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Old
05-23-2009, 12:15 PM
  #1
BillyShoe1721
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Philadelphia-Ottawa

To Philadelphia-Anton Volchenkov

To Ottawa-Joffrey Lupul, Jacob DeSerres, 1st 09

Why Ottawa does this-It's undeniable, Ottawa is in need of secondary scoring. Lupul would become their 2nd line RW, and I think Ottawa is a place that can work for him. The problem he had was he needs to be the shooter on his line, and playing on the 2nd line likely with Fisher and Foligno, I think that could be a good situation for him. They also get a goaltending prospect who showed some late season promise in Seattle, but is still a long-term project. They also get a 1st round pick, the #22 overall in a very deep draft where they could select a guy like Chris Kreider, or Landon Ferraro.

Why Philadelphia does this-They get a player whose skill set is unmatched in our organization. Many of the problems in Philadelphia stemmed from defense, and the lack of physicality. I think that if we could bring in Volchenkov, it would solve more than one problem. It would make all the pairing better, and he is a guy that can clear the front of the net, and make other players think twice about going into the corner. He could also cover for guys like Carle or Sbisa. Also get a little bit of cap relief.

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:18 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
To Philadelphia-Anton Volchenkov

To Ottawa-Joffrey Lupul, Jacob DeSerres, 1st 09

Why Ottawa does this-It's undeniable, Ottawa is in need of secondary scoring. Lupul would become their 2nd line RW, and I think Ottawa is a place that can work for him. The problem he had was he needs to be the shooter on his line, and playing on the 2nd line likely with Fisher and Foligno, I think that could be a good situation for him. They also get a goaltending prospect who showed some late season promise in Seattle, but is still a long-term project. They also get a 1st round pick, the #22 overall in a very deep draft where they could select a guy like Chris Kreider, or Landon Ferraro.

Why Philadelphia does this-They get a player whose skill set is unmatched in our organization. Many of the problems in Philadelphia stemmed from defense, and the lack of physicality. I think that if we could bring in Volchenkov, it would solve more than one problem. It would make all the pairing better, and he is a guy that can clear the front of the net, and make other players think twice about going into the corner. He could also cover for guys like Carle or Sbisa. Also get a little bit of cap relief.

First of all I would put Lupul on the first line with Heatley and Spezza and move Alfie to the second line for better secondary scoring.

Secondly I'm pretty sure that I would do this deal as a sens fan even though my heart gets ripped out seeing Volchenkov go. Actually it hurts our cap too. I'm not too sure about this one. We don't need any goalie prospects though so maybe if you changed him to a forward prospect we would be better off.

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Old
05-23-2009, 12:50 PM
  #3
McNasty
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It's probably pretty close value wise given the needs of both teams, however if Ottawa were to shop Volchenkov around I think they could do better then Lupul and a 1st.

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Old
05-23-2009, 01:03 PM
  #4
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Ottawa says no as they are giving up the best asset in the deal and not getting enough back.

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Old
05-23-2009, 01:45 PM
  #5
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Wouldn't trade a-train unless its a massive overpayment, which this is not.

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Old
05-23-2009, 01:48 PM
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I'd pass

Sens need to be moving forward money to defense, not the opposite.

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Old
05-23-2009, 02:02 PM
  #7
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Sens say no.

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Old
05-23-2009, 02:12 PM
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Sureves
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For me, from an Ottawa POV, I'd do it. We have 2 other defensive defenseman, it is not necessary to have 3. Phillips and Smith can do the job just fine, and I agree that we are in dire need of secondary wingers in paticular. Done deal for me. (Again, as others have said, it sucks to see Volch go though)

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Old
05-23-2009, 02:21 PM
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Trade would be fair, provided Lupul fits in along side Heatley and Spezza. I don't think you will ever count on him to set up others on another line or make players around him better. He is not just that type of player and his talent would go to waste just like in Philly. But I can see him having a chance to score 40 if he fits in with Spezza playing close to 20 min anight on a 1st line. The 1st and the prospect offsets the risk of the unknown since Volchenkov is the most valuable defenseman in Ottawa and still young at 26 or 27 with a lot of post season experience. On the other hand Ottawa loses a lot of identity and one of the top defensive dman in the NHL, and one of the top shot blockers ever in the NHL who they have drafted and developed.


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Old
05-23-2009, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
For me, from an Ottawa POV, I'd do it. We have 2 other defensive defenseman, it is not necessary to have 3. Phillips and Smith can do the job just fine, and I agree that we are in dire need of secondary wingers in paticular. Done deal for me. (Again, as others have said, it sucks to see Volch go though)
You shouldnt count on Jason Smith, cuz he is almost done right now. Phillips still has years of good hockey left in him but he is 31.

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Old
05-23-2009, 02:32 PM
  #11
Sureves
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You shouldnt count on Jason Smith, cuz he is almost done right now. Phillips still has years of good hockey left in him but he is 31.
You are right, Smith has seen better days and I probably shouldn't include him. But even so, 1 purely defensive defenseman in phillips is enough.

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Old
05-23-2009, 02:36 PM
  #12
trentmccleary
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I wouldn't trade Jason Smith for Joffrey Lupul's contract and I want Smith gone in the worst way. No thanks.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:26 PM
  #13
mercury
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I wouldn't trade Jason Smith for Joffrey Lupul's contract and I want Smith gone in the worst way. No thanks.
And the Flyers wouldn't trade Lupul for Smith, either, so that works out nicely.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:33 PM
  #14
Garbage Goal
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God I get sick of people ****ting all over Lupul and Briere because of their contracts.

I think the value is fair aside from the extra bit of salary that OTT takes on, but OTT wouldn't do it I think. As a Flyers fan I would do this under the assumption that we could extend Volchenkov's contract or be able to re-sign him after next year. Otherwise, no.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:45 PM
  #15
Dr Quincy
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God I get sick of people ****ting all over Lupul and Briere because of their contracts.
Sorry, but that is the reality of the salary cap world. A player's value to a team is made up of not only his play on the ice, but also his contract. Lupul's contract hinder's a team from adding better players at other positions. That would be fine if Lupul was better than he is, but he's not.

The fact that he and Jones appear in EVERY SINGLE Flyers offer on this board suggests that your fellow Flyers fans know that his contract is untenable for them, and it will end up being the same for any team he goes to. He takes up too much space relative to what he brings to a team.

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05-23-2009, 03:47 PM
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mercury
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Sorry, but that is the reality of the salary cap world. A player's value to a team is made up of not only his play on the ice, but also his contract. Lupul's contract hinder's a team from adding better players at other positions. That would be fine if Lupul was better than he is, but he's not.

The fact that he and Jones appear in EVERY SINGLE Flyers offer on this board suggests that your fellow Flyers fans know that his contract is untenable for them, and it will end up being the same for any team he goes to. He takes up too much space relative to what he brings to a team.
Lupul has value in some specific cases. If another team really needs a top-6 winger, they'd give up something for him. It may not be much, though. Briere would be silly to trade, because he'd never get fair value for being a PPG forward, due to the length of his contract.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:50 PM
  #17
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I can't see Ottawa trading a defenseman away to get that secondary scoring. They can begin to address it in the draft with a player like Nazem Kadri, Scott Glennie, Jacob Josefson or Jordan Schroeder and they can sign a player once free agency starts and not risk losing anything. I also highly doubt Ottawa trades a shutdown defenseman to an Eastern Conference opponent, especially one that could cause them problems in the playoffs or just making it there.

Not bad value though, but I think no from Ottawa's perspective.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:53 PM
  #18
The Pucks
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
God I get sick of people ****ting all over Lupul and Briere because of their contracts.
Have you ever taken into consideration the fact that most fans of other teams feel their contracts are a problem, and some fans from your own team feel the same way that maybe, just maybe their contracts are problems?

The lengths are every bit to blame as well as the salary. Maybe the market will change, maybe the revenues will rise instead of fall, maybe the cap goes up, but those are all unlikely for the next few years.

I think if you gave Holmgren a couple of beers and asked him off the record he would tell you he felt the cap would continue to rise year in and year our and thats why he went with the terms he did.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:53 PM
  #19
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As an Ottawa fan, I like the value. Lupul fills a need, DeSerres hopefully would give us a solution in goal in Bingo and another 1st is always nice. But my concern is us commiting more money to our forward group, like Fuhr pointed out. If you guys could take one of Jason Smith or Chris Kelly off our hands for an additional pick then I would be happy. It would give us a little more cap flexability come FA period to tweak our D.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:56 PM
  #20
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Have you ever taken into consideration the fact that most fans of other teams feel their contracts are a problem, and some fans from your own team feel the same way that maybe, just maybe their contracts are problems?

The lengths are every bit to blame as well as the salary. Maybe the market will change, maybe the revenues will rise instead of fall, maybe the cap goes up, but those are all unlikely for the next few years.

I think if you gave Holmgren a couple of beers and asked him off the record he would tell you he felt the cap would continue to rise year in and year our and thats why he went with the terms he did.
Briere's contract may be a little too long, but it is completely appropriate for a player of his caliber. Lupul got his raise after a good season, and he followed it up by a mediocre one. That was too much/too soon. Randy Jones is easily the most overpaid Flyer, though.

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Old
05-23-2009, 03:57 PM
  #21
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
As an Ottawa fan, I like the value. Lupul fills a need, DeSerres hopefully would give us a solution in goal in Bingo and another 1st is always nice. But my concern is us commiting more money to our forward group, like Fuhr pointed out. If you guys could take one of Jason Smith or Chris Kelly off our hands for an additional pick then I would be happy. It would give us a little more cap flexability come FA period to tweak our D.

No can do on taking more salary. I think that a major point of the deal was that we'd be ditching salary. We're looking to disappear a Randy Jones, not take on a Jason Smith.

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Old
05-23-2009, 04:03 PM
  #22
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Not a terrible trade, but I'd say no.

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