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Gilbert+Cogliano for Gomez + Rights to Zherdev

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Old
05-18-2009, 05:44 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
That's nice. I would take either Sedin over Gomez any day. And the cap hit is the most important part in todays NHL, and the Sedins will not have a 7.3 cap hit.
I'm glad you like it.

If a team(cough,cough the Oilers or Montreal)can't attract a top free agent and they decided to trade for Gomez or Briere,they would in a sense be acquiring a free agent contract and dumping their bad contract(s)in the process.

In this economy,the real money is the actual remaining monetary value on the contract.

If you can't see that,...................

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05-18-2009, 05:45 PM
  #27
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
No. It's not bad value wise, but we can't afford to Gilbert $4 million a season for such a long time when we have Redden, and have Del Zotto and Sangs coming up. We know we're going to have to take back a bad contract for Gomez, but I'd rather take Penner to be honest. He's a forward and his contract isn't as long.

I do like Cogliano though.
Its not bad value wise?

What are you talking about? Oil give the 2 best assets in the deal.

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05-18-2009, 05:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
Well everyone but the most entertaining homers would take Sedins at 13M$ over a single gomez at 7+
I absolutely hate the Sedins (mainly because Van is my second least favorite team) but I would absolutely rather have those two at that price more then Gomez at his. I would even take one of them at 7 mill over Gomez

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05-18-2009, 05:51 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Its not bad value wise?

What are you talking about? Oil give the 2 best assets in the deal.
Not to the Rangers. We have several Coglianos and we've got Del Zotto and Sanguinetti, one of whom is probably going to end up being better than Gilbert.

Gomez's terrible contract, meanwhile, isn't as big a deal for the Oilers, a team that struggles attracting free agents. And for all of Zherdev's flaws, he's still young and very talented, and is still a point producer.

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05-18-2009, 05:53 PM
  #30
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What is with people trying to trade D to the Rangers.

Are they playing 3 d and 2 F next year?

They already have Redden, Rozival, Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, Sang, Sauer, Morris Mara

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05-18-2009, 06:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by madpooh View Post
What is with people trying to trade D to the Rangers.

Are they playing 3 d and 2 F next year?

They already have Redden, Rozival, Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, Sang, Sauer, Morris Mara
Morris won't be resigned and most likely neither will Mara. Sangs will probably need another year in the AHL. Sauer is probaby ready and MDZ may be as well, but there's no point in rushing him.

Gilroy will likely make the team though. Unless we trade one of Rozy or Redden, I can't see us bringing in a dman unless it's a journeyman type on a 1 year deal.

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05-18-2009, 07:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
No. It's not bad value wise, but we can't afford to Gilbert $4 million a season for such a long time when we have Redden, and have Del Zotto and Sangs coming up. We know we're going to have to take back a bad contract for Gomez, but I'd rather take Penner to be honest. He's a forward and his contract isn't as long.

I do like Cogliano though.


Young defenseman with 45 points in his 2nd full season, stuck on the second PP unit of a terrible team, is bad at 4 mill/year?

He is an absolute steal at that price locked up long term, I hope to god we don't trade him.

Oh, and for sure Edmonton will do Penner/Cogliano for Gomez/rights to Zherdev.

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05-18-2009, 07:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Not to the Rangers. We have several Coglianos and we've got Del Zotto and Sanguinetti, one of whom is probably going to end up being better than Gilbert.

Gomez's terrible contract, meanwhile, isn't as big a deal for the Oilers, a team that struggles attracting free agents. And for all of Zherdev's flaws, he's still young and very talented, and is still a point producer.
You have no clue that DelZotto and or Sanguinneti will be better than Gilbert, and your telling me you wouldn't like to get rid of Gomez's contract for Cogliano? That would save you about 3 million to sign a better player... Zherdev is risky because he may go to Russia, I think your alone bud, more Rangers fans would do that, to say they wouldn't is homerism.

+ I dont see Sanguinneti or Del Zotto making immediate impact that NY needs on their D

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05-18-2009, 07:41 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post


Young defenseman with 45 points in his 2nd full season, stuck on the second PP unit of a terrible team, is bad at 4 mill/year?

He is an absolute steal at that price locked up long term, I hope to god we don't trade him.

Oh, and for sure Edmonton will do Penner/Cogliano for Gomez/rights to Zherdev.
It's a bad contract for us, and I've already told you why. We'll move Rozsival, but Redden will be impossible to move, Staal will be in line for a big raise next summer, Girardi will get a raise, and we are very high on Del Zotto and Sanguinetti, especially DZ. If even one of those guys reaches expectations, paying Gilbert 4 mill won't make much sense. If we didn't have Redden, than by all means we would want Gilbert.

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05-18-2009, 07:42 PM
  #35
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That's probably one of the crummier TP's I've seen on the boards in awhile... step yer game up pal.

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05-18-2009, 07:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
That's probably one of the crummier TP's I've seen on the boards in awhile... step yer game up pal.
What is so bad about it? The Rangers get rid of some salary while the Oilers pick up a top six forward.

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Old
05-18-2009, 07:49 PM
  #37
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Gilbert alone could be possibly worth that trade could he not?

I think a 45 point defenseman at 4 mill could have the same value as a 65 point centreman at over 7 mill and a 65 point winger who might not even be in the NHL next year. Either way the gap is not someone of Cogliano's calibre. Maybe if it's Nilsson instead or something.

Cogliano+Nilsson for the rights to Zherdev+Korpikoski+ Conditional 3rd if Zherdev doesn't resign.

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05-18-2009, 07:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
You have no clue that DelZotto and or Sanguinneti will be better than Gilbert, and your telling me you wouldn't like to get rid of Gomez's contract for Cogliano? That would save you about 3 million to sign a better player... Zherdev is risky because he may go to Russia, I think your alone bud, more Rangers fans would do that, to say they wouldn't is homerism.

+ I dont see Sanguinneti or Del Zotto making immediate impact that NY needs on their D
Homerism, lol. Feel free to peruse the Ranger board, or ask any Ranger fan on these boards, you'll quickly learn that there is no one alive that likes Scott Gomez less than I do. I think he is the most overrated player in the league, I can't stand seeing him in a Ranger jersey, everything about the way he plays the game bothers me.

I don't think I'm much of a homer. But you're right, most Ranger fans WOULD do it...then again, most Ranger fans thought signing Gomez and Drury was a great idea. I wasn't among them.

I'm glad you don't see them DZ or Sangs making an impact for the Rangers, but the Rangers do, especially in the case of Del Zotto. He looks like a total stud. Again, if we didn't have to pay Wade Redden 6.5 mill for 5 more seasons, then taking Gilbert's contract wouldn't be a big deal, but we do. So I'd rather bank on at least one of our two prospect defensemen, both of whom are among our top four prospects, becoming what we need on an entry-level deal, than bring a fairly large, long-term contract.

Let's pretend this trade gets done, and this is our defense in 2 seasons: Redden, Gilbert, Staal, Girardi, and two of the following: Gilroy, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Sauer. Do you understand that Redden and Gilbert alone would be 10.5 million, and at that point Staal will probably be earning 3-4 million, not to mention Girardi?

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Old
05-18-2009, 08:10 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Homerism, lol. Feel free to peruse the Ranger board, or ask any Ranger fan on these boards, you'll quickly learn that there is no one alive that likes Scott Gomez less than I do. I think he is the most overrated player in the league, I can't stand seeing him in a Ranger jersey, everything about the way he plays the game bothers me.

I don't think I'm much of a homer. But you're right, most Ranger fans WOULD do it...then again, most Ranger fans thought signing Gomez and Drury was a great idea. I wasn't among them.

I'm glad you don't see them DZ or Sangs making an impact for the Rangers, but the Rangers do, especially in the case of Del Zotto. He looks like a total stud. Again, if we didn't have to pay Wade Redden 6.5 mill for 5 more seasons, then taking Gilbert's contract wouldn't be a big deal, but we do. So I'd rather bank on at least one of our two prospect defensemen, both of whom are among our top four prospects, becoming what we need on an entry-level deal, than bring a fairly large, long-term contract.

Let's pretend this trade gets done, and this is our defense in 2 seasons: Redden, Gilbert, Staal, Girardi, and two of the following: Gilroy, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Sauer. Do you understand that Redden and Gilbert alone would be 10.5 million, and at that point Staal will probably be earning 3-4 million, not to mention Girardi?
Before you said it's not bad value wise for the Rangers, well...Value counts for the Oilers to, and just because we struggle signing FA's doesn't mean we want to take on the worst contract in the league. Value is actually great for the Rangers not just decent, which is what im getting at here.

I said Del Zotto and Sanguinneti will not make immediate impact to the Rangers, sure they will help them out in the future and we dont know how good they will be.

Say the trade did go through, You would have an easier time affording Girardi and Staal with Gomez gone wouldn't you?

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Old
05-18-2009, 08:19 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Let's pretend this trade gets done, and this is our defense in 2 seasons: Redden, Gilbert, Staal, Girardi, and two of the following: Gilroy, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Sauer. Do you understand that Redden and Gilbert alone would be 10.5 million, and at that point Staal will probably be earning 3-4 million, not to mention Girardi?
Three possible outcomes come out of this trade:

1. Gilbert is a bust, DZ and Sanguinetti are amazing and you have to let one go because you can't afford them. Unlikely, but you lose the trade in this scenario hard.

2. DZ and Sanguinetti are busts and Gilbert is amazing and acts as a safety net for you, allowing you to give your prospects more time to develop them, or give up on them and just stick with the defense you have. Unlikely, but you win the trade in this scenario.

3. DZ and Sanguinetti are amazing and so is Gilbert. You can now flip a proven Gilbert for far more than you gave up for him and keep your young defense. Based on your expectations for DZ and Sanguinetti, this sounds like the most likely scenario and you would win this scenario 10 out of 10 times unless your GM fails at flipping Gilbert for something decent.

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05-18-2009, 08:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Three possible outcomes come out of this trade:

1. Gilbert is a bust, DZ and Sanguinetti are amazing and you have to let one go because you can't afford them. Unlikely, but you lose the trade in this scenario hard.

2. DZ and Sanguinetti are busts and Gilbert is amazing and acts as a safety net for you, allowing you to give your prospects more time to develop them, or give up on them and just stick with the defense you have. Unlikely, but you win the trade in this scenario.

3. DZ and Sanguinetti are amazing and so is Gilbert. You can now flip a proven Gilbert for far more than you gave up for him and keep your young defense. Based on your expectations for DZ and Sanguinetti, this sounds like the most likely scenario and you would win this scenario 10 out of 10 times unless your GM fails at flipping Gilbert for something decent.
Yeah, well it's easy to say this when you completely ignore everything else about the team. You understand, of course, that if we give up Gomez AND Zherdev, we're going to need to replace those forwards with other forwards, not defensemen.

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05-18-2009, 08:42 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Yeah, well it's easy to say this when you completely ignore everything else about the team. You understand, of course, that if we give up Gomez AND Zherdev, we're going to need to replace those forwards with other forwards, not defensemen.
First of all, neither Gomez or Drury are playing like number one centres but are paid like it. It will be a LOT harder to move one of their massive contracts than it would be to move a contract like Gilbert, which I think can be moved for more value than Gomez (Considering the contracts they're attached to), which is why I don't want to do this trade from an edmonton perspective.

Secondly, what do you expect Zherdev to demand next season? I'm just curious. As a 60 point player, he can expect what, 4 million? Now you're looking at paying 18 million for Drury, Gomez and Zherdev, none of which got 60 points last season. You've also got 12 million locked up in Redden and Roszival and another 7 million in Lundqvist. This leaves you with all of 15-20 million to fill out 2-3 spots in your top 6, 5 spots in your bottom 6 and 2 D-men.

The best thing you can do right now is dump one of Gomez or Drury's contracts and the challenge will be to get decent value back for them at their current contract. I personally think it would be a brilliant move to take this trade even if you're just going to turn around and flip gilbert right away.

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05-18-2009, 08:44 PM
  #43
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Oilers say pass.

Zherdev isn't *that* good to take on Gomez's salary when you already have Horcoff and Gagner and Brule at the C spots.

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05-18-2009, 08:44 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
No deal unless you give us Hemsky and Gilbert and we'll give you Redden and Voros.
the first part of this proposal was disgraceful, you just made it worse, why on earth would Edmonton do a deal like that ?

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05-18-2009, 09:02 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
First of all, neither Gomez or Drury are playing like number one centres but are paid like it. It will be a LOT harder to move one of their massive contracts than it would be to move a contract like Gilbert, which I think can be moved for more value than Gomez (Considering the contracts they're attached to), which is why I don't want to do this trade from an edmonton perspective.

Secondly, what do you expect Zherdev to demand next season? I'm just curious. As a 60 point player, he can expect what, 4 million? Now you're looking at paying 18 million for Drury, Gomez and Zherdev, none of which got 60 points last season. You've also got 12 million locked up in Redden and Roszival and another 7 million in Lundqvist. This leaves you with all of 15-20 million to fill out 2-3 spots in your top 6, 5 spots in your bottom 6 and 2 D-men.

The best thing you can do right now is dump one of Gomez or Drury's contracts and the challenge will be to get decent value back for them at their current contract. I personally think it would be a brilliant move to take this trade even if you're just going to turn around and flip gilbert right away.
We should trade Gomez or Drury? Thanks for the tip. We know we have to trade Gomez or Drury, and considering Drury has an NMC and is our captain, and has the shorter contract, more than likely it will be Gomez if either is moved. And moving Rozsival is practically a given, as far as I'm concerned. If there is any move the Rangers are going to make this summer, it'll be trading Rozsival.

Zherdev is going to get offered his Qualifying offer, probably on a take it or leave it scenario, or at least that's the impression we're getting.

If we're going to turn around and flip Gilbert, than it's a totally different deal. It's a three way trade then, and then you introduce a whole different set of variables. But as it stands, trading for Gilbert doesn't make sense, because we'll be able to trade Gomez and get back a forward, probably one with a shorter contract than Gilbert's. Even I, as big a Gomez hater as there is, am sure that some team is going to want him. We get to watch all Ranger/Islander/Devil games here, and I've seen him play his entire career. I always thought he was incredibly overrated, but to no surprise, the Rangers weren't the only team to offer him big bucks when he was a UFA. Someone, probably a team that can't attract free agents and is desperate for a playmaker, will take him.

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Old
05-18-2009, 09:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by topcat986 View Post
the first part of this proposal was disgraceful, you just made it worse, why on earth would Edmonton do a deal like that ?
Let's take a wild stab at it...maybe he was just kidding?

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05-18-2009, 09:55 PM
  #47
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I don't see the Oilers making this deal unless they're really high on Gomez for some reason.

For the Rangers it's kind of hit or miss. Cogliano isn't really an improvement on our current group of centers. He reminds me too much of Matt Cullen. If Gagner was coming back instead, it would make more sense considering his ceiling is higher, but then the value is obviously way off. Also, it still leaves the Rangers with an abundance of centers, none of which are a true #1 at this point.

If the Rangers could dump Rozsival for a minimal return on salary, replacing him with Gilbert would be a win.

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05-18-2009, 10:53 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
I'm glad you like it.

If a team(cough,cough the Oilers or Montreal)can't attract a top free agent and they decided to trade for Gomez or Briere,they would in a sense be acquiring a free agent contract and dumping their bad contract(s)in the process.

In this economy,the real money is the actual remaining monetary value on the contract.

If you can't see that,...................
Not in Canada, or any team that wants to win.

You know Edmonton has a multibillionare owner who isn't be hit as bad as most in this economy, he is a pharmacutical giant, and jumped up the Billionares list again this year.

Nice try tho.

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05-19-2009, 10:06 AM
  #49
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How about

Roszival and rights to Zherdev for Gilbert and Pisani

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05-19-2009, 11:21 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
How about

Roszival and rights to Zherdev for Gilbert and Pisani
So... Rossival for Gilbert and Pisani, considering Zherdev would never sign here and he might go to KHL. NO

I wouldn't trade Pisani alone for Rossival!, We cannot take on a horrible contract like that.

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