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Old
05-23-2009, 05:13 PM
  #26
txomisc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chayos View Post
This is a case where he is letting his homer instincts clash with reality.

If a number one were to come available such as Weber, Jaybo or Phaneuf then Ott could be part of the package, but he would not be the most valuable part.
Yeah to get one of those guys Ott would have to be the addition to a piece such as Eriksson or Neal, perhaps even more.

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05-23-2009, 05:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
How in the hell can you get a legit number one for a agitating winger? If dallas is looking to get that much for a guy like Ott they sure as hell arent going to find a trading partner.
It's called a package. You think if Dallas offers up Ott and Daley for the rights to Bouwmeester that Florida won't do it?

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Old
05-23-2009, 05:28 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
It's called a package. You think if Dallas offers up Ott and Daley for the rights to Bouwmeester that Florida won't do it?
For the rights to sign a soon to be UFA whos all but indicated hes going elsewhere? Hell yeah they would be stupid not to. Really not comparable situations IMO

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Old
05-23-2009, 05:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
I believe he is right now, but at the end of the day they're similar players and Niskanen hasn't been paid yet.
It's just confusing when your initial post says Gilbert is a #3, and he's no better than guys like Niskanen and Daley.
And now your are saying that you believe that Gilbert is better?

I guess that you weren't ever referring to who was the better hockey player (even though that's what your initial post seemed to indicate), but you were instead saying that you'd rather have a player like Niskanen because he is younger is paid less, even though he is not as good.

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Old
05-23-2009, 05:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I can't believe it hasn't been said yet but the Oilers and their fans would never take on a player that play's a pest role and throws questionable hits with bad intentions.

The Oilers are above that.
yeah the oilers have never had dirty players on their team!

remember Raffi Torres? he was like a mexican version of Steve Ott (except nowhere near as good)

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Old
05-23-2009, 05:43 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
yeah the oilers have never had dirty players on their team!

remember Raffi Torres? he was like a mexican version of Steve Ott (except nowhere near as good)
Has Ott ever been close to scoring 27 goals?

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Old
05-23-2009, 05:46 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
yeah the oilers have never had dirty players on their team!

remember Raffi Torres? he was like a mexican version of Steve Ott (except nowhere near as good)
I assumed that was sarcasm, lol.

And I'd make this deal; never been a huge fan of Ott, and Gilbert would be a more than welcome addition to the blueline, thriving where Sydor repeatedly faltered.

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Old
05-23-2009, 05:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
It's just confusing when your initial post says Gilbert is a #3, and he's no better than guys like Niskanen and Daley.
And now your are saying that you believe that Gilbert is better?

I guess that you weren't ever referring to who was the better hockey player (even though that's what your initial post seemed to indicate), but you were instead saying that you'd rather have a player like Niskanen because he is younger is paid less, even though he is not as good.
No, again, what I'm saying is the difference is negligible. Gilbert is not a step above Niskanen, and adding him to Dallas does not improve the team greatly (if at all).

So yes, he's no better than Niskanen and Daley. I stick to that. Niskanen is only 22 years old, and will continue to improve. Adding Gilbert to the equation is most likely going to hurt Dallas in that it will make it harder for them to re-sign Niskanen next offseason.

The whole trade boils down to this: Dallas has several good defenseman age 25 and under (Daley, Grossman, Niskanen, Vishnevskiy), so this trade makes no sense to do. Unless they were trading for a defenseman who's a head and shoulder better than those players, which I've stated I believe Gilbert is not, there's no reason to add a defenseman at all because there's a log jam there as it is.

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Old
05-23-2009, 05:52 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
For the rights to sign a soon to be UFA whos all but indicated hes going elsewhere? Hell yeah they would be stupid not to. Really not comparable situations IMO
Yeah, elsewhere than Florida, not Dallas. It wouldn't be blind mans bluff; Dallas, or any team, will likely be allowed to talk to Bouwmeester to see if he'll sign with them (ala, Mats Sundin last year) before a trade went down.

So yes, it is quite comparable because I'm talking about a real life possible scenario.

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Old
05-23-2009, 06:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
No, again, what I'm saying is the difference is negligible. Gilbert is not a step above Niskanen, and adding him to Dallas does not improve the team greatly (if at all).

So yes, he's no better than Niskanen and Daley. I stick to that. Niskanen is only 22 years old, and will continue to improve. Adding Gilbert to the equation is most likely going to hurt Dallas in that it will make it harder for them to re-sign Niskanen next offseason.

The whole trade boils down to this: Dallas has several good defenseman age 25 and under (Daley, Grossman, Niskanen, Vishnevskiy), so this trade makes no sense to do. Unless they were trading for a defenseman who's a head and shoulder better than those players, which I've stated I believe Gilbert is not, there's no reason to add a defenseman at all because there's a log jam there as it is.
What are you saying no to?

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Old
05-23-2009, 06:58 PM
  #36
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Jackson would be all over this deal and Tambellini is going to want more than just Ott. Also, there's Gilbert's cap hit of 4.0 mil. so in order for this to take place Dallas in going to have to dump more salary to Edmonton. Yet, Dallas doesn't really have much salary dump they want to get rid of (Richards 7.8 mil is not an issue.)

So, I REALLY doubt this trade happens. If Ott were to get involved in a trade he'd be a part of some package for a #1 D-man along with maybe Eriksson/Neal (yes, there is a logjam at the LW position one of the Stars future left wingers, Ott, Neal, Eriksson, Benn is bound to end up somewhere else if the Stars are unable to develop a #1 D-Man.)

As for who the better defensman is. The debate is pointless. Niskanen is 22, had a career year, and is only going to get better if he can get stronger. Gilbert is 26, had a career year, and is going to put up more numbers. I'm pretty sure 10 years from now their numbers will almost be identical.

I'd be more interested in Grebeshkov than Gilbert. Don't know if Oilers fans would be happy with that though.

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Old
05-23-2009, 07:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherith cutestory View Post
No, he's not. I know Oiler fans love this guy, but one good season does not make you a top-pairing D.
2 good seasons.

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Old
05-23-2009, 08:11 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
What are you saying no to?
"I guess that you weren't ever referring to who was the better hockey player (even though that's what your initial post seemed to indicate), but you were instead saying that you'd rather have a player like Niskanen because he is younger is paid less, even though he is not as good."

Like I said, I think both players are around the same level. If you have a team with Gilbert or Niskanen as your #3, you're likely going to get the same result.

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Old
05-23-2009, 09:23 PM
  #39
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What I don't understand is if they OP thinks Gilbert is a #1 defender then why in the world would he move him for a 3rd line agitator?

Talk about horrible asset managament

Gilbert is..

- Tied for 17th most points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 9th most assists in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 6th most even strength points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 32nd most block shots in the league for defensemen

Gilbert for Ott laughable from Edmonton's standpoint .

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Old
05-23-2009, 09:38 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
What I don't understand is if they OP thinks Gilbert is a #1 defender then why in the world would he move him for a 3rd line agitator?

Talk about horrible asset managament

Gilbert is..

- Tied for 17th most points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 9th most assists in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 6th most even strength points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 32nd most block shots in the league for defensemen

Gilbert for Ott laughable from Edmonton's standpoint .
Now do Ott's.

Me backing up Gilbert being a top pairing D had nothing to do with the proposal.

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Old
05-23-2009, 10:19 PM
  #41
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The jury is still out on Gilbert? But Ott could fetch a #1 defenseman?
Ott isn't enough of an upgrade over Moreau on the 3rd to warrant losing Gilbert.

Plus I don't want anything to do with Steve Ott.

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Old
05-23-2009, 10:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
The jury is still out on Gilbert? But Ott could fetch a #1 defenseman?
Ott isn't enough of an upgrade over Moreau on the 3rd to warrant losing Gilbert.

Plus I don't want anything to do with Steve Ott.
I would take Ott over Moreau anyday. But I know you are right, Edmonton probably does overpay for Ott, I just think he is the exact player Edmonton needs.

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Old
05-23-2009, 10:57 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
"I guess that you weren't ever referring to who was the better hockey player (even though that's what your initial post seemed to indicate), but you were instead saying that you'd rather have a player like Niskanen because he is younger is paid less, even though he is not as good."

Like I said, I think both players are around the same level. If you have a team with Gilbert or Niskanen as your #3, you're likely going to get the same result.
No, you did not say that both players were around the same level!

Here is what was said:


This is what I posted:
I guess that is why we disagree, because I believe that Gilbert is better than Niskanen.

And this is what you replied with:
I believe he is right now, but at the end of the day they're similar players and Niskanen hasn't been paid yet.

Quit pretending that you said something that you didn't! You were saying exactly what I said you were in the post that you quoted from me. "I guess that you weren't ever referring to who was the better hockey player (even though that's what your initial post seemed to indicate), but you were instead saying that you'd rather have a player like Niskanen because he is younger is paid less, even though he is not as good."

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Old
05-23-2009, 11:01 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
I would take Ott over Moreau anyday. But I know you are right, Edmonton probably does overpay for Ott, I just think he is the exact player Edmonton needs.
I'm not sure Ott is what the Oilers need.

What would it take to get Grebeshkov?

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Old
05-23-2009, 11:15 PM
  #45
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaner Tazer View Post
I'm not sure Ott is what the Oilers need.

What would it take to get Grebeshkov?
I dont really think Grebeshkov is available, Edmonton is actually trying to/have already signed him.

I think Loui Errikson would look nice beside Hemsky

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Old
05-23-2009, 11:24 PM
  #46
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I thought the Oilers want grit and nastiness.

Eriksson is valued way too much by Stars fans and Brad Richards would be pretty ticked if he got traded.

I think Loui is pretty untouchable for now. Unless he becomes the center piece in a package for a #1 D-Man.

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Old
05-23-2009, 11:42 PM
  #47
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaner Tazer View Post
I thought the Oilers want grit and nastiness.

Eriksson is valued way too much by Stars fans and Brad Richards would be pretty ticked if he got traded.

I think Loui is pretty untouchable for now. Unless he becomes the center piece in a package for a #1 D-Man.
We also need a goal scoring top line LW. Errikson and Hemsky just seem like the perfect combo IMO, I would be willing to give anyone but Gagner and Hemsky for him. Not sure about anyone else....

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Old
05-24-2009, 12:23 AM
  #48
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I'm not saying I'd deal Eriksson. I'd rather deal Neal than him honestly but as far as Edmonton proposals go I wouldn't settle more much less than this. Though the names of some of the players could change.

To Edmonton: Eriksson

To Dallas: Grebeshkov, Petry, Edmonton's 1st.

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Old
05-24-2009, 02:30 AM
  #49
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please refrain from personal insults in defense of your position or in opposition to another poster's position. You can debate the merits of a post all you want and pick apart someone's arguments, assertions, or facts, but you cannot start attacking that person.

If you feel that you cannot conduct yourself maturely and respectfully within a thread, the best advice is simply to stay out of it.

If you ignore this warning, you can also expect to be dealt with by moderators, as inappropriate conduct is not tolerated.

Thank you.

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Old
05-24-2009, 02:39 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chayos View Post
This is a case where he is letting his homer instincts clash with reality.

If a number one were to come available such as Weber, Jaybo or Phaneuf then Ott could be part of the package, but he would not be the most valuable part.
Me = not Dallas fan.

I also didn't say Ott would be the most valuable part. All I said is that they were going to trade Ott for a defenseman, which they wouldn't because they have too many already, it would be for a legit #1.

Not too many players had more than 120+ PIMs and 45+ points. In fact, two: Ott and Backes. So he's got alot of value, despite some of the comments in this thread.

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