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Luongo to Flyers?

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:00 PM
  #26
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
I love that two of players going back have put the fyers in cap hell, Briere and Lupul. The fklyers are going to try to dump Lupul for anything--his new cotract is a joke for such a one demantianial player

flyes want Luongo--start the offer around Richards or Carter
I guarantee the Canucks won't get a player of their caliber if they deal Luongo.

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05-15-2009, 03:01 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Toronto has paid/had goalies in the past. Potvin, Fuhr, Cujo, Belfour...

When was the last time Philly had a true #1? Bernie Parent? Ron Hextall sure didn't count...lol.
Ron Hextall sure didn't count? Being a Conn Smyth winner does not equate to being a "true #1"?

I don't see the point of arguing which team has had better goalies over the course of time when we could all easily meet up somewhere and just whip our dicks out an actually compare.

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05-15-2009, 03:03 PM
  #28
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Wait, I just read the word "demantational". My head hurts.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:03 PM
  #29
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threads like this are ridiculous... it's always a team's best players for salary dumps or players that the other team just doesn't need.

If you want to look at this realistically, there are limitations to what type of deal Luongo would fetch.

First of all, Luongo only gets dealt if he wants out. Gillis has already said that they will look to extend him after July 1st, and has no intentions at all of moving him otherwise. So, if Luongo gets dealt, it'll happen because he wants out.

If this happens, there will only be a limited number of teams with who a trade can work. Luongo has a NTC. And he isn't going to want out of Vancouver to go to a rebuilding team like Toronto.

Secondly, if Luongo gets moved, the Canucks are rebuilding. You don't add contracts like Briere and Lupul in such situations... if Philly is interested, you're looking at assets like JVR, Giroux, Coburn, Sbisa, picks, etc... if reality is that Luongo is not happy in Vancouver, the Canucks will be forced into a rebuilding mode, and any deal that happens will end up being the best package of youth and building blocks for the future they can get from the very limited number of teams that Luongo will waive his NTC to go to... this is of course a disadvantage to the Canucks - they aren't going to generate the return for him that they could without that NTC. So how many competitive teams (those that Luongo will waive his NTC to go to) actually have a need for a top goalie? 4 or 5?

The offseason will go a long way to determining what happens with Luongo. If the Sedins walk, chances are that you aren't going to replace 2 top line players in FA. The team also doesn't really have a great deal of trade assets to recover from that loss either. If the Sedins walk, there's a good chance, IMO, that Luongo won't re-sign that extension before the season starts, and that's where trading him and going into rebuilding mode may happen (as Luongo has already indicated he wasn't comfortable going into a season with a contract hanging over his head).

If all that happens, than a Luongo deal to the Flyers wouldn't surprise me... but they'd have to be willing to drop those contracts to other teams to make room for Luongo. If this were to happen, the Canucks would very clearly be in rebuilding mode.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Negative value and negative value for the Canucks are two different things.

And I didn't say it was a package of Briere, Lupul, and Carle for Luongo. That'd be dumb for both sides. If a Flyers' forward gets moved for relatively ANYONE in the NHL it will likely be Briere OR Lupul. Not both. Luongo isn't worth the offense we'd lose by giving up both of them.

And yes I know I was right about it.
There isn't a fan on this board that will back up what you're saying, Flyer or otherwise.

Briere has one of the 5 worst contracts in the game. Lupul's movable but the return would be minor.

If the Flyers could move Briere, Lupul and Carle for Luongo they would do so without hesitation. Shedding $6.5mil in salary and getting the best player in the deal by far? Yeah, I think that's a no-brainer.

You couldn't be further off the mark. Is that your article perhaps?

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05-15-2009, 03:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
threads like this are ridiculous... it's always a team's best players for salary dumps or players that the other team just doesn't need.

If you want to look at this realistically, there are limitations to what type of deal Luongo would fetch.

First of all, Luongo only gets dealt if he wants out. Gillis has already said that they will look to extend him after July 1st, and has no intentions at all of moving him otherwise. So, if Luongo gets dealt, it'll happen because he wants out.

If this happens, there will only be a limited number of teams with who a trade can work. Luongo has a NTC. And he isn't going to want out of Vancouver to go to a rebuilding team like Toronto.

Secondly, if Luongo gets moved, the Canucks are rebuilding. You don't add contracts like Briere and Lupul in such situations... if Philly is interested, you're looking at assets like JVR, Giroux, Coburn, Sbisa, picks, etc... if reality is that Luongo is not happy in Vancouver, the Canucks will be forced into a rebuilding mode, and any deal that happens will end up being the best package of youth and building blocks for the future they can get from the very limited number of teams that Luongo will waive his NTC to go to... this is of course a disadvantage to the Canucks - they aren't going to generate the return for him that they could without that NTC. So how many competitive teams (those that Luongo will waive his NTC to go to) actually have a need for a top goalie? 4 or 5?

The offseason will go a long way to determining what happens with Luongo. If the Sedins walk, chances are that you aren't going to replace 2 top line players in FA. The team also doesn't really have a great deal of trade assets to recover from that loss either. If the Sedins walk, there's a good chance, IMO, that Luongo won't re-sign that extension before the season starts, and that's where trading him and going into rebuilding mode may happen (as Luongo has already indicated he wasn't comfortable going into a season with a contract hanging over his head).

If all that happens, than a Luongo deal to the Flyers wouldn't surprise me... but they'd have to be willing to drop those contracts to other teams to make room for Luongo. If this were to happen, the Canucks would very clearly be in rebuilding mode.
So basically it's not happening because what we'd have to give up to help the Canucks isn't worth losing. In fact it would negate the purpose of getting Luongo if we have to give up Carter, Giroux, and Coburn who are going to be star players for the Flyers for a long time.

Funny that I already explained it.

No deal from Philadelphia.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:23 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
There isn't a fan on this board that will back up what you're saying, Flyer or otherwise.

Briere has one of the 5 worst contracts in the game. Lupul's movable but the return would be minor.

If the Flyers could move Briere, Lupul and Carle for Luongo they would do so without hesitation. Shedding $6.5mil in salary and getting the best player in the deal by far? Yeah, I think that's a no-brainer.

You couldn't be further off the mark. Is that your article perhaps?
No it's not my article. Briere's contract is NOT one of the 5 worst in the NHL. It's already been proven that there's worse.

And you'd find out that a lot of Flyers fans have actually backed what I'm saying.

You just don't know what you're talking about, or anything about the Flyers, possibly even the NHL for that matter.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:30 PM
  #33
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Not a fan of either team, but a fair trade for Loungo IMO would be

one of Colburn/Sbisa
Philly's first this year
one of Giroux/Vanremsdyk
second round pick/Jones/prospect

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
No it's not my article. Briere's contract is NOT one of the 5 worst in the NHL. It's already been proven that there's worse.

And you'd find out that a lot of Flyers fans have actually backed what I'm saying.

You just don't know what you're talking about, or anything about the Flyers, possibly even the NHL for that matter.
Proven? How exactly did that happen. Your opinion is proof of absolutely nothing.

G.M.'s are extremely reluctant to take on any long term salary. Briere has one of the longest contracts in the league, an injury history and he's going to make $6.5mil as a 34,35,36 and 37 year old. I can guarantee with certainty you can't name 10 worse contracts in the NHL. The problem isn't next year, it's the year after and beyond.

Couple all that with a NTC and you'll be seeing Briere in a Flyer uniform for a very long time. It's a good thing you like the contract.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:34 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
Not a fan of either team, but a fair trade for Loungo IMO would be

one of Colburn/Sbisa
Philly's first this year
one of Giroux/Vanremsdyk
second round pick/Jones/prospect
Giroux, Coburn, 1st, 2nd for Luongo? Overpayment from Philly.

If Vancouver was re-building I'd take Giroux, 1st and a salary dump to make it work financially.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:36 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Proven? How exactly did that happen. Your opinion is proof of absolutely nothing.

G.M.'s are extremely reluctant to take on any long term salary. Briere has one of the longest contracts in the league, an injury history and he's going to make $6.5mil as a 34,35,36 and 37 year old. I can guarantee with certainty you can't name 10 worse contracts in the NHL. The problem isn't next year, it's the year after and beyond.

Couple all that with a NTC and you'll be seeing Briere in a Flyer uniform for a very long time. It's a good thing you like the contract.
This.

And Briere is definitely an upgrade on Koivu and Plekanec, he's not what the Habs are really looking for. Briere already said several times he doesn't want his family to be at the center of the media circus.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:36 PM
  #37
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Hartnell, Parent and JVR...that's where it should start.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Proven? How exactly did that happen. Your opinion is proof of absolutely nothing.

G.M.'s are extremely reluctant to take on any long term salary. Briere has one of the longest contracts in the league, an injury history and he's going to make $6.5mil as a 34,35,36 and 37 year old. I can guarantee with certainty you can't name 10 worse contracts in the NHL. The problem isn't next year, it's the year after and beyond.

Couple all that with a NTC and you'll be seeing Briere in a Flyer uniform for a very long time. It's a good thing you like the contract.
There's a whole thread devoted to it genius. And why did it change from 5 to 10? Unsure of your first claim?

My god.

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:49 PM
  #39
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I feel like we just had the "Luongo to Flyers" discussion. Oh, that's right, we did.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=641718

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05-15-2009, 03:51 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I guarantee the Canucks won't get a player of their caliber if they deal Luongo.

So you are saying that Luongo will only get scrubs and over paid third line demented players for him?

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:52 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
threads like this are ridiculous... it's always a team's best players for salary dumps or players that the other team just doesn't need.

If you want to look at this realistically, there are limitations to what type of deal Luongo would fetch.

First of all, Luongo only gets dealt if he wants out. Gillis has already said that they will look to extend him after July 1st, and has no intentions at all of moving him otherwise. So, if Luongo gets dealt, it'll happen because he wants out.

If this happens, there will only be a limited number of teams with who a trade can work. Luongo has a NTC. And he isn't going to want out of Vancouver to go to a rebuilding team like Toronto.

Secondly, if Luongo gets moved, the Canucks are rebuilding. You don't add contracts like Briere and Lupul in such situations... if Philly is interested, you're looking at assets like JVR, Giroux, Coburn, Sbisa, picks, etc... if reality is that Luongo is not happy in Vancouver, the Canucks will be forced into a rebuilding mode, and any deal that happens will end up being the best package of youth and building blocks for the future they can get from the very limited number of teams that Luongo will waive his NTC to go to... this is of course a disadvantage to the Canucks - they aren't going to generate the return for him that they could without that NTC. So how many competitive teams (those that Luongo will waive his NTC to go to) actually have a need for a top goalie? 4 or 5?

The offseason will go a long way to determining what happens with Luongo. If the Sedins walk, chances are that you aren't going to replace 2 top line players in FA. The team also doesn't really have a great deal of trade assets to recover from that loss either. If the Sedins walk, there's a good chance, IMO, that Luongo won't re-sign that extension before the season starts, and that's where trading him and going into rebuilding mode may happen (as Luongo has already indicated he wasn't comfortable going into a season with a contract hanging over his head).

If all that happens, than a Luongo deal to the Flyers wouldn't surprise me... but they'd have to be willing to drop those contracts to other teams to make room for Luongo. If this were to happen, the Canucks would very clearly be in rebuilding mode.
I agree

first time we agree where I did not have to get you in a head lock

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:54 PM
  #42
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Although I doubt Luongo is dealt, I don't believe trading Luongo means rebuild. By trading him, the Canucks probably get deeper up front and with the departure of a few guys, have money to beef up the backend. After that, it is really a boom or bust scenario as to whether or not Shneider can come in and be a serviceable netminder behind an improved offense that was already 11th in the league and likely a more mobile defense. This is based on signing the Sedins and then adding an established top line player in the Luongo trade.

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05-15-2009, 03:56 PM
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Yeah obviously Hextall didn't count...that's why his number's retired.
Might want to say to Steve Downie to stop wearing it, then.

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05-15-2009, 03:57 PM
  #44
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So you are saying that Luongo will only get scrubs and over paid third line demented players for him?
Saying they won't get a Richards or a Carter is not the same thing as saying they will get scrubs and salary dumps. I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion.

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05-15-2009, 03:59 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Saying they won't get a Richards or a Carter is not the same thing as saying they will get scrubs and salary dumps. I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion.
They could get one of them. I'm not sure they would be interested in Lupul the 4.5 million 45 points forward.

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Old
05-15-2009, 04:08 PM
  #46
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They could get one of them. I'm not sure they would be interested in Lupul the 4.5 million 45 points forward.
2.31m 50 point forward?

4.25m ?? point forward?

God I can't wait til next season. Lupul and a 1st for Kaberle?

That's about the same value as Carter and a 1st for Kaberle last season.

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Old
05-15-2009, 04:18 PM
  #47
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If the Flyers are talking to the Canucks it's about pieces like Briere, Lupul, Carle, and POSSIBLY Gagne with possibly JVR and a 1st in the mix. The Flyers are not talking to the Canucks about Carter or Giroux or Richards.
You should do stand up.

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Old
05-15-2009, 04:22 PM
  #48
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They could get one of them. I'm not sure they would be interested in Lupul the 4.5 million 45 points forward.
I don't think they'd be interested in Lupul but you're crazy if you think they get a 24 year old PPG center for 1 year of Luongo. Richards is virtually untouchable which is why the Flyers essentially locked him up for his entire career. Carter is our only center with size and Holmgren has said we need to get bigger, not smaller. He is also nearly a 50 goal scorer and they don't grow on trees.

Luongo is valuable, but he isn't worth quite that much IMO.

Honestly I am not sure he would be worth it for the Flyers to pursue. They need some stability between the pipes, but I am not sure he is worth the maneuvering it will take to fit him under the cap especially if he is really seeking $8M.

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05-15-2009, 04:35 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
2.31m 50 point forward?

4.25m ?? point forward?

God I can't wait til next season. Lupul and a 1st for Kaberle?

That's about the same value as Carter and a 1st for Kaberle last season
.
i just made that exact point in another thread.


this article doesnt make alot of sense to me. the motivation behind acquiring briere and lupul would be to replace the sedins in the top 6. instead of the sedins who are pretty much one asset (especially if rumors of a nonseperation clause are true) theyd want to devote that cap space to two. key to remaining in contention would be resigning luongo. while hedging thier bet that they could deal briere and lupul seperately for a better deal then they could the sedins. at no point does the thought of dealing luongo become an option

secondly if they let the sedins walk for nothing theyd be entering a rebuild in which case theyd want picks and prospects for luongo. a package more like giroux + sbisa or jvr + parent along with a 1st. something philly would be loathe to do given the realities of a salary cap world.

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05-15-2009, 04:49 PM
  #50
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You got to think that if Luongo gets traded to Philly, he'd be signing an extension shortly thereafter. Otherwise, I doubt he waives his NTC. And if Philadelphia is not willing to part with Carter (I think Carter would be dealt before Richards would be), I only anticipate Vancouver finding a better offer.

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