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The Need for Another Defenseman

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Old
05-15-2009, 11:06 AM
  #176
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I want to know what people think.

Who would you take? Timonen 6.3M a year or Bouwmeester at 7.3M a year?

Try to be objective if possible and keep in mind that Timonen played 2-3 playoff rounds (around 15-17 games and scoring about 5-6 pts before he was traded from Nash).
Honestly, thats hard. Timonen is 34 and signed at that hit for awhile. While forwards decline by 34 (unless they are Knuble) defensemen can still be highly effective *cough* Niedermeyer *cough*.

However, Jay-Bo is 25. So locking him up for a while is not likely to hurt us beyond taking an extra mill off our cap.

IDK, I'd lean towards Jay-Bo due to age. I love Timonen though, and hope he can continue to be effective for years to come.

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Old
05-15-2009, 11:16 AM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I want to know what people think.

Who would you take? Timonen 6.3M a year or Bouwmeester at 7.3M a year?

Try to be objective if possible and keep in mind that Timonen played 2-3 playoff rounds (around 15-17 games and scoring about 5-6 pts before he was traded from Nash).
J-Bo just because he is almost a decade younger

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Old
05-15-2009, 03:07 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I want to know what people think.

Who would you take? Timonen 6.3M a year or Bouwmeester at 7.3M a year?

Try to be objective if possible and keep in mind that Timonen played 2-3 playoff rounds (around 15-17 games and scoring about 5-6 pts before he was traded from Nash).
For next 3 years, I will take Timmonen. But due to the fact J-Bo is almost a decade younger, then you have to lean towards him.

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05-15-2009, 09:45 PM
  #179
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If the Flyers sign Bouwmeester, they'd be tying up a large amount of salary in 1 player when there are cheaper options on the free agent market. If the Flyers can clear enough cap space through trades and salary dumps there are numerous defensemen who could as beneficial as Bouwmeester but at a cheaper price. By trading players like Lupul, Carle, Jones, Briere, Cote or Carcillo the Flyers could easily get a 2nd or 3rd line defenseman AND a 3rd-4th line faceoff specialist. Free agent players like Beauchemin, Zanon, Polak, Montador, Wisniewski, and Jurcina could all be decent role players on defense on the 2nd line paired with Coburn and on the 3rd paired with Sbisa. By taking the cheaper route on signing defensemen and clearing cap space then this can free up the money needed to extend Coburn and Parent. If they sign Bouwmeester there might not be enough cap space to sign both of them and not one or the other after next season.

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Old
05-16-2009, 09:44 PM
  #180
Larry44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I want to know what people think.

Who would you take? Timonen 6.3M a year or Bouwmeester at 7.3M a year?

Try to be objective if possible and keep in mind that Timonen played 2-3 playoff rounds (around 15-17 games and scoring about 5-6 pts before he was traded from Nash).
I've been thinking about this a lot. Kimmo is only going to decline from here. He's too small to keep taking brutal hits - and during the Pens series I started to realize that he's never going to be big enough or fast enough to contain Crosby and Malkin. JBo is.

It would take monumental orchestration, but Homer would have to make a deal with FLA for JBo's rights just before the Draft - based on his willingness to sign a contract. Then he'd have to trade Kimmo at the draft to stay under the cap. Then sign JBo before July 1.

JBo plays more minutes that Kimmo and scores more. I don't think we can afford to have both of them in the lineup at the same time. With $15MM tied up in two Dmen, and $31MM tied up in Briere, Richards, Gagne, Carter, Lupul and Hartnell, we're pushing $46M for 8 skaters.....That's also why they may need to deal Lupul if they can't persuade Briere to leave and someone to take him (can't count on it).

Bouwmeester-Parent - as a top pairing the fastest pairing in the league and can play both ways.
Carle-Coburn - great second pairing and both only 25 too.
Jones-Sbisa/Alberts - a lot could be done with this pairing. Jones could be dealt, Alberts not signed, Bodrov brought in. Whatever, the top four are built to eat up a lot of minutes for the next 10 years....

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Old
05-16-2009, 10:57 PM
  #181
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Gagne 5.2 Richards 5.75 Giroux .85 ========11.8
Hartnell 4.2 Carter 5M Briere 6.5 ========15.7
JVR/Nodl UFA/TradeCenter Grier
Carcillo 800K Betts 1M Asham 800K ========2.6

Timonen 6.3 Coburn 1.3 =======7.6
Jay-Bo 7.3 Parent .85 =======8.15
Sbisa .85 Vaananen 1M =======1.85 or Alberts
Biron 3M
Boucher 500K

20.95

About 51M with out 3rd line.

It would be nice to trade Lupul and Carle for a decent cheap 3rd line center that can score 15-18 goals a season 40pts.

Let Jones and Knuble walk.

I think I made a few mistakes (contracts #s)

It would be nice to have Upshall but Homer ****ed that up.

I think Flyers fans deserve some good moves this year from our genius GM, Eminger for 1st round pick, Downie for Carle, Upshall and 2nd for Carcillo, waived Vaananen and Metro as well as signing Jones to that generous contract. Those moves are not going to cut it.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 05-16-2009 at 11:24 PM.
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Old
05-17-2009, 09:54 AM
  #182
Larry44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Gagne 5.2 Richards 5.75 Giroux .85 ========11.8
Hartnell 4.2 Carter 5M Briere 6.5 ========15.7
JVR/Nodl UFA/TradeCenter Grier
Carcillo 800K Betts 1M Asham 800K ========2.6

Timonen 6.3 Coburn 1.3 =======7.6
Jay-Bo 7.3 Parent .85 =======8.15
Sbisa .85 Vaananen 1M =======1.85 or Alberts
Biron 3M
Boucher 500K

20.95

About 51M with out 3rd line.

It would be nice to trade Lupul and Carle for a decent cheap 3rd line center that can score 15-18 goals a season 40pts.

Let Jones and Knuble walk.

I think I made a few mistakes (contracts #s)

It would be nice to have Upshall but Homer ****ed that up.

I think Flyers fans deserve some good moves this year from our genius GM, Eminger for 1st round pick, Downie for Carle, Upshall and 2nd for Carcillo, waived Vaananen and Metro as well as signing Jones to that generous contract. Those moves are not going to cut it.
The problem with keeping both Kimmo and JBo is that Coburn's going to need a big contract next year too.

I'm not that bothered by the Eminger deal. It was worth a try, and if Jones and Parent had been healthy, Eminger would've fit in nicely on our third pairing and worked his way onto the PP.

Carle for Downie and Eminger is was a steal then and will only get better over time - esp. if Downie never gets his behavior in check enough to be an NHL starter.

The Carcillo deal was done to get Upshall out of town - and also because they probably could not have re-signed him anyway. It also got cap room to keep Giroux in the lineup.

Vaananen had lost his job to Parent and Metro is garbage - no loss there. Let Montreal pay him for doing nothing much at all.

Homer's real issues all surround the Carle salary and not doing something about it when Jones and Parent came back. I'm sure the plan was to trade Jones, but he was never healthy enough to be dealt.

I'd love it for Briere to take a trade rather than rot at 3RW, which would let us keep Lupul.

Whatever happens, someone's gotta go to make some cap room. It will depend who will take our problems off our hands, and what we'll have to do to sweeten the deals. It cost 2nd rounders for cap room and for LA to take Gauthier. I'm not expecting us to have our 1st round pick, as I think that will go to Montreal or somewhere else as incentive to take Briere....

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Old
05-19-2009, 11:15 AM
  #183
Sklodo
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I'm sure the plan was to trade Jones, but he was never healthy enough to be dealt.

I'd love it for Briere to take a trade rather than rot at 3RW, which would let us keep Lupul.

Whatever happens, someone's gotta go to make some cap room. It will depend who will take our problems off our hands, and what we'll have to do to sweeten the deals. It cost 2nd rounders for cap room and for LA to take Gauthier. I'm not expecting us to have our 1st round pick, as I think that will go to Montreal or somewhere else as incentive to take Briere....
I agree it doesn't seem right to pay Briere $6.5 million to be a 3rd liner who gets some PP time. If the Flyers could trade him, Jones, and either Carcillo or Cote they'd have enough money to make the minor upgrade to the defense (physical defenseman) and fill the needs of the offense (faceoff specialist and 1 more veteran). This way they can re-sign Knuble, who I think is incredibly valuable to the team not just with his scoring but his veteran experience as well.

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Old
05-19-2009, 01:16 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Sklodo View Post
I agree it doesn't seem right to pay Briere $6.5 million to be a 3rd liner who gets some PP time. If the Flyers could trade him, Jones, and either Carcillo or Cote they'd have enough money to make the minor upgrade to the defense (physical defenseman) and fill the needs of the offense (faceoff specialist and 1 more veteran). This way they can re-sign Knuble, who I think is incredibly valuable to the team not just with his scoring but his veteran experience as well.
1. If you don't like Briere on the third line then you'd better hope he gets moved up to the top 6 because that is the only place he's going. He's up there with Wade Redden and Chris Drury as one of the most untradeable contracts in the league. Not saying that he's as unproductive as those two, but he has a full NMC so even if you do find someone willing to take on his huge cap hit, he can just veto it.

2. You don't trade guys like Cote and Carcillo if you want to cut cap space. They are already very low cap hits and trading them might give you just enough to sign someone...until you realize that somebody has to play on the 4th line and you have to call up someone that makes just as much as those guys do. Plus who the **** would trade for Cote?

3. I thought Knuble's production fell of significantly in the second half of last year and I think he's finally coming to the end of being a 25+ goal guy. For around 2 mill I'd take him back for his PP talents, his veteran leadership, and his work along the boards but he's got "2 year 7 million dollar contract from the Rangers" written all over him. Somebody will throw a higher number than he's worth at him and for that price, they can have his lead skates and hooking penalties.

I do agree that a physical d-man, a faceoff specialist, and a veteran winger are needs, but you have to give up quality to get quality and dumping Jones, Carcillo, Cote, and the albatross that is Daniel Briere's contract to fill those needs just isn't going to happen.

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Old
05-19-2009, 04:20 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
1. If you don't like Briere on the third line then you'd better hope he gets moved up to the top 6 because that is the only place he's going. He's up there with Wade Redden and Chris Drury as one of the most untradeable contracts in the league. Not saying that he's as unproductive as those two, but he has a full NMC so even if you do find someone willing to take on his huge cap hit, he can just veto it.

2. You don't trade guys like Cote and Carcillo if you want to cut cap space. They are already very low cap hits and trading them might give you just enough to sign someone...until you realize that somebody has to play on the 4th line and you have to call up someone that makes just as much as those guys do. Plus who the **** would trade for Cote?

3. I thought Knuble's production fell of significantly in the second half of last year and I think he's finally coming to the end of being a 25+ goal guy. For around 2 mill I'd take him back for his PP talents, his veteran leadership, and his work along the boards but he's got "2 year 7 million dollar contract from the Rangers" written all over him. Somebody will throw a higher number than he's worth at him and for that price, they can have his lead skates and hooking penalties.

I do agree that a physical d-man, a faceoff specialist, and a veteran winger are needs, but you have to give up quality to get quality and dumping Jones, Carcillo, Cote, and the albatross that is Daniel Briere's contract to fill those needs just isn't going to happen.
Just to comment on this. We all said during the season that "The Flyers wont trade small salaries cause it wont make much of a difference to the salary cap". Homer showed us differently by trading smaller salary pieces (Upshall) for that "little bit of cap space". Anything is really possible.

One thing I will say though, which others seem to not get, Jones is not going anywhere (sadly). Stevens and Homer greatly believe that Jones is a solid player, who has potential as a second pairing, and even filling in on the top pairing (and powerplay duties, which he did nothing with)

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:45 PM
  #186
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Is 1970 Bobby Orr available?


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Old
05-19-2009, 06:03 PM
  #187
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Is 1970 Bobby Orr available?

greatest player ever

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Old
05-19-2009, 08:24 PM
  #188
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[QUOTE=dawkins121;19621977]

2. You don't trade guys like Cote and Carcillo if you want to cut cap space. They are already very low cap hits and trading them might give you just enough to sign someone...until you realize that somebody has to play on the 4th line and you have to call up someone that makes just as much as those guys do. Plus who the **** would trade for Cote?

I understand you don't gain major cap sace by trading off minor contracts like Carcillo or Cote what I meant was that either Carcillo or Cote would be a throw in if there was a package deal for someone. Cote and Carcillo a basically the same player except Carcillo is better offensively than Cote. For a team like Edmonton, for example, who needs a gritty forward and a star offensive player, Briere and Carcillo or Cote could be packaged together in some sort of deal.

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