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Atlanta/Philadelphia

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Old
05-24-2009, 01:24 PM
  #1
fatschoonerrat
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Atlanta/Philadelphia

To Atlanta:
Dany Briere

To Philly:
Kari Lehtonen

-OR-

To Atlanta:
JVR

To Philly:
Kari Lehtonen

Given cap hits (6.5M vs. ~3.5M -- Lehts is RFA again) and team needs (we want a skill forward, you want a goalie), how far off are these, and which one would Philly fans be less happy about?

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Old
05-24-2009, 01:26 PM
  #2
ArchAngel55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
To Atlanta:
Dany Briere

To Philly:
Kari Lehtonen

-OR-

To Atlanta:
JVR

To Philly:
Kari Lehtonen

Given cap hits (6.5M vs. ~3.5M -- Lehts is RFA again) and team needs (we want a skill forward, you want a goalie), how far off are these, and which one would Philly fans be less happy about?
I'd do the 1st in a heartbeat but Briere won't waive his NMC to go to atlanta.

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Old
05-24-2009, 01:27 PM
  #3
Crosberry87
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Do you really want Briere and that contract?

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Old
05-24-2009, 01:30 PM
  #4
Giroux tha Damaja
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I personally would prefer Briere for Lehtonen, but not as a hockey decision. The cap room we could get would be extremely useful for Philly. If it is just about keeping who is the better player for another ~3 years, I send JVR. I think DW is least likely to make this deal though. I think it is JVR for Lehtonen, or Briere for Pavelec + a pick (or a deal around Lupul fr Pavelec). You could maybe get Briere for Pavelec close to straight up if Holmgren thinks he can use that cap space in free agency to address some needs.

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Old
05-24-2009, 01:31 PM
  #5
fatschoonerrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrakaLangKovy View Post
Do you really want Briere and that contract?
I'm opening up to it. I think he'd perform better with our style. We're very aggressive and offensive-minded, so it's possible we're more like the teams he played on with Buffalo. If he can stay healthy. Just wondering what others think about it.

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Old
05-24-2009, 01:34 PM
  #6
fatschoonerrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrakaLangKovy View Post
Do you really want Briere and that contract?
BTW, as others have pointed out, Briere's cap hit is 6.5M but his actual contract is much less:

Quote:
For an example of what I'm talking about, consider Exhibit A the Daniel Briere Contract (I'm not saying the Thrashers will trade for Briere, this is just a handy example of a front loaded contract.)

...
Year, Actual, Cap Hit
2007-08 $10 $6.5
2008-09 $8 $6.5
2009-10 $8 $6.5
2010-11 $7 $6.5
2011-12 $7 $6.5
2012-13 $7 $6.5
2013-14 $3 $6.5
2014-15 $2 $6.5
http://www.birdwatchersanonymous.com...rview-analysis

edit: On a team like ours with a self-imposed cap, getting 35% of the actual contract value taken care of by another team in the first 2 yrs (25% of contract length) helps.

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Old
05-24-2009, 01:38 PM
  #7
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
I'm opening up to it. I think he'd perform better with our style. We're very aggressive and offensive-minded, so it's possible we're more like the teams he played on with Buffalo. If he can stay healthy. Just wondering what others think about it.
Philadelphia is also aggressive and offensive minded. It was an injury that kept him from being a big force for them this year. I don't think health will be an issue really, he has been durable, particularly for a man of his stature, over his career. I think Kovy could break 100 points with a center of his caliber, no disrespect to your current first line center, as I understand there was some good chemistry towards the year's end there.

Also to the detractors, what do you think would be a fair contract for a player who has had the career that Briere has thus far? On the whole his contract was overpayment, but the front loaded portion of it is over, so the current and future terms are what I would be interested in hearing your opinion of.

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Old
05-24-2009, 02:28 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Philadelphia is also aggressive and offensive minded. It was an injury that kept him from being a big force for them this year. I don't think health will be an issue really, he has been durable, particularly for a man of his stature, over his career. I think Kovy could break 100 points with a center of his caliber, no disrespect to your current first line center, as I understand there was some good chemistry towards the year's end there.

Also to the detractors, what do you think would be a fair contract for a player who has had the career that Briere has thus far? On the whole his contract was overpayment, but the front loaded portion of it is over, so the current and future terms are what I would be interested in hearing your opinion of.
about brieres nmc. i am one who who thinks that isnt a big deal. i think 95% of players that have them are not ******** and if the time comes for them to move on the will. now obviously it depends but for the most part they would agee to a trade. i love all thse he wotn waive it he wotn paly for so and so team. give me a break

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Old
05-24-2009, 02:38 PM
  #9
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
about brieres nmc. i am one who who thinks that isnt a big deal. i love all thse he wotn waive it he wotn paly for so and so team. give me a break
Yeah, I hear you. These guys are professionals and understand the nature of the business, and playing for a team that you know would like to move you can't be that enjoyable. That said Briere is over 30. He has a wife and school-age children, and I am sure he would like to keep them stable. Obviously I am not in his head, but I think he likes it here, as his wife has ties to Buffalo, and he lives in a community in Jersey that is perennially rated amongst the top 20 towns for quality of life in the US. I would also like to think he enjoys playing in an environment where the fans are involved but not obsessive.

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Old
05-24-2009, 02:58 PM
  #10
kyle evs48
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You're better off trading Lehtonen for picks.

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Old
05-24-2009, 03:01 PM
  #11
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
You're better off trading Lehtonen for picks.
They're better off trading Lehtonen for picks?

Who is giving them what picks that have them better off than trading for a 2nd-over-all prospect or a PPG first line center?

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Old
05-24-2009, 03:04 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Also to the detractors, what do you think would be a fair contract for a player who has had the career that Briere has thus far? On the whole his contract was overpayment, but the front loaded portion of it is over, so the current and future terms are what I would be interested in hearing your opinion of.
The annual cap hit might be easier to swallow if it weren't for the length of the contract.

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Old
05-24-2009, 03:24 PM
  #13
Magnus Fulgur
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Briere is a right handed center...could be great with Kovalchuk.

However, Todd White had a great year in 09 and Peverley was projected as a nearly PPG center.

Atlanta needs big wingers first and foremost.

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Old
05-24-2009, 03:34 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Atlanta needs big wingers first and foremost.
Enter Lupul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Budaj Bugatti View Post
The annual cap hit might be easier to swallow if it weren't for the length of the contract.
Does Atlanta ever spend to the cap?

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Old
05-24-2009, 03:56 PM
  #15
flyguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Enter Lupul?


He's not exactly "big". He's 6'1 and rarely plays a physical game.

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Old
05-24-2009, 04:04 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
He's not exactly "big". He's 6'1 and rarely plays a physical game.
He's not a lanky 6'1'' and in the new NHL full of guys like Patrick Kane and Steven Stamkos, 6'1'' 215 pounds is kind of big for a forward.

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Old
05-24-2009, 04:06 PM
  #17
flyguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
He's not a lanky 6'1'' and in the new NHL full of guys like Patrick Kane and Steven Stamkos, 6'1'' 215 pounds is kind of big for a forward.
Yeah but the point of my argument is not just about the numbers of size. It has to do with how you use that size. And for Lupul's case, he just doesn't use his size in the kind of way that Thrashers fans are looking for in a "big" forward.

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Old
05-24-2009, 04:17 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
about brieres nmc. i am one who who thinks that isnt a big deal. i think 95% of players that have them are not ******** and if the time comes for them to move on the will. now obviously it depends but for the most part they would agee to a trade. i love all thse he wotn waive it he wotn paly for so and so team. give me a break
How is negotiating for a NMC/NTC and then not waiving it being a jerk off? It was part of the contract. Sure, you can be a nice player and move it if asked but it is by no means an obligation to waive it or they might as well have not had it in the first place.

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Old
05-24-2009, 04:17 PM
  #19
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They're not going to take Briere and his contract for their starting goaltender. Period.

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05-24-2009, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Yeah but the point of my argument is not just about the numbers of size. It has to do with how you use that size. And for Lupul's case, he just doesn't use his size in the kind of way that Thrashers fans are looking for in a "big" forward.
That is valid, at least as it relates to his play last year. Though he has shown in the play offs and in prior years a willingness to be physical. They're looking for more of a Hartnell type, you think? I know most of us fans wouldn't move him, but I would be willing to ship him for a starting goalie.

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05-24-2009, 04:49 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
That is valid, at least as it relates to his play last year. Though he has shown in the play offs and in prior years a willingness to be physical. They're looking for more of a Hartnell type, you think? I know most of us fans wouldn't move him, but I would be willing to ship him for a starting goalie.
I wouldn't trade Hartnell for an average starting goalie in Lehtonen. He is too important to the team, especially if Knuble walks.

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05-24-2009, 06:09 PM
  #22
The Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
BTW, as others have pointed out, Briere's cap hit is 6.5M but his actual contract is much less:



http://www.birdwatchersanonymous.com...rview-analysis

edit: On a team like ours with a self-imposed cap, getting 35% of the actual contract value taken care of by another team in the first 2 yrs (25% of contract length) helps.
I just have to ask this question and clarify a point,

people keep saying Briere's salary is less than his cap hit, but forgive me as I see that he is in line to make 8 million next season and 7 million per for the following 3 seasons, just where in that is his actual contract cheaper than his cap hit?

2009-10 $8 $6.5
2010-11 $7 $6.5
2011-12 $7 $6.5
2012-13 $7 $6.5

edit: I understand the last 2 years are for 3 mil and 2 mill respectivly, I am trying to make a point about the next 4 years.


Last edited by The Pucks: 05-24-2009 at 06:16 PM.
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Old
05-24-2009, 06:15 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
To Atlanta:
Dany Briere

To Philly:
Kari Lehtonen

-OR-

To Atlanta:
JVR

To Philly:
Kari Lehtonen

Given cap hits (6.5M vs. ~3.5M -- Lehts is RFA again) and team needs (we want a skill forward, you want a goalie), how far off are these, and which one would Philly fans be less happy about?
A wonderfull proposal on paper and you know what, I could see Briere being a great fit with Kovalchuk. But now the real world kicks in. I just dont see Briere accepting a trade to Atlanta for a few reasons, not the least of which is the rumors of uncertinty in the financial situation in Atlanta. From the other side of the story I dont see Atlanta taking on Briere's contract. Just to much money for to long especially for a team trying to also sign Kovalchuk to a long term deal. Briere is still going to make 8 million next season and 7 million per the following 3 years. Those are real dollars that have to be paid, factor in a potential windfall for Kovy and thats alot of cash tied up for 2 guys.

The 2nd idea is very valid and I would not be suprised to see a deal come down along those lines near the draft.

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Old
05-24-2009, 06:15 PM
  #24
Shadow Flyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
I just have to ask this question and clarify a point,

people keep saying Briere's salary is less than his cap hit, but forgive me as I see that he is in line to make 8 million next season and 7 million per for the following 3 seasons, just where in that is his actual contract cheaper than his cap hit?

2009-10 $8 $6.5
2010-11 $7 $6.5
2011-12 $7 $6.5
2012-13 $7 $6.5
Well, you took off the last two years, where his salary is much lower than his cap hit. Hence, his salary is less than his cap hit for the duration of his contract. Over the next 4 years, however, that is not the case.

In other words, over the duration of his contract, the cap hit is $45M, while the actual salary is $34M.

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05-24-2009, 06:21 PM
  #25
The Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Well, you took off the last two years, where his salary is much lower than his cap hit. Hence, his salary is less than his cap hit for the duration of his contract. Over the next 4 years, however, that is not the case.

In other words, over the duration of his contract, the cap hit is $45M, while the actual salary is $34M.
I assumed that was obvious to everyone but I made a note just in case. My point is his contract is actually more costly than the cap hit for the next 4 seasons. Its not a front loaded as it seems.

Out of the 8 years of the contract, only 2 seasons he is paid less than the cap hit.

Your figures are a bit wrong, he has a cap hit of 39 million over 6 years with the amount paid out to be 34 million.

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