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Mess - Mid Term 2009 Entry Draft Rankings

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Old
05-03-2009, 02:10 PM
  #276
bobermay
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Mess, what are your thoughts on Bjorn Krupp, Brayden McNabb, and Seth Helgeson???

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05-03-2009, 11:48 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Well I know that the draft cut-off date is Sept 15th current year for a player to turn 18 in order to be eligible, and if we apply this rule then Engelage is draft eligible.

Engelage has a late 1988 birthdate .(October 28, 1988) ..

So that means he was not draft eligible with the rest of the 1988 born draft class.. Which means that he was first draft eligible with the 1989 born players and made 2007 (1989 born) his first draft, 2008 (1990 born) his second draft and that would make 2009 his 3rd time draft eligible year.. Its my understanding that a player needs to pass through 3 entry drafts before he is officially ruled a UFA. As far a draft age goes its my interpretation he is listed at age 20 and would be eligible to be taken. Numerous players in the past have been passed over a couple of times and taken the 3rd entry draft and unsigned previous drafted players are re-entry players age permitting, but it most often occurs with Euros.

In the case of goalie Daniel Spence your example given his birthdate is Born Jan 17,1988 because his 18th birthday came before Sept 15th cutoff... He was therefore passed over in 2006 (1988 born), 2007 (1989), and 2008 draft (1990 born) and 3 strikes and your out.. Engelage only has 2 strikes against him and that is the difference here. IMO. Spence is age 21 now, because of his late birthday Engelage is only 20 currently despite both having 1988 birth years.

Not that I think he will get drafted, but some people have mentioned him as a potential signing post draft for the Marlies and I just included him for reference point more then anything.

Alright, i agree i think Engelade will get an ATO at the very least.. but i don't think birthdates factor in because like for example this year i believe the eligibility is September 15th 1991-January 1st 1989.. because from waht i heard it's basically a "sorry about your luck" kind of deal. but with euro's i know they can get anyone Jan/1/87 born this year and i think the Jan/1 deadline applies to NA two years younger

Not trying to be negative or anything just throwing what i am confident the rule is. I gotta say you've done an amazing job with this and i hope it's a yearly thing.. reading this is better than what you can get from some scouting services, if you need any info on any specific OHL player i have about a dozen pages of scouting notes from this season that maybe you can use as you feel appropriate.

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05-04-2009, 04:33 PM
  #278
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Mess what can you tell me about Brett Ponich, 6'7 defensemen from Portland of the whl

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05-04-2009, 06:28 PM
  #279
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Some of my current favourites for our 2nd round selections in no particular order yet are.

Chris Brown - Rugged Center with the U-18 USNDP
Tomas Tatar - Slovakian sparkplug that sent a real message at the WJC.
Ryan O'Reilly - Erie Otters 2-way center
Charles-Olivier Roussel - Dynamic and offensively talented defenseman - (Shawinigan, QMJHL)
Alex Chiasson - 6-4/180 big gifted Right Wing - (Des Moines, USHL)
Matthew Hackett - Goalie - (Plymouth Whalers, OHL)
Carl Klingberg - big, smooth skating Left Winger - (Frolunda Jr., Sweden)
Mikko Koskinen - 6'-7" Goalie - (Blues, Finland)
Dylan Olsen - hard hitting, hard shooting defenseman - (Camrose, AJHL)
Ben Hanowski - LW/RW - Highest scoring US HS Minnesota player in history - (Little Falls, USHS-MIN). Who put up 57 goals, 53 assists and 110 points in only 25 games.
Ben Hanowski
<--- Says 31 GP --- 73 goals and 62 assists

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05-04-2009, 06:39 PM
  #280
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off Mess's list I'd be pretty happy if we got any of : Tatar, Charles-Oliver Roussel, Matthew Hackett, Carl Klingberg, or Ben Hanowski.

Nice video btw Hntrmn.
Hanowski I think is 6'3 powerfoward, prob early 2nd round. Needs to be better defensively but lethal offensively, I didn't know the previous record holder was pohl. I think he got 16 points in 3 playoff games? I don't know if thats right or now.

Between Hanowski, Klingberg or Hackett, I'd prob be most pleased, hopefully some are around when we pick.

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05-05-2009, 05:39 PM
  #281
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Hey Mess.. any info on Kenny Ryan a power forward framed player for the USA-18 program and/or Thomas Larkin a big 6'5" 206 US High School kid from the UK?

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05-16-2009, 11:51 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Ry-Dogg View Post
I gotta say you've done an amazing job with this and i hope it's a yearly thing.. reading this is better than what you can get from some scouting services, if you need any info on any specific OHL player i have about a dozen pages of scouting notes from this season that maybe you can use as you feel appropriate.
Hey Ry-Dogg

I would like to get your opinion and any scouting report info you have on these 3 OHL players ..





None of these 3 players appear on Central Scoutings Final ranking yet I have all 3 on my list .. Ottawa Dman Zanetti was #139 at the mid-term and fell off the list in the Final.. Something must have happened in the second part of the season that I missed that you may know of that saw him drop that far ..

The two Ice Dogs while small in stature and only 5-9 both have some talent.. Agozzino is a creative little guy and DeSousa as well as talented is a real feisty, gritty character as well. There are many players on CSS Final rankings that are as small or smaller and don't have the skill set these two do, so I an surprised to see them unranked. I think both have a chance of being drafted and I am almost willing to bet that Chris DeSousa is almost a gurantee to be taken, considering his style of play.

Would love to hear your opinion on them and what you think might happen.




PS. Little young import Swede William Wallen of St. Michael's Majors that recovered from a brain aneurysm this season and returned to action in OHL. How was his play when he returned ? I thought he looked very good in the U-18 tournament and among the more dangerous Swedes and that he looked fully recovered and was happy to see him in action again.He is a small but really talented player, and you can't help but cheer him on.

What are thoughts on him and his draft chances this season all things considered?.

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05-16-2009, 02:01 PM
  #283
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The players I would like to come to the leafs from this draft(in an ideal world) would be as follows Brayden Schenn,Toni Rajala,Brayden McNabb and either Koskinen or Lehner.In the event of Rajala the only thing that worries me about him is his size,either way there is alot of potential in this draft and I'm not talking only the 1st Round

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05-17-2009, 05:26 AM
  #284
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Also. I was watching the Royal Bank cup. Do you have any insight on the defencemen with the last name Bigos?
Your talking about this guy




I have seen him also in the RBC Cup and Vernon is just up the road from Kelowna and the Vernon Vipers play the other tier II team the Westside Warriors which also play out of Kelowna, so I get to watch the BCHL players throughout the season.

So I have seen him a few times this season .. Big 6-5 230 defender that has a real mean streak and fairly dominant in the game. He also sees PP time and a big factor on the Pk..

The key to Bigos is that he was born May 12, 1989 that means he is currently 20 years old and thus more mature then a lot of the other players your seeing him play against .. He was already passed over in 2 drafts the 2007 and 2008 and this is 3rd and last chance this season.

Bigos is currently ranked #169 by Central Scouting Final ranking and was unrated at the mid term point. Bigos had a real strong 2nd half to his season and the fact that Vernon Vipers were the BCHL champs and defeated the AJHL champs in the Royal Cup to advance to the RBC Cup representing the West as the Teir II Junior A team.

Bigos capped a tremendous year with his highlight reel goal in Vernon's RBC Cup-clinching win over the Humboldt Broncos in the Championship game. Earlier, he was recognized as the tournament's Most Valuable Player and Best Defensive Player, and he finished the event ranked second in points with nine in six games. So he has had a lot of positive exposure as a result of his teams success and will likely be drafted in the mid to later rounds due to his age, but NHL loves 6-5 230 dmen that can skate and play the game physically.

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05-17-2009, 09:49 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Slimcere View Post
The players I would like to come to the leafs from this draft(in an ideal world) would be as follows Brayden Schenn,Toni Rajala,Brayden McNabb and either Koskinen or Lehner.In the event of Rajala the only thing that worries me about him is his size,either way there is alot of potential in this draft and I'm not talking only the 1st Round
I agree, there is a ton of talent in the 2nd round as well.

I just dont see Rajala falling to us in the second. Then again if Burke trades down from 7 too 9th, 10th or 11th we could pick up another top 45 pick and Rajala (might) fall that far.

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05-17-2009, 01:57 PM
  #286
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I agree, there is a ton of talent in the 2nd round as well.

I just dont see Rajala falling to us in the second. Then again if Burke trades down from 7 too 9th, 10th or 11th we could pick up another top 45 pick and Rajala (might) fall that far.
But would Burke take a smaller, Finnish forward with a pick? (say that he was available at our second round pick)

I honestly don't know. I know Burke does not do all the scouting, and like all GMs relies on his scouting staff, but he has the final word, especially in the first couple rounds. I love what I saw in Rajala's game at the U18s, but I'm not sure that Burke scoops him up if he has the chance.

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05-17-2009, 11:30 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Hey Ry-Dogg

I would like to get your opinion and any scouting report info you have on these 3 OHL players ..





None of these 3 players appear on Central Scoutings Final ranking yet I have all 3 on my list .. Ottawa Dman Zanetti was #139 at the mid-term and fell off the list in the Final.. Something must have happened in the second part of the season that I missed that you may know of that saw him drop that far ..

The two Ice Dogs while small in stature and only 5-9 both have some talent.. Agozzino is a creative little guy and DeSousa as well as talented is a real feisty, gritty character as well. There are many players on CSS Final rankings that are as small or smaller and don't have the skill set these two do, so I an surprised to see them unranked. I think both have a chance of being drafted and I am almost willing to bet that Chris DeSousa is almost a gurantee to be taken, considering his style of play.

Would love to hear your opinion on them and what you think might happen.




PS. Little young import Swede William Wallen of St. Michael's Majors that recovered from a brain aneurysm this season and returned to action in OHL. How was his play when he returned ? I thought he looked very good in the U-18 tournament and among the more dangerous Swedes and that he looked fully recovered and was happy to see him in action again.He is a small but really talented player, and you can't help but cheer him on.

What are thoughts on him and his draft chances this season all things considered?.
Well i'm situatied in the Western Conference so I was only able to see Niagara, Mississauga and Ottawa once live, but i can probably help you out alittle with these..

Marc Zanetti - Zanetti was a guy i was looking out for when Ottawa came to town, but I was alittle disappointed. The kid can throw his body fairly well, but he seems to take a shift or two at a time off. The first game was on TV and he was invisible. The second game he came out strong with a couple hits, and played hard, his skating looked decent, nothing special but nothing that would hinder him. He scored a goal on the powerplay, and I was pretty intrigued with him, but he disappeared the last 40 minutes of the game. From what I've been told he takes very undisciplined penalties at times, so if scouts saw one or two of his lazy games, they may have written him off. He doesn't have the skills to be an offensive player at the next level, although he has the physical intangibles to play a defensive and physical game at the next level, but basically what must have made him drop is his lack of willingness to compete some nights, as well as taking stupid penalties at bad times. He could be a wild card for this draft, because if he can come out next year and play hard the whole season he could be a fairly valuable defensive defenceman prospect. IMO he has about a 33% chance of someone taking him in the final two rounds.

Andrew Agozzino - I saw him play live in person, and I have a friend who lives in the Niagara area and i was told to watch out for him, and he was dead on. This kid has so much talent I couldn't believe how fast he was. He put a few shots on net and i was impressed with his ability to shoot the puck quickly and accurately. Unfortunately it looked like a tennis match, and the game ended 1-0, but Agozzino definitely showed flashes of serious offensive potential, and I am honestly at a loss for why this kid isn't ranked. I could see a team like St. Louis who's already obviously going to have a scout there keeping an eye on Pietrangelo and get a good look at Agozzino and what he could bring tot he table much like the Islanders were able to do with Martin/DiBenedetto while watching Katic. Despite not being ranked I have a hard time not seeing him drafted by the end of the 5th round, and would be very surprised to see him go undrafted. My friend in Niagara said he basically comes out flying every shift, has alot of speed and never quits, all in all Agozzino should be picked this year.

Chris DeSousa - DeSousa is a guy who's known for his goalscoring. I saw him play twice, once on tv and once in person, over the 6 periods of hockey there were 4 goals in total, 2 were by Niagara, and 1 was by DeSousa on the powerplay banged the puck home from the front of the net. DeSousa however from what I saw abandoned his defensive opportunites a couple times, and one of those times resulted in the only goal of the game, when I saw him in person. Good speed, not as good as Agozzino that I saw, but drives harder to the net than Agozzino in the games I was able to see. Obviously with 33 goals this season he's got a knack for putting the puck in the net. However the final 16 games of the season (4 regular season, 12 playoffs) He only scored 3 goals. Two of them came in the same game. So depending on how you look at it, that shows how good he was over the course of the season, but also is concerning that someone who can score that much shut it down when the games mattered the most. From what i've been told from a friend in Niagara he's a fairly complete player, who's willing to fight and go into the corners, and do what's needed to win. Opinions are pretty spread out on him at this point in time, personally i wouldn't draft him this year, and hope he picks his game up and give him a good look next year, but some really like him and think he belongs in the rankings and to be picked on draft day. So to me appears to be a bubble pick at this point in time.

Willam Wallen - Wallen has a great skill set, unfortunately he was still on the road to recovery when I saw Mississauga in person, but from what I've heard the kid is great at controlling the puck and making it do what he wants. He is a risky pick considering what he has been through this year. He's a real boom or bust cause if he is in fact healthy, and the team is willing to let him develop he could turn into a very talented NHL player. Wallen was pretty balanced with his stats over the season, but didn't produce quite to his potential on the playoffs. A lot of talk in the second round was about Mississauga who pushed Brampton to 6 games and nearly upset them. Brampton came out with a 2-0 series lead, and Mississauga tied it up at 2-2 before Brampton won the final 2. If Mississauga had prevailed it would have largely been because of Wallen who scored a huge overtime goal that tied the series and nearly swung the momentum in the Majors favor. Wallen basically is a boom or bust pick, you really couldn't blame a team for using a 6th or 7th on him. The odds aren't great that he'll turn into a good NHLer but the potential skill set is there, but the Brain Aneurysm he suffered as well as his size may be too much to overcome. Wallen is a pretty big wild card this year. His skating needs alot of improvement, but that could be inaccurate considering he was starting the season when everyone was already into the game for a few months. The best course of action would be to see how he does over a full season, but if a team liked what they saw enough he could be taken late in this year's draft.

Hope that helps you out.

Edit: Also here is the actual scouting report i have on Agozzino...

Andrew Agozzino - LW - YOB: 1991 - 59 - 188lbs.
NHL: Eligible in 2009
Report: Feb/6/09: Im very surprised Agozzino isnt rated by CSB this kid may be small but hes got a lot of speed.. has a laser of a shot with quick release.. It was hard to really gauge how good this guy really is offensively in a 1-0 win but he definitely looks like a player who could be of interest in a team come draft day.. Defensive skills were adequate, but good for a smaller player known more as an offensive leader. (Agozzino had 2 PIM)


Last edited by Default101: 05-17-2009 at 11:38 PM.
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05-18-2009, 12:37 AM
  #288
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Well i'm situatied in the Western Conference so I was only able to see Niagara, Mississauga and Ottawa once live, but i can probably help you out alittle with these..

Marc Zanetti - Zanetti was a guy i was looking out for when Ottawa came to town, but I was alittle disappointed. The kid can throw his body fairly well, but he seems to take a shift or two at a time off. The first game was on TV and he was invisible. The second game he came out strong with a couple hits, and played hard, his skating looked decent, nothing special but nothing that would hinder him. He scored a goal on the powerplay, and I was pretty intrigued with him, but he disappeared the last 40 minutes of the game. From what I've been told he takes very undisciplined penalties at times, so if scouts saw one or two of his lazy games, they may have written him off. He doesn't have the skills to be an offensive player at the next level, although he has the physical intangibles to play a defensive and physical game at the next level, but basically what must have made him drop is his lack of willingness to compete some nights, as well as taking stupid penalties at bad times. He could be a wild card for this draft, because if he can come out next year and play hard the whole season he could be a fairly valuable defensive defenceman prospect. IMO he has about a 33% chance of someone taking him in the final two rounds.

Andrew Agozzino - I saw him play live in person, and I have a friend who lives in the Niagara area and i was told to watch out for him, and he was dead on. This kid has so much talent I couldn't believe how fast he was. He put a few shots on net and i was impressed with his ability to shoot the puck quickly and accurately. Unfortunately it looked like a tennis match, and the game ended 1-0, but Agozzino definitely showed flashes of serious offensive potential, and I am honestly at a loss for why this kid isn't ranked. I could see a team like St. Louis who's already obviously going to have a scout there keeping an eye on Pietrangelo and get a good look at Agozzino and what he could bring tot he table much like the Islanders were able to do with Martin/DiBenedetto while watching Katic. Despite not being ranked I have a hard time not seeing him drafted by the end of the 5th round, and would be very surprised to see him go undrafted. My friend in Niagara said he basically comes out flying every shift, has alot of speed and never quits, all in all Agozzino should be picked this year.

Chris DeSousa - DeSousa is a guy who's known for his goalscoring. I saw him play twice, once on tv and once in person, over the 6 periods of hockey there were 4 goals in total, 2 were by Niagara, and 1 was by DeSousa on the powerplay banged the puck home from the front of the net. DeSousa however from what I saw abandoned his defensive opportunites a couple times, and one of those times resulted in the only goal of the game, when I saw him in person. Good speed, not as good as Agozzino that I saw, but drives harder to the net than Agozzino in the games I was able to see. Obviously with 33 goals this season he's got a knack for putting the puck in the net. However the final 16 games of the season (4 regular season, 12 playoffs) He only scored 3 goals. Two of them came in the same game. So depending on how you look at it, that shows how good he was over the course of the season, but also is concerning that someone who can score that much shut it down when the games mattered the most. From what i've been told from a friend in Niagara he's a fairly complete player, who's willing to fight and go into the corners, and do what's needed to win. Opinions are pretty spread out on him at this point in time, personally i wouldn't draft him this year, and hope he picks his game up and give him a good look next year, but some really like him and think he belongs in the rankings and to be picked on draft day. So to me appears to be a bubble pick at this point in time.

Willam Wallen - Wallen has a great skill set, unfortunately he was still on the road to recovery when I saw Mississauga in person, but from what I've heard the kid is great at controlling the puck and making it do what he wants. He is a risky pick considering what he has been through this year. He's a real boom or bust cause if he is in fact healthy, and the team is willing to let him develop he could turn into a very talented NHL player. Wallen was pretty balanced with his stats over the season, but didn't produce quite to his potential on the playoffs. A lot of talk in the second round was about Mississauga who pushed Brampton to 6 games and nearly upset them. Brampton came out with a 2-0 series lead, and Mississauga tied it up at 2-2 before Brampton won the final 2. If Mississauga had prevailed it would have largely been because of Wallen who scored a huge overtime goal that tied the series and nearly swung the momentum in the Majors favor. Wallen basically is a boom or bust pick, you really couldn't blame a team for using a 6th or 7th on him. The odds aren't great that he'll turn into a good NHLer but the potential skill set is there, but the Brain Aneurysm he suffered as well as his size may be too much to overcome. Wallen is a pretty big wild card this year. His skating needs alot of improvement, but that could be inaccurate considering he was starting the season when everyone was already into the game for a few months. The best course of action would be to see how he does over a full season, but if a team liked what they saw enough he could be taken late in this year's draft.

Hope that helps you out.

Edit: Also here is the actual scouting report i have on Agozzino...

Andrew Agozzino - LW - YOB: 1991 - 59 - 188lbs.
NHL: Eligible in 2009
Report: Feb/6/09: Im very surprised Agozzino isnt rated by CSB this kid may be small but hes got a lot of speed.. has a laser of a shot with quick release.. It was hard to really gauge how good this guy really is offensively in a 1-0 win but he definitely looks like a player who could be of interest in a team come draft day.. Defensive skills were adequate, but good for a smaller player known more as an offensive leader. (Agozzino had 2 PIM)
Thank you very much for the excellent report on these players ..

On many of your points we agree completely as my notes also have similar accounts when seeing them play..

Wallen was already off with his illness before I got a chance and my best impression of him comes from his U-18 performance post illness, and didn't have anything as an OHLer.

If there are two things I have learned about smaller players in the past, is that if your undersized you had better be really fast to compensate or be gritty agitator and fearless to get involved .. Agozzino was the speedy example and DeSousa the gritty one of players that had what it seemed would compensate for lack of size. Now I agree its still going to be an uphill battle for either to overcome the lack of stature at the pro level, but I was surprised that Central Scouting didn't even rank them on their list.

Case in point say take Jordan Mayer the center of Mississauga of OHL . .He is only 5-9 162 pounds and had 22 goals 44 points this season.. When watching him I didn't really see what Central scouting did that would see him ranked (#176 final but #131 Mid Term), and considered that much better a prospect then the Niagara players. No question he has offensive skills, but came across as a timid more perimeter player from the few time I watched him, which was kind of a red flag to me. When I watched the USA U-18 team and focused on little AJ Trias 5-7 /160 .. He reminded me of a small speed, skilled player not unlike Agozzino and noticed he was on Central Scouting final ranking at #171.

Thanks again for your input and feel free to post any other stuff on OHL players that you really like or feel might be OHL sleepers.

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05-18-2009, 03:36 PM
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I agree for i'd say every 10 5'9 or so gritty players 4 will end up wtih NHL careers... i'd say it's more like 2.5 for every 10 for scorers that size, but the ones that do make it are very effective, I have alot of confidence in Agozzino, alittle less in DeSousa, but both definitely could be NHLers. Unfortunately you find out how alot of these guys are going to actually do when their role is increased at the OHL level which won't happen untill after they're eligible for their first draft. (Much like Matt Martin for example who was just an enforcer/energy guy untill a top 6 spot opened up when he was 18 and he lit up with 60 goals in 2 seasons). I didn't see much of Wallen, but his puck skills are undeniable and if his speed is a product of not being able to work out much, if he puts in a big summer he could turn out the best of the 4. Aggozino i think would be the safest of the 4.

I actually have a few days off after today, so maybe i can put some input on a few guys i like coming up to this draft.

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05-24-2009, 12:54 PM
  #290
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On that note: What can you tell me about USHL defender Philip Samuelsson? & what are your thoughts on Guelph defender Ben Chiarot?

I asked a page or so back, but you're here now so I want you to give me your thoughts.

Both players are fairly similar in that they are defense first big dmen with limited offensive abilities, and both are just average skaters, and use their size effectively both physically and puck protection.



Philip Samuelsson is the son of former gritty NHL Ulf Samuelsson. So the great hockey bloodlines are there, but he doesn't play the game the same way as his dad.. He is a lot more less intimidating then his father.. Samuelsson also has duel citizenship and has played for both USA and Sweden internationally in U-18 and U-17 events in the past. He works very hard and his compete level is very good. In an interview recently when asked Samuelsson compared himself to Karl Alzner as a player he models his game after. The offensive side is still lacking and underdeveloped if that is his perception.. I see him as topping out as a solid 3rd pairing, reliable NHLer in the future at his ceiling. His CHL rights are owned by Edmonton of the WHL, but he has committed to Boston College. I think he will be a 3rd/4th round pick in the upcoming draft, as is ranked #60 on CSS final rankings heading into the draft. 2008-09 stats Chicago Steel USHL .. 54 games 0 goals 22 assists 22 points and 60 Pims.





Ben Chariot - (6-3 / 215 ) .. He has actually had a better second half of the season, been getting more confidence and involved and his draft stock is on the rise. Ranked #100 by CSS at the Mid-term is now 21 spots higher and #79 on the final rankings. He has that NHL size already that NHL scouts love. His 2-10-12 points in 67 games speak to his offense at this time but his 111 Pims catches ones attention as to his biggest contribution. When he gets going forward his skating seem to be okay, but laterally and moving around in his own zone its sluggish and needing improvement. At times he sneaks into the rush as the trailer but spends the majority of his time focused on his defensive game. If his role on the Guelph Storm increased in the future we might see more offensive impact with increased ATOI. likely also a late 3rd to early 5th round selection.. Seems also destined for a depth role in the future as a NHLer.

Both players due to size and style appear to be Burke style players the way they play the game with grit and passion.

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