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Edm/Penner to Boston or Montreal

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Old
05-17-2009, 11:45 AM
  #51
Nunymare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
No offense to Edmonton, the city, the fans or the Oilers, but when you start off with the premise that Boston needs to make a deal to shed some salary and then offer up a deal that INCREASES their salary and returns a worse player..... yeah that's gonna cause some flaming.
I am not supporting the original proposal in any way, shape or form.

I am just saying that just because 2 players are overpaid on this team, no need to stereotype.

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Old
05-17-2009, 12:16 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
Since when is a guy who has 23 and 17 goals in his past 2 seasons a "bust"?

"Overpaid" and "bust" are not the same thing.
I think it's fair to call it a bust of a signing, even if he's not a bust of a player.

Really, the Ducks seemed to get more out of him in 12 or 13 minutes per game, than the Oilers do in 15-17. Not really sure why, other than to suggest that maybe Carlyle's simply a better coach.

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Old
05-17-2009, 12:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
I think it's fair to call it a bust of a signing, even if he's not a bust of a player.

Really, the Ducks seemed to get more out of him in 12 or 13 minutes per game, than the Oilers do in 15-17. Not really sure why, other than to suggest that maybe Carlyle's simply a better coach.
I don't think anybody's disagreeing that he's considerably overpaid.


As for why Penner was more productive in Anaheim, probably better linemates... he did get to play with Getzlaf, didn't he? At the time of the signing, I recall Ducks fans arguing that Penner's stats were inflated by his linemates, and it looks like there may have been some truth to that.

And I do think coaching factors in. Penner was dicked around this season. First, getting shuffled onto the checking line to make way for Erik "Epik Fail" Cole, and then shuffled all over the lineup as MacTavish floundered around trying to find anything that clicked.


The last time the Oilers had a 1st line that actually produced like a 1st line was in December-January of the '07-08 season, between the time where Penner finally developed some chemistry with Horcoff and Hemsky, and the All-star break when Horcoff suffered the season-ending injury. Penner had 10 goals in 27 games during that span and it seemed like the signing wasn't going to be so bad after all.

That's why I really want to give Penner another chance with a different coach, and hopefully management will also take some steps to fix the Oilers' dismal situation at center so that Horcoff can play regular shifts instead of running on and off the ice to cover for a bunch of centers who can't check or win faceoffs.

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Old
05-17-2009, 10:14 PM
  #54
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what would edm think of staios penner and peckham to philly for briere. i dont think teh contracts involved would be as bad for the team thier going to as they are for the ones theyre on. cap is 7.2 to philly and 6.5 for edmonton with about a mil each in dead money(the amount these players are overpaid) philly spreads it out and edm utilises it to gain a number 1 center.

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Old
05-17-2009, 11:06 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
As for why Penner was more productive in Anaheim, probably better linemates... he did get to play with Getzlaf, didn't he? At the time of the signing, I recall Ducks fans arguing that Penner's stats were inflated by his linemates, and it looks like there may have been some truth to that.
He only played with Getzlaf situationally. Most of the time he was on the 4th line with Marchant. He'd get some PP time, and when the Getzlaf line was rolling and the Ducks needed a goal Penner might play with them, but that was about it; note that in the playoffs you were more likely to see Brad May with Getzlaf/Perry than Penner. Carlyle wasn't afraid to bench him for stretches either.

Of course, it's also worth noting that Getzlaf in '06-07, while up and coming, wasn't nearly as dominant as he is now. So I'm not sure how much benefit Penner gained from that, although stylistically it was certainly a good fit.

Quote:
And I do think coaching factors in. Penner was dicked around this season. First, getting shuffled onto the checking line to make way for Erik "Epik Fail" Cole, and then shuffled all over the lineup as MacTavish floundered around trying to find anything that clicked.
Maybe it's just a question of knowing when to demote him to the 4th line, when to bench him outright, and when to give him spot minutes. He's definitely high-maintenance ... not a player you just throw out there anytime and not have to worry about him.

Of course, all the button pushing in the world, and Carlyle still couldn't get him to contribute worth **** in the playoffs that year, so who knows? Maybe he'll just always be one of those enigmatic players, who contributes some but always leaves you feeling like he could have done more.

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Old
05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
  #56
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lol! so boston adds contract they dont want and Montreal trades away one of the Free agents they actually want to keep? For that contract? Stop trying to trade him and waive him.

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Old
05-18-2009, 10:09 AM
  #57
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Is it possible this is the first time Habs and Bruins fans agree on something ?

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Old
05-18-2009, 12:09 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
He only played with Getzlaf situationally. Most of the time he was on the 4th line with Marchant. He'd get some PP time, and when the Getzlaf line was rolling and the Ducks needed a goal Penner might play with them, but that was about it; note that in the playoffs you were more likely to see Brad May with Getzlaf/Perry than Penner. Carlyle wasn't afraid to bench him for stretches either.

Of course, it's also worth noting that Getzlaf in '06-07, while up and coming, wasn't nearly as dominant as he is now. So I'm not sure how much benefit Penner gained from that, although stylistically it was certainly a good fit.

Maybe it's just a question of knowing when to demote him to the 4th line, when to bench him outright, and when to give him spot minutes. He's definitely high-maintenance ... not a player you just throw out there anytime and not have to worry about him.

Of course, all the button pushing in the world, and Carlyle still couldn't get him to contribute worth **** in the playoffs that year, so who knows? Maybe he'll just always be one of those enigmatic players, who contributes some but always leaves you feeling like he could have done more.
I remember at the time of the offer sheet, a lot of Ducks fans said that he wasn't really a 29 goal player and that his numbers were inflated because of X, and I can't remember exactly what X was but I thought it was Getzlaf and Perry.

Anyway, obviously he hasn't scored 29 goals since, but if the reason is having a coach who knows how to deal with him, then maybe there's hope. And maybe he'll achieve some maturity on his own.

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Old
05-18-2009, 12:43 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasmagorical View Post
I am not supporting the original proposal in any way, shape or form.

I am just saying that just because 2 players are overpaid on this team, no need to stereotype.
While those 2 are the most egregious it's not like Edmonton has been frugal with contracts.

Souray & Visnovsky are not values @ over 5 mil a season
Staios @ 2.7 isn't a great contract either
Pissani & Moreau are also pretty overpaid for 3rd/4th liners
Finally while it might be a "bad year" O'sullivan & Nilsson can easily be called overpaid for last year.

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