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2008 Draftees - 1 year later

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Old
05-24-2009, 02:59 AM
  #51
Randall Graves*
 
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lol @ people dropping Wilson and Gardiner, I really don't trust Canadian posters on NCAA prospects, they tend to overhype their CHL'ers.

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05-24-2009, 03:01 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
I think there is a clear top 9.
Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Schenn, Filatov, Boedkker, Wilson, Hodgson (in no particular order)

After that, there is arguably four guys that could all vie for that 10th spot.
Myers, Karlsson, Carlson, Markstrom (no order again). However, I do see Myers and Karlsson ahead of the other 2, so in my opinion Karlsson is atleast top 11.

These lists are very subjective though.
Where the heck is Bailey???

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05-24-2009, 04:19 AM
  #53
Howe Elbows 9
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Originally Posted by Slevesque View Post
53 ??
Yes, 53.

Player Team League GP G GPG
Joel Broda Moose Jaw Warriors/Calgary Hitmen WHL 67 53 0.79
Mikhail Stefanovich Quebec Remparts QMJHL 56 49 0.88
Justin DiBenedetto Sarnia Sting OHL 62 45 0.73
Cody Hodgson Brampton Battalion OHL 53 43 0.81
Tyler Ennis Medicine Hat Tigets WHL 61 43 0.70

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Old
05-24-2009, 10:14 AM
  #54
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by GuyWithStatsDegree View Post
This is a ridiculous post. I forgot that prospects stop developing a year after being drafted. That's why Patrice Bergeron is a better player than Zach Parise and Ryan Getzlaf. He made it to the NHL first. End of story.

Also, I'm not sure if you understand how the draft works. You see, GMs and their scouting staffs make projections about players' "long-term futures" before said players participate in a single pro game. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Just because a certain 9th overall pick made a certain worst team in the league a year after being drafted doesn't mean that player is going to be better than some others picked below him.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood the post.

Let's use Bailey as the example, since you make indirect mention of him.

It's very possible that many of the guys from last summer's draft have more long-term potential than Josh Bailey, especially those taken before him.

However, now that this thread is about the 08 Draftees one year later, certainly no one can look at Josh Bailey - no matter what the circumstances - and deny that he just spent an entire season in the NHL .... didn't do all that poorly either.

What this means is simple: he has done nothing to discredit him having been taken 9th overall. The seasons of guys who weren't in the NHL (be it a Hodgson or Myers or whoever) CANNOT be compared to the accomplishments of a 19 year old taking on full-time duty in the NHL. They simply can't.

The things necessary to spend a year in the NHL, both from a physical and mental standpoint as well as the maturity level that is required to complete such a task on and off the ice, soooo dominate what goes on at the college and junior level, that one can hardly say that Bailey has DROPPED in positional value in the ONE year after his being drafted or that players who just did well in college or junior suddenly can be seen has having jumped ahead of him BASED ON THE ONE YEAR SINCE BEING DRAFTED.

He has done nothing but legitimate the Islanders having taken him 9th overall.

Now, sure, a lot of people see Hodgson, for example, as having just put up a monster, monster season, one which would have had him drafted higher last summer than he ultimately was. Some would even say, if he had been drafted by the Islanders, he easily would have done the same thing as Bailey - maybe even more?

Could be.... but that works both ways. Imagine if Bailey had remained on that powerhouse Windsor team???

He was the predetermined captain.... it'd be easily conceivable that HE would have led the OHL in scoring or have at least been way up there... it's very conceivable that he'd have been on the gold medal winning WJC team... maybe even he would have been in the spotlight??? Nothing he did in his last OHL season, a 96 point one, would indicate any drop in his production for that powerhouse had he remained in Windsor.

So many if, if, ifs.....

But none of this happened, because Bailey was already proving himself and learning the ropes in the best league in the world - and guys who weren't doing that, better long-term potential or not, simply can't suddenly be determined to have jumped ahead of him in a 1-year-later draft review.

It defies logic.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 05-24-2009 at 10:22 AM.
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Old
05-24-2009, 12:21 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
I really like Josh Bailey. I don't feel insecure that my team traded down and passed up more talented players to take him. No, sir!
Well, that was sure a lot of writing.

The purpose of this thread was to rank the 2008 draftees for a fantasy draft. At this point, the players are all still very much in the developmental stage of their careers. This isn't re-ranking the 2000 draft where all the players are already finished products. The dreaded p-word (potential) is still very much in play here. That's why it's irrelevant that Josh Bailey cracked the Islanders' powerhouse lineup this season (as a 19 year old). This isn't about where these players are now, it's about where they're going to be in 5+ years.

And again, please try to make an argument for Bailey that isn't based solely on the "learning the ropes in the best league in the world" angle. Seriously, who wouldn't have made the Islanders? Also, as has been previously stated and subsequently ignored, Bailey is a year older than most of the other 2008 draftees.

But, it's apparently a crime in Nassau County to predict that Bailey will have a respectable career as a 2nd liner.

Now, that defies logic.

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05-24-2009, 01:19 PM
  #56
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by GuyWithStatsDegree View Post
The purpose of this thread was to rank the 2008 draftees for a fantasy draft. At this point, the players are all still very much in the developmental stage of their careers. This isn't re-ranking the 2000 draft where all the players are already finished products. The dreaded p-word (potential) is still very much in play here. That's why it's irrelevant that Josh Bailey cracked the Islanders' powerhouse lineup this season (as a 19 year old). This isn't about where these players are now, it's about where they're going to be in 5+ years.
I didn't see the OP describe the purpose of this thread as such.

We're asked to simply rank them 1-30 at this juncture, one year the wiser.

One year the wiser, Bailey is an NHLer and even some of the guys picked after him in the draft are not, yet are considered by some here to have jumped him the overall picture of things.

You say, "please try to make an argument for Bailey that isn't based solely on the 'learning the ropes in the best league in the world' angle."

I say how about people stop pretending that junior and college players would jump ahead of Bailey because they feel "anybody" could have made the Islanders? That's poor, it's pure conjecture and it doesn't deny that Bailey achieved something that others taken in the same draft didn't and may not have been able to do, if they had been taken by the Isles.

Once again, it goes both ways - i.e. please be ready to use the same conjecture as to what Bailey could have done if he had spent the season in Windsor. There's plenty of reason to believe he could have done everything and more that, for example, Hodgson and Myers achieved.

Others here have gone into more detail about Bailey's attributes and I agree with them. The boy carries himself very well on and off the ice, showing huge strides in adjusting to the pro game and improving steadily in face-offs and with his defensive zone coverage. His ability to protect the puck in the offensive zone was sometimes astounding and was practiced more and more regularly as the season progressed. His on-ice vision made us fans hungry for more by the end of the year. We're looking forward to watching his progress.... every inclination is that he'll be an above-average distributor of the puck in the course of his career.

Quote:
But, it's apparently a crime in Nassau County to predict that Bailey will have a respectable career as a 2nd liner.
Actually, pretty much everyone in Nassau County sees Bailey spending most of his career as a second liner.

Management hasn't tried selling him as more than that either.

I might also add that a good number of Islander fans felt he should have spent the year in juniors, including myself. In the course of the year though, he did a good job in showing why management was perfectly justified in keeping him on the Island.

Point is and remains, folks who go about reranking last summer's draft and drop Bailey in the ranks are not accurately or logically going about with their reranking process. Bailey has done nothing but legitimate why he was taken 9th and has done nothing to drop from that spot, sure as hell not to a bunch of guys who DIDN'T spend the last season in the NHL.

At the end of the day though, I personally don't think any team picking amongst the top 12 or 14 would do anything any differently now, a year later.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 05-24-2009 at 02:24 PM.
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05-24-2009, 01:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by GuyWithStatsDegree View Post
Those sound like numbers a 2nd liner would put up, yes? Then how is Bailey being "undersold"?

You Islander fans are getting awfully defensive about this.
I have to apologize for my typo: what I meant was 20 goals 60 assists numbers one day .. That tops out as a first liner to me. Not 60 points as I mistakenly added. Defensive, not really sure. Folks should look at the picks the Isles used to move just 4 spots down in stead of saying "stupid isles passed on Schenn, little Niky Filatov and group" to grab Bailey? . Infact the isles are still left with Toronto's 2nd this year due to last years draft day moves. Snow did a nice job re stocking the cupboard just from his 08 picks. Anyway, sure is nice knowing in 09 the Isles should grab the prize pick and load up on I think 6 picks in the top 60. too lazy to check that but safe to say our cupboard is going to be loaded soon Add that to the young core already in Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Bergenheim, comeau, Jeff Tambellini, and Dipietro and the isles are on the right path. At this time they are 7 million under the cap floor!!! The isles will be in good shape in a year or two and may actually make some damage soon enough. Not sure if this is being defensive but is makes us Isles fans see the silver lining from the last 2 two years of missing about 1,000 man games lost to injuries.

cheers

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Old
05-24-2009, 02:56 PM
  #58
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[QUOTE=Randall Graves;19671054]lol @ people dropping Wilson and Gardiner, I really don't trust Canadian posters on NCAA prospects, they tend to overhype their CHL'ers.[/QUOTE]

Agree about "most" Canadian posters. It is so hard to compare these prospects until they are all competing on even ground.
Bailey played most of the season in the NHL (obviously as high as you can get)
Hodgson played in the OHL (with and against some 16 year olds - max age 20)
Wilson played all season college hockey ( anywhere from 18 yr. old to as old as 26)
Here are three centerman picked in the top ten last year......How the hell can you possible try to compare this years season?
It is fun speculating, but who knows until they are all in the same playing field.....rink?

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Old
05-24-2009, 03:13 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Shlomo View Post
Yes, 53.
Plus his production was consistent despite a mid-season trade, suggesting that he isn't the product of a system or overly skilled teammates. He's a long way from the NHL, but us Caps fans are thrilled with the way he's turning out so far.

Plus Dmitri Kugryshev led the Q in rookie scoring this year, giving us hope for another strong Russian in Washington's future.

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Old
05-24-2009, 03:15 PM
  #60
Wayne Maki
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Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue View Post
How the hell can you possible try to compare this years season?
It is fun speculating, but who knows until they are all in the same playing field.....rink?
If only there was some kind of tournament the top prospects played in.

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05-24-2009, 03:30 PM
  #61
Andrew B
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Considering -most- haven't played in the NHL, it's ******** to try and re-rank them.

Personally I think evaluating a draft 4 years after the fact is where it starts to become acceptable.

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Old
05-24-2009, 05:32 PM
  #62
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by Andrew B View Post
Considering -most- haven't played in the NHL, it's ******** to try and re-rank them.

Personally I think evaluating a draft 4 years after the fact is where it starts to become acceptable.
Yep, things worth considering.

I think a lot of folks, Hockey's Future included, feel a draft is worth reviewing after 5 years. Might be a pretty good point at which to make a assessment about a draft.

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05-24-2009, 05:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue View Post
Agree about "most" Canadian posters. It is so hard to compare these prospects until they are all competing on even ground.
Bailey played most of the season in the NHL (obviously as high as you can get)
Hodgson played in the OHL (with and against some 16 year olds - max age 20)
Wilson played all season college hockey ( anywhere from 18 yr. old to as old as 26)
Here are three centerman picked in the top ten last year......How the hell can you possible try to compare this years season?
It is fun speculating, but who knows until they are all in the same playing field.....rink?
True, I dont see Wilson dropping much though, he looked impressive at the World Championship.

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05-24-2009, 08:08 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
True, I dont see Wilson dropping much though, he looked impressive at the World Championship.
Also was Hobey Baker runner-up....to a senior, Wilson was a sophomore. Inch player of the year
Hodgson won CHL player of the year.....awesome
Bailey of course played most of the year in the NHL which is great!

I know this is like beating a dead horse but as other posters have said, lets compare these prospects 4 -5 years from now. They are all great prospects. I doubt very much that any of the top ten from last years draft would be a "bust"

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