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Balsillie/Phoenix part III

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Old
05-18-2009, 04:12 PM
  #1
LadyStanley
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Balsillie/Phoenix part III

Continuing discussion on Jim Balsillie's offer to purchase the NHL Phoenix Coyotes franchise and move it to Hamilton, Onatrio; battle for ownership between NHL and Jerry Moyes, bankruptcy declaration and court case.

Previous thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=640385


Thread containing links to legal/court documents filed in case: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=640482


(Please do not discuss division realignment or other relocation possibilities. Thank you.)

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05-18-2009, 04:30 PM
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Anyone know when the hearing is tomorrow?

Will we know by the end of the day whether Balsillie can and will move the team to Hamilton, or are there going to be further dates in court before that can be determined?

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05-18-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
Anyone know when the hearing is tomorrow?

Will we know by the end of the day whether Balsillie can and will move the team to Hamilton, or are there going to be further dates in court before that can be determined?
BOH mod mouser plans to attend the hearing, and report on proceedings (perhaps from courtroom).

All we *may* know tomorrow is who controls the team (NHL or Moyes).

If the NHL is in control, the bankruptcy filing is kinda null and void.

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05-18-2009, 05:12 PM
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...sptbettman0518

Someone's reading/hijacking NHL internal emails?

Quote:
National Hockey Commissioner Gary Bettman confirmed in an internal e-mail sent last month that the league should offer the Phoenix Coyotes to Winnipeg before relocating the club anywhere else.

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05-18-2009, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...sptbettman0518

Someone's reading/hijacking NHL internal emails?
I wonder if there's any chance of that still coming true?

At this point, who in their right mind is going to buy the Coyotes with the intention of keeping them in Phoenix, especially after all the millions that Moyes lost since buying the team in 2001 have now become public.

Clearly the NHL (or at least Bettman) seems to be on board with the idea of relocating them to Winnipeg, meaning it would be a much easier course of action than what Balsillie is trying to do with Hamilton. This way Bettman still "makes it seven" and gets at least part of the Canadian market back on his side.

It'll be an interesting day tomorrow.


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05-18-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...sptbettman0518

Someone's reading/hijacking NHL internal emails?
It was filed with the court by the League as a part of the case.

If we read the email:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/co...df/bettman.pdf


I think it shows a number of things:

Bettman discussed that Moyes did not have the right to discuss moving the team with anyone, and his attorney Scudder said that he understood that. Additionally, it shows Bettman was keeping Moyes up to date on the Reinsdorf situation. Anyone who claims Bettman is taking out any anti-Canadian anger needs to read the e-mail; Upon reading the email, it demonstrates that in my opinion, Moyes was clearly involved in a conspiracy with Balsillie.

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05-18-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
Anyone know when the hearing is tomorrow?

Will we know by the end of the day whether Balsillie can and will move the team to Hamilton, or are there going to be further dates in court before that can be determined?
Hearing is at 1:30PM Arizona time.

Will everything be decided completely then? Unknown. The first and key issue is whether Moyes or the NHL is in control of the team. That will have repercussions on all the other court motions.

Even if all the possible rulings were to go in Balsillie's favor tomorrow, it would open up an auction process where another prospective ownership group could attempt to outbid Balsillie and presumably move the team wherever they wanted in the GTA or otherwise.

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05-18-2009, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Hearing is at 1:30PM Arizona time.

Will everything be decided completely then? Unknown. The first and key issue is whether Moyes or the NHL is in control of the team. That will have repercussions on all the other court motions.

Even if all the possible rulings were to go in Balsillie's favor tomorrow, it would open up an auction process where another prospective ownership group could attempt to outbid Balsillie and presumably move the team wherever they wanted in the GTA or otherwise.
Mouser, you don't really think the court will rule on the anti-trust portion tomorrow, do you? Unless the court makes that ruling, moving the team without league agreement is not on the table.

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05-18-2009, 05:50 PM
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Huge news for Winnipeg. Saturday morning's story in the Globe and Mail (which was sent to many, many more media outlets via the Canadian Press) was worded to the effect that IF the Coyotes were to move to CANADA, Winnipeg would be preferred over Hamilton. It turns out the league would actually put Winnipeg ahead of any potential markets in America, too.

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05-18-2009, 05:54 PM
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Mouser, you don't really think the court will rule on the anti-trust portion tomorrow, do you? Unless the court makes that ruling, moving the team without league agreement is not on the table.
The anti-trust suit is a separate prong of attack.

Moyes/Balsillie are still asking the bankruptcy court to force the NHL to accept ownership change & relocation independent of how the anti-trust action plays out.

In my opinion it's doubtful a bankruptcy court would decide it has that authority, but then that's just my opinion.

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05-18-2009, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
It was filed with the court by the League as a part of the case.

If we read the email:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/co...df/bettman.pdf


I think it shows a number of things:

Bettman discussed that Moyes did not have the right to discuss moving the team with anyone, and his attorney Scudder said that he understood that. Additionally, it shows Bettman was keeping Moyes up to date on the Reinsdorf situation. Anyone who claims Bettman is taking out any anti-Canadian anger needs to read the e-mail; Upon reading the email, it demonstrates that in my opinion, Moyes was clearly involved in a conspiracy with Balsillie.
This email looks like it's a pre-emptive strike because he knew Balsillie was circling. Why would he mention Winnipeg when Vegas and Kansas City have been mentioned so many times? He knows that if anyone is going to put a team in Southern Ontario it will be Balsillie and that there would be a very real likelihood of the courts being involved so this document could make it look like Winnipeg is an option. Besides that, how many other emails regarding this sale went between he and Daly that he doesn't want us to know about?

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05-18-2009, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
This email looks like it's a pre-emptive strike because he knew Balsillie was circling. Why would he mention Winnipeg when Vegas and Kansas City have been mentioned so many times? He knows that if anyone is going to put a team in Southern Ontario it will be Balsillie and that there would be a very real likelihood of the courts being involved so this document could make it look like Winnipeg is an option. Besides that, how many other emails regarding this sale went between he and Daly that he doesn't want us to know about?
It's very simple. Moyes counsel can request all documents pertaining to any discussions of the sale or movement of the Coyotes. If the league didn't deliver all of them, they could face court sanctions.

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure would include emails (all documents) within the League's defined retention policy. Anything that involves a contract would I believe need to be retained for the life of the contract, plus the retention period. What I've seen in correspondence of this type is a typical retention period of somewhere between 3 and 7 years.

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05-18-2009, 06:35 PM
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So again I ask, what happened to all the Bettman hates Canada posters? he clearly shows he prefers having a team there, whenever that should happen..

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05-18-2009, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
This email looks like it's a pre-emptive strike because he knew Balsillie was circling. Why would he mention Winnipeg when Vegas and Kansas City have been mentioned so many times? He knows that if anyone is going to put a team in Southern Ontario it will be Balsillie and that there would be a very real likelihood of the courts being involved so this document could make it look like Winnipeg is an option. Besides that, how many other emails regarding this sale went between he and Daly that he doesn't want us to know about?
Vegas, like the Southern Ontario option, represents a $300+ million expansion fee. The only time talk of Vegas has come up is with expansion in mind, and figures of $300-400 million have been floated. Furthermore, I think Bruckheimer is part of a group that was planning on building an arena to house the new team. I doubt he'd want to house it in a competing venue in the meantime.

Quote:
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So again I ask, what happened to all the Bettman hates Canada posters? he clearly shows he prefers having a team there, whenever that should happen..
I think it's safe to say that it's not so much about Canada, but more about territorial rights, indemnity fees and expansion fees. If you have to move a team, you have to find a situation that is the most favorable to all the other 29 owners... In a perfect world, the BOG would want a location that isn't reliant on revenue sharing for survival, has an NHL ready arena, and doesn't encroach on another team's territory-- or the money that would come from an expansion fee.

 
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05-18-2009, 06:48 PM
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I totally think he has no love for Canada. He showed that by never going to the ends of the earth to save the Nords or Jets like he's done for Phoenix, Nashville and Pittsburgh. The fun part is watching it all unravel in Phoenix and whatever other sunbelt team that's next.

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05-18-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I totally think he has no love for Canada. He showed that by never going to the ends of the earth to save the Nords or Jets like he's done for Phoenix, Nashville and Pittsburgh. The fun part is watching it all unravel in Phoenix and whatever other sunbelt team that's next.
What are you talking about? ....the Bettman e-mail released today specifically says if the Coyotes move "it should first be offered to Winnipeg." That doesn't sound like someone who's anti-Canada or anti-Winnipeg to me.


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05-18-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I totally think he has no love for Canada. He showed that by never going to the ends of the earth to save the Nords or Jets like he's done for Phoenix, Nashville and Pittsburgh. The fun part is watching it all unravel in Phoenix and whatever other sunbelt team that's next.
same can be said for Quebec province NOT CARING about whether they had a competitor to the Canadiens

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05-18-2009, 08:18 PM
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This is possibly just an uninformed comment, but the more I think about this whole situation of Balsillie trying to bring a team to the Hamilton area, the more I believe that it's not so much anti-Balsillie that comes into play, though that may be a part of it, but rather it's the strong arm of the MLSE working behind the scenes to prevent another team from being established in the area, at least not a team that they don't have some involvement with (whether that's possible at all).

Now with all the info coming out that Winnipeg could be considered if the Coyotes have to be moved, I just don't see how Winnipeg can be seen as being any more attractive a location than the Hamilton area. I'm not putting Winnipeg down, but if the League is considering financial practicality, I just don't see the sense of fighting hard against Hamilton, but saying ok to Winnipeg (if someone comes forward who can make Winnipeg work).

Oh sure, I've read talk about getting expansion fees rather than just having a team bought and relocated, but how does that make any difference whether it's Hamilton or Winnipeg?

And of course there are the arenas, but neither the Copps nor the MTS is the ideal situation. Is one so much worse than the other? At least in the Hamilton case, we can imagine that a new arena would probably be built in the area sometime in the not too distant future. I don't think that's the case in Winnipeg.

So, would the League stab themselves in their feet just for the sake of Balsillie's personality, or is there something more here? I'm feeling sure that the primary force in play against Hamilton is the MLSE.

Now, after writing that, someone is quickly going to post a reply that shows I'm wrong... right?

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05-18-2009, 08:31 PM
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http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...18/daily7.html

Moyes arguing that a loan does not control take.



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=279163

CP previewing hearing in bankruptcy court.

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05-18-2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...18/daily7.html

Moyes arguing that a loan does not control take.
Another bizjournals piece that I don't think has been posted here yet.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...1/daily73.html

Quote:
The National Hockey League said in court filings this week that the Phoenix Coyotes could have ceased operations during the middle of the 2008-09 season without cash injections from the league, and that team owner Jerry Moyes signed proxies and other documents giving the NHL control of the team in November.

The NHL court filings said the Coyotes’ financial situation was bad enough that the team could have ceased operations during the middle of the season, which would have resulted in forfeited games and a franchise shutdown. That would have sparked lawsuits from vendors, players not being paid, season-ticket holders with invalid tickets, and embarrassment for the league, the NHL said.

...

NHL court filings contend Moyes legally signed over majority control of the team in November after receiving loans. The league did not officially remove Moyes as owner and Coyotes CEO until May 5, after he filed Chapter 11 and proposed the sale to Balsillie.

“Upon execution of the November proxies, the NHL commissioner, Gary Bettman, was thereafter completely responsible for, without limitation, the removal and appointment of club executives (including Mr. Moyes), decisions on delegating day-to-day responsibilities to club personnel, loan and financing decisions, any changes to the club’s equity structure, the sale of any club assets, voting and consent rights under the franchise operating agreement and other agreements, and most notably here the voluntary or involuntary bankruptcy, dissolution, liquidation, termination or reorganization of the club and/or any of its subsidiaries,” the NHL filing contends.

“Accordingly, as of Nov. 14, 2008, only the NHL commissioner was authorized to sell the club or seek voluntary bankruptcy on its behalf,” the league argues.

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05-18-2009, 08:54 PM
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This is possibly just an uninformed comment, but the more I think about this whole situation of Balsillie trying to bring a team to the Hamilton area, the more I believe that it's not so much anti-Balsillie that comes into play, though that may be a part of it, but rather it's the strong arm of the MLSE working behind the scenes to prevent another team from being established in the area, at least not a team that they don't have some involvement with (whether that's possible at all).

Now with all the info coming out that Winnipeg could be considered if the Coyotes have to be moved, I just don't see how Winnipeg can be seen as being any more attractive a location than the Hamilton area. I'm not putting Winnipeg down, but if the League is considering financial practicality, I just don't see the sense of fighting hard against Hamilton, but saying ok to Winnipeg (if someone comes forward who can make Winnipeg work).

Oh sure, I've read talk about getting expansion fees rather than just having a team bought and relocated, but how does that make any difference whether it's Hamilton or Winnipeg?

And of course there are the arenas, but neither the Copps nor the MTS is the ideal situation. Is one so much worse than the other? At least in the Hamilton case, we can imagine that a new arena would probably be built in the area sometime in the not too distant future. I don't think that's the case in Winnipeg.

So, would the League stab themselves in their feet just for the sake of Balsillie's personality, or is there something more here? I'm feeling sure that the primary force in play against Hamilton is the MLSE.

Now, after writing that, someone is quickly going to post a reply that shows I'm wrong... right?
There's certainly something to it. If I recall correctly the revenue and cost projections put forth by the Chipman group, revenue sharing was included in the equation. There had been concern at what a sustainable avg ticket price would be in Winnipeg; whereas in Hamilton/Kitchener, people are accustomed to Leafs prices and would view something that was $20-30 lower per ticket a relative bargain. That number, by the way, would still be at or above the NHL avg price per ticket. I don't know that Balsillie is counting on revenue sharing. Wasn't there some talk during the Nashville offer he put forth that he wouldn't need/want revenue sharing?

 
Old
05-18-2009, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...18/daily7.html

Moyes arguing that a loan does not control take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Another bizjournals piece that I don't think has been posted here yet.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...1/daily73.html
Perhaps this is oversimplification, but the NHL has loaned Moyes ~$30 million, and now claims that they can dispense with the asset as they see fit. Moyes has invested/spent/lost some $300 million and hopes to get ~30 cents on the dollar back with JB's offer. The NHL/Reinsdorf deal would give him 9 cents on the dollar back....

I guess I see a huge gulf between a $30 million loan and, in essence, ownership of a franchise that has - by virtue of two offers - a far greater value (one of which is $100 million greater than the other).

 
Old
05-18-2009, 09:18 PM
  #23
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i dont know about this Bettman hates Canada stuff ... as a well noted anti owner person during the lockout, i think Bettman is brilliant at his job and i really dont see how he would leave this large a loophole open.

if the NHL loaned Moyes money, i am sure GB had all his ducks in a row, i wouldn bet against him.

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05-18-2009, 09:32 PM
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i dont know about this Bettman hates Canada stuff ... as a well noted anti owner person during the lockout, i think Bettman is brilliant at his job and i really dont see how he would leave this large a loophole open.

if the NHL loaned Moyes money, i am sure GB had all his ducks in a row, i wouldn bet against him.

What about Moyes though? 40+ years in Glendale... he's a local guy, he has spent $300 million thus far, and now he simply cannot keep the team afloat. Is it okay to ask him to walk away because the league loaned him $30 million? I'm just asking.

 
Old
05-18-2009, 10:06 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
This email looks like it's a pre-emptive strike because he knew Balsillie was circling. Why would he mention Winnipeg when Vegas and Kansas City have been mentioned so many times? He knows that if anyone is going to put a team in Southern Ontario it will be Balsillie and that there would be a very real likelihood of the courts being involved so this document could make it look like Winnipeg is an option. Besides that, how many other emails regarding this sale went between he and Daly that he doesn't want us to know about?
To me that email makes it look like there are no real, legitimate, offers for the team, and that Bettman at some point does think that relocation will be the only solution. If Balsille tried to strike this deal and move the team to Winnipeg, I bet the NHL would let it happen. He says "we are running out of time" and "no one is interested in funding $40 million in losses." The GIANT elephant in the room is the Goldwater Institute who will challenge any subsidy Glendale puts forward which will make the Reinsdorf deal not work, which in turn could allow the league to either disband or put them into bankruptcy. There is only one ending to this story and it will be with the Coyotes dead. It is just a mtter of when and who will pull the trigger.

Also its proof to all of the blind Coyotes fans that have been arguing all year that everything will be ok, that actually it was as bad as Shoalts and the G&M said it was all along. How you like them apples?

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