Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
remember that his NTC has a negative value to a team that aquires him. Because if they decide that he is not a good fit or they have a bad year in 2 years, they can't try and get any asset for him at the end.
Kaberles had some rough times the past few seasons, but with the team being less than competitive its understandable.
Look at what guys got at the past few trade deadline to see what Kaberle would get. Do we all too soon forget that guys like Tkachuk got a 1rst, 2nd, 3rd and roster player? Obvious overpayment but still.
Any cup contender would love to pay a guy like this 4.25 for 2 years. Id say the leafs will get a 1rst, another draft pick and a young player.
Or they may go for something really high up and do something like Kaberle and the 7th overall for the 2nd overall.
Whoever thinks we're getting Carter is high. The Flyers wont let him go for Kaberle straight up after the clinic he put on this year (2nd in goals, 12th in points playing on a 1b line)
Kaberles had some rough times the past few seasons, but with the team being less than competitive its understandable.
Look at what guys got at the past few trade deadline to see what Kaberle would get. Do we all too soon forget that guys like Tkachuk got a 1rst, 2nd, 3rd and roster player? Obvious overpayment but still.
the thing abour Kaberle is that his performance has declined since the daily trade rumours started a couple of years ago. He is still very good but he may not be elite.
Worse, his play may further decline if he gets into a team situation he doesn't like. A comparable is Pitkanen who couldn't handle the intense scrutiny and fan pressure in Philly and Edmonton but is doing very well Carolina. If Carolina wants to trade him, about 1/2 of the GM's will not even look at him if their situations are similar to Philly and Edmonton.
Kaberle seems to be affected by all the news stories. If Burke could move him to a non traditional market, then he might absolutley flourish.
Forget trying to look at past trades that have gone down.... no 2 players are the same and no 2 cap situations are the same. Kaberle's value has to be justified based on his value to the leafs.
Kaberle can be a #1 defenceman for us long term if RW knew how to use him. His play problably isn't on the way down because he's a defenceman who uses his brains instead of body like Lidstrom, he just had a terrible year. Considering that he has been a lifetime leaf, there's problably a good chance that we could extend his contract to create a lifetime deal (like 8 year contract or something) with a great cap hit.
However, the leafs have more pressing needs; being for an entire top line. In order to justify trading Kaberle, the Leafs need a young player or prospect with the potential to be our franchise forward and a pretty good likelyhood of at least being a 1st line player. In addition to that we need insurance in the form of a 2nd asset with high end potential to cover for the fact that the chances of actually reaching that potential are far from 100%.... this could come in the form of a sub-15ish first round pick or another prospect/player. Finally, it may make sense to take on a slight salary dump, but also a player who might be able to help us.
What this means in practicality....
If Philly wants Kaberle, its JvR + upgrade from our #45 pick to their #20 pick
If Columbus wants Kaberle, its Voracek or Filatov + upgrade from our #45 pick (& a another 2nd rounder) to their #15 pick
If Tampa wants Kaberle, its the 2nd overall.
Forget trying to look at past trades that have gone down.... no 2 players are the same and no 2 cap situations are the same. Kaberle's value has to be justified based on his value to the leafs.
Kaberle can be a #1 defenceman for us long term if RW knew how to use him. His play problably isn't on the way down because he's a defenceman who uses his brains instead of body like Lidstrom, he just had a terrible year. Considering that he has been a lifetime leaf, there's problably a good chance that we could extend his contract to create a lifetime deal (like 8 year contract or something) with a great cap hit.
However, the leafs have more pressing needs; being for an entire top line. In order to justify trading Kaberle, the Leafs need a young player or prospect with the potential to be our franchise forward and a pretty good likelyhood of at least being a 1st line player. In addition to that we need insurance in the form of a 2nd asset with high end potential to cover for the fact that the chances of actually reaching that potential are far from 100%.... this could come in the form of a sub-15ish first round pick or another prospect/player. Finally, it may make sense to take on a slight salary dump, but also a player who might be able to help us.
What this means in practicality....
If Philly wants Kaberle, its JvR + upgrade from our #45 pick to their #20 pick
If Columbus wants Kaberle, its Voracek or Filatov + upgrade from our #45 pick (& a another 2nd rounder) to their #15 pick
If Tampa wants Kaberle, its the 2nd overall.
#1 defenceman for #1 forward.... simple as that.
Leafs get way too much in all those deals. We dont get a former 2nd overall and and first for kaberle . Heck id take just JvR for him. The only trade that could work there is the tampa one, but the leafs would have to add the 7th overall to make it fair.
I'm thinking maybe the Bruins trade Kessel + Ward to a Western Conference team and that Western Conference team gives up the player(s)/ draft pick needed for Kaberle to go to Boston.
I'd do Kaberle for Kessel even up without thinking twice about it ...but, i've always liked Kessel
Leafs get way too much in all those deals. We dont get a former 2nd overall and and first for kaberle . Heck id take just JvR for him. The only trade that could work there is the tampa one, but the leafs would have to add the 7th overall to make it fair.
JvR's value is nowhere near the pick that he was drafted with. When you spend so much time in the NCAA without really improving your numbers, your stock has definitely fallen. You're also not considering that its an UPGRADE to a 1st, not a first outright. At this point, Voracek & Gagner would definitely be considered better, with Alzner, Turris, Hickey having the potential to be.
The 7th overall + Kaberle is way too much for the 2nd. The talent dropoff between 2 and 7 isn't nearly as big as the fans on this board play it out to be. Maybe we include one of the 2nd rounders; but thats about it.
JvR's value is nowhere near the pick that he was drafted with. When you spend so much time in the NCAA without really improving your numbers, your stock has definitely fallen. You're also not considering that its an UPGRADE to a 1st, not a first outright. At this point, Voracek & Gagner would definitely be considered better, with Alzner, Turris, Hickey having the potential to be.
The 7th overall + Kaberle is way too much for the 2nd. The talent dropoff between 2 and 7 isn't nearly as big as the fans on this board play it out to be. Maybe we include one of the 2nd rounders; but thats about it.
agreed, but if you want a top talent like hedman or duchene, it will cost us kaberle and the 7th. Also, JvR value is at a low right now, defiantly not worth the 2nd overall, but he is still a top prospect with first line potential.
agreed, but if you want a top talent like hedman or duchene, it will cost us kaberle and the 7th. Also, JvR value is at a low right now, defiantly not worth the 2nd overall, but he is still a top prospect with first line potential.
The 7th is one of Brayden Schenn, Evander Kane or Jared Cowen!!!... all potential top line franchise talent.
You don't give up a current top line player and a potential future top line player for a potential future top line player with a slightly greater likelyhood of being a franchise player.
With Van Riemsdyk, if he's alone you're trading Top Line Player for Top Line Potential.... there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between the two.
the thing abour Kaberle is that his performance has declined since the daily trade rumours started a couple of years ago. He is still very good but he may not be elite.
Worse, his play may further decline if he gets into a team situation he doesn't like. A comparable is Pitkanen who couldn't handle the intense scrutiny and fan pressure in Philly and Edmonton but is doing very well Carolina. If Carolina wants to trade him, about 1/2 of the GM's will not even look at him if their situations are similar to Philly and Edmonton.
Kaberle seems to be affected by all the news stories. If Burke could move him to a non traditional market, then he might absolutley flourish.
Its def possible, but I really dont see Kaberle resulting in that kind of performance. Taking Sundin and McCabe out of the equation is what hurt his numbers the most. He's played internationally and at all-star games and shown he can play with the best. I think if he got put on a team with a real first line he would flourish.
Not easy for puck moving defensemen to get points when theres no one to move the puck to ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggzy
Leafs fans are expecting the world for Kaberle. Don't be disappointed when you get a draft pick and someone like Dan Carcillo for him.
If Boyle can get 2 first rounders and 2 prospects after coming off a serious injury missing a season I think Kaberle can pull down at least a 1rst rounder, 3rd rounder and prospect.
The logic shouldnt be that a) we should trade him because he has a good contract b) we should trade him because he is our best player.
Those are reasons we should keep somebody.
The logic shouldnt be that a) we should trade him because he has a good contract b) we should trade him because he is our best player.
Those are reasons we should keep somebody.
So...keep kabs unless you get an overpayment.
I would agree... Unless Burke gets an offer that blows his socks off, I would hang onto him for another 1 1/2 years and then trade him at the TDL in 2011.
I look at these valuation threads and don't see much difference between what we could get now, and what a top pairing defenseman goes for at the TDL as a rental... I mean, what we get an extra 3rd round draft pick or something if we move him now?
Its def possible, but I really dont see Kaberle resulting in that kind of performance. Taking Sundin and McCabe out of the equation is what hurt his numbers the most. He's played internationally and at all-star games and shown he can play with the best. I think if he got put on a team with a real first line he would flourish.
Not easy for puck moving defensemen to get points when theres no one to move the puck to ...
If Boyle can get 2 first rounders and 2 prospects after coming off a serious injury missing a season I think Kaberle can pull down at least a 1rst rounder, 3rd rounder and prospect.
JvR's value is nowhere near the pick that he was drafted with. When you spend so much time in the NCAA without really improving your numbers, your stock has definitely fallen. You're also not considering that its an UPGRADE to a 1st, not a first outright. At this point, Voracek & Gagner would definitely be considered better, with Alzner, Turris, Hickey having the potential to be.
The 7th overall + Kaberle is way too much for the 2nd. The talent dropoff between 2 and 7 isn't nearly as big as the fans on this board play it out to be. Maybe we include one of the 2nd rounders; but thats about it.
Dream on.
The 7th overall and Kaberle wouldn't begin to get you the second. Tampa has already made that clear. Their own explictly said he would insist on Schenn or no deal.
And, the falloff in talent between Cowen and Hedman/Tavares is quite substantial.
The 7th overall and Kaberle wouldn't begin to get you the second. Tampa has already made that clear. Their own explictly said he would insist on Schenn or no deal.
And, the falloff in talent between Cowen and Hedman/Tavares is quite substantial.
You're problably right, Tampa doesn't value Kaberle enough to make the deal. They are looking for the world and aren't going to get it. Simply put, if Tampa doesn't lower thier asking price, they can draft Tavares or Hedman at #2 and see how that works out for them. The Leafs aren't overflowing with talent to the point where we can start trading 2 first liners for 1.
Cowen is better than or at worst equal to Hedman if it wasnt for the injury.
Brayden Schenn has nowhere near the high end offensive potential that Tavares does; but he is by far the most complete prospect in the draft. Plus, if his offensive skills are good enough to translate to an NHL top line; he'll easily be a player very similar to Getzlaf.
You're problably right, Tampa doesn't value Kaberle enough to make the deal. They are looking for the world and aren't going to get it. Simply put, if Tampa doesn't lower thier asking price, they can draft Tavares or Hedman at #2 and see how that works out for them. The Leafs aren't overflowing with talent to the point where we can start trading 2 first liners for 1.
Cowen is better than or at worst equal to Hedman if it wasnt for the injury.
Brayden Schenn has nowhere near the high end offensive potential that Tavares does; but he is by far the most complete prospect in the draft. Plus, if his offensive skills are good enough to translate to an NHL top line; he'll easily be a player very similar to Getzlaf.
The difference between you and and the typical poster is that you've actually spent time watching a lot of kids and then you make up your mind in a very informed way.
Also, you are always polite and friendly even when others get snippy with you.
Have you seen star trek? I've never watched the show or movies before, but I just watched the new one that just came out and WOW it totally blew me away. I give it 100 stars
