everyone except Green.

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05-14-2009, 04:34 PM
  #34
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He got them 60 minutes from the ECF.

60 minutes. You can say what you want about not winning the game, the Pens looking better or whatever, but when it came down to it, he wasn't that far off.

The team is still young, there's a ton of good players on the roster and coming up who are getting better. Does the composition need to be altered a bit? Yeah, probably. but, he's not that far away from being able to taste that success.

One team can win the Cup each year, so I'm not sure how you are doing anything other than setting yourself up for being disappointed by feeling that every year he has to win the cup to not be a failure. If we're getting into another year or two down the road and progress is not being made, then the failure label can be applied. However, at this point, McPhee, like it or not, is a rousing success.

Does he go without question or bad move? No. He has made mistakes. But the team right now is a team that can compete for the Cup at least for the next 2-3 years without significant changes. Probably longer.

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05-14-2009, 04:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
A PP guy who is still a hell of a puck mover. He would have probably been a top pairing guy for us!

Come on....you must not have watched him much this year. He still plays well enough to be in our top pair. He's an upgrade over everyone except Green.
I watched him basically be a minus player and provide little for a Montreal team that badly needed his help.

He's done. He adds leadership, and is a marginal player in his own end (he hasn't been good defensively for a long while) who would not have made this team good enough to beat Pittsburgh.

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05-14-2009, 04:37 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
Average job?

you must smoke crack.

If McPhee had kept the team together and basically stayed at a 7-9 level spot and drug it out, he would have been average.


He took the team, gutted it, tore it down to NOTHING and built them back up. There are very few (a handful at that) of GMs in the league who can claim to have done a similar job. the caps have riches that 95% of the teams in the league can't hold a candle to. The prospects stocked in the farm systems still have diamonds who other teams can't sniff.

You can say what you want about GMGM, but the second he is fired in DC, he could pretty much pick a decent-prime job in the NHL without much effort. He has earned that. Picking Green out of the end of the Round alone is a coup that would get him in the interview door.
Answer the question...where would this team be without the LUCK of landing Ovechkin. Is this a playoff team without him? McPhee is trending upwards the last 4 years in the draft. What about the previous 6 years?!!?

How's that Fehr over Getzlaf pick working out?

Broken down year by year in analysis, there are so many blunders it's pretty obvious that McPhee is average at best but because of Ovechkin landing in his lap he's been given a lifeline. Without landing Ovechkin, McPhee was fired 4 years ago.

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05-14-2009, 04:38 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I watched him basically be a minus player and provide little for a Montreal team that badly needed his help.

He's done. He adds leadership, and is a marginal player in his own end (he hasn't been good defensively for a long while) who would not have made this team good enough to beat Pittsburgh.
Yes he's aging...he's still better overall than everyone of our defenders except Green.

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05-14-2009, 04:40 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
Average job?

you must smoke crack.

If McPhee had kept the team together and basically stayed at a 7-9 level spot and drug it out, he would have been average.


He took the team, gutted it, tore it down to NOTHING and built them back up. There are very few (a handful at that) of GMs in the league who can claim to have done a similar job. the caps have riches that 95% of the teams in the league can't hold a candle to. The prospects stocked in the farm systems still have diamonds who other teams can't sniff.

You can say what you want about GMGM, but the second he is fired in DC, he could pretty much pick a decent-prime job in the NHL without much effort. He has earned that. Picking Green out of the end of the Round alone is a coup that would get him in the interview door.
yup.

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05-14-2009, 04:46 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
So because McPhee painted himself into a corner, we should pat the guy on the back and say "good job"?!?!

There's a reason why some franchises do well year after year. It's called expecting excellence. Caps fans seem to have been beaten down so much over the years that it's now acceptable and even praised for doing an average job over a decade.

I'm not suggesting that McPhee is going to get fired, but this year is the make or break summer IMO. He either shows that he can make something happen with this roster, or he should be gone.

Final 4 or bust next year.
No, but harp on him for the right issue instead of setting straw men. Don't complain about Pothier and Clark being the deadline additions because he didn't want to make any additions and was satisfied with the team as it was, complain about poor cap management or poor planning, or, better yet, specific signings.

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05-14-2009, 04:50 PM
  #40
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its not just green. its the eminger for carlson thing. eminger was so loved that he got bounced all over the league. carlson is so good that many hear would rather hve him than pronger.

I'm with Chim on this. The Caps were probably a healthy Green from advancing. That happens. Look at Varlamov. That is McPhee.

I wanted a deal for Pronger. Pronger was apparantly not for sale and the second best choice out there was Derek Morris who is a loser and would have been no help.
The player they needed was not on the market this trade deadline.

This team is moving forward. It has become a nationally followed team. In Canada even.

All this demand for final four or bust makes me laugh to. Its as if that would not be the logical next step in progression from where they were to where they are to where they should be next.


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05-14-2009, 04:57 PM
  #41
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fact 1:

no deadline acquistion would have made this team a cup contender

fact 2:


no deadline player was worth their value


the only thing i can fault GMGM for is not having a contingency plan for Kolzig. i guess he figured that he go til he was 40 and then future GMGM would have to deal with that problem.

also, he's doing an okay job with the D corps, but his plan is a little different than what i would like.

he's trying to build a defense from within, with roll players filling the holes.

they need to hit UFA's and shore it up.

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05-14-2009, 05:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Here's one question everyone should be asking themselves with regards to McPhee's performance.

Without the luck of landing the #1 pick and the no brainer selection of Ovechkin, where would this team be? I contend that this team wouldn't even be a playoff team right now without Ovechkin. To me, that doesn't say a lot for McPhee's results.
Well the team is built around Ovechkin, so I would say that it would be an entirely different team if they didn't get Ovechkin. There is no logical way to convince me that if the Caps landed Barker instead of Ovechkin that the team would look exactly the same it does now.

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05-14-2009, 05:05 PM
  #43
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I don't buy the "our deadline pickups are guys who were already on our team" line of bulls***.

To expect two guys coming off of long term injury (one career threatening and one looking like a shell of his former self) to have a large impact was a folley. Luckily Pothier was pretty solid, but it was a huge gamble.

Honestly, it was lip service from a GM who tied his own hands to the extent that he couldn't make a move even if he wanted to.

I said it in October that this team wasn't built to go deep in the playoffs. Anyways, long offseason to see what he does. I think he's at least earned another year thanks to Ovechkin.

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05-14-2009, 05:06 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleCAPS View Post
fact 1:

no deadline acquistion would have made this team a cup contender

fact 2:


no deadline player was worth their value


the only thing i can fault GMGM for is not having a contingency plan for Kolzig. i guess he figured that he go til he was 40 and then future GMGM would have to deal with that problem.

also, he's doing an okay job with the D corps, but his plan is a little different than what i would like.

he's trying to build a defense from within, with roll players filling the holes.

they need to hit UFA's and shore it up.
Not true, and certainly unprovable as a FACT.

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05-14-2009, 05:11 PM
  #45
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I think GMGM has done a fairly good job, far from perfect, but since there are so many terrible GMs around the league, I think on a relative scale, he's probably good to very good.

Draft-wise, he made quite a few great picks -- Semin, Green, Varlamov, Carlson, which I think at least make up for stuff that was missed.

Team-building, he's done pretty well. My biggest beef with him is that he overpays players.. every contract he gives out, you get the feeling that a great GM would get it done for 20% less.

Having said, he's only made one clear blunder in Nylander. But that's sort of mitigated by the fact that his contract can be bought out just when the team begins to reach true contender status. He can't afford another error like this, though, it would be a disaster.

About this year's deadline, nobody knows how hard it is to ship out of Nylander. If it really couldn't be done, than GMGM's inactivity is just part of the Nylandergate.

It took a very good Pens team to unmask the extent of problems on D. So both GMGM and BB enter a critical season of fixing the Caps' play. So besides the draft, he'll be judged on:

1. Ability to ship out Nylander/Clark/Theodore
2. Guts/vision to ship out Clark/Theodore
3. Ability to upgrade D
4. Sign Backstrom/Semin for cheap(er)
5. Try to solve 2nd line center situation, or at least not screw it up
6. Bring in speed/grit, or at least retain cap space to do so at the deadline

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05-14-2009, 05:11 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
I don't buy the "our deadline pickups are guys who were already on our team" line of bulls***.

To expect two guys coming off of long term injury (one career threatening and one looking like a shell of his former self) to have a large impact was a folley. Luckily Pothier was pretty solid, but it was a huge gamble.

Honestly, it was lip service from a GM who tied his own hands to the extent that he couldn't make a move even if he wanted to.

I said it in October that this team wasn't built to go deep in the playoffs. Anyways, long offseason to see what he does. I think he's at least earned another year thanks to Ovechkin.
What is there to buy? Saying they're our deadline additions was never about them being the best additions we could make, it was always about them being the only additions we could make. That was never in question once it was clear Nylander wasn't going anywhere.

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05-14-2009, 05:31 PM
  #47
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My only problem with GMGM is that he seems to overspend to extend players. He overspent for Fedorov, Laich, Clymer, arguably Erskine and yes, he overspent for St. Ovechkin. Not that those players haven't lived up to their respective contracts, I just think they could have been had for cheaper. If he gets roped into overspending to keep Backstrom and Semin, he could cripple the team's future.

That's my only concern. The team's drafting record is trending upward, he has only made one bad FA signing recently, and his deadline moves in 07-08 were unarguably brilliant. Really, what more do you want from a GM?

Oh, and the team is suddenly CRUSHING the business side of things. I don't know how involved GMGM is with things like ticket sales and advertising, but the organization is doing everything right at the moment. They are the talk of the town.

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05-14-2009, 05:58 PM
  #48
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My only problem with GMGM is that he seems to overspend to extend players. He overspent for Fedorov, Laich, Clymer, arguably Erskine and yes, he overspent for St. Ovechkin. Not that those players haven't lived up to their respective contracts, I just think they could have been had for cheaper. If he gets roped into overspending to keep Backstrom and Semin, he could cripple the team's future.

That's my only concern. The team's drafting record is trending upward, he has only made one bad FA signing recently, and his deadline moves in 07-08 were unarguably brilliant. Really, what more do you want from a GM?

Oh, and the team is suddenly CRUSHING the business side of things. I don't know how involved GMGM is with things like ticket sales and advertising, but the organization is doing everything right at the moment. They are the talk of the town.
Ovechkin....nuff said.

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05-14-2009, 06:04 PM
  #49
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GMGM Deserves more time

He's done a good job rebuilding after the lockout. His drafts have been more hits than misses. And while I want him to dump Nyls now, I liked the signing when he made it.

What puts this team over the top in the playoffs is more grit up front, and more defensive minded forwards. Unfortunately we have a lot of skilled/finesse forwards, but we're real light here, and I can't think of but a handful of these guys we have drafted. Della Rovere comes to mind. Osala too. But where are the others? We have a lot of skill guys in Hershey, but GMGM has not done a lot to draft these "get in your face an outwork the other team" guys. And the guys he signs from other teams seem to be the same types of players as well.

Watching these two series it was painfully obvious that the Caps forwards have a physical aversion to backchecking. We need some toughness out there. Draft or sign it GMGM.

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05-14-2009, 06:06 PM
  #50
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Do we know for fact the teams true goal this year? Signing Theo and Feds and going cap strapped tell me we were making a run for the cup. And why not? I hope George and Bruce have higher aspirations than just making progress.

So if we did make the cup our goal, being cash strapped caught up with us. We had no cap room to rest guys at the end of the year, to groom potential callups during the playoffs. Clark our big deadline pickup. Thats because George could not move Nylander. The Nylander story cant be denied, his name typed on this site more than Ovi this year. We should have given him a sticky over Gus.

Since GMGM was unable to move him, and not making any moves at the deadline, and assuming the goal was the cup, GMGM let me down.


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