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Old
05-24-2009, 07:22 PM
  #26
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no and no

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Old
05-24-2009, 07:25 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
I assumed that was obvious to everyone but I made a note just in case. My point is his contract is actually more costly than the cap hit for the next 4 seasons. Its not a front loaded as it seems.

Out of the 8 years of the contract, only 2 seasons he is paid less than the cap hit.
Yes, absolutely correct.

And since the real savings with Briere aren't until the last 2 years of his contract, it probably doesn't do much for those organizations looking to save on actual salary.

Maybe it will mean more after the Flyers eat another two years, if Briere is still playing at a relatively high level, but as of now, I can't see that being a major factor for anyone looking to trade for him at this very moment.

Edit: Yea, my math is fuzzy today, too much drinking. You are correct that his cap hit for the duration is $39M total.

Back to drinking!

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Old
05-24-2009, 08:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Yeah but the point of my argument is not just about the numbers of size. It has to do with how you use that size. And for Lupul's case, he just doesn't use his size in the kind of way that Thrashers fans are looking for in a "big" forward.
i disagree with you about lupul using his size...this season he didn't have as many hits as the previous season but i think that is because when you play on a line w/ carter you are chasing a vapor trail (not that lupul is slow) and there is very little puck possession or dump and chase... if you look at the season before hwen he was on richards line lupul lead the team in hits...richards carries the puck in and waits for his linemates or cycles the puck more where carter is just firing away.

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Old
05-24-2009, 08:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
They're better off trading Lehtonen for picks?

Who is giving them what picks that have them better off than trading for a 2nd-over-all prospect or a PPG first line center?
What the hell would be the point of getting Briere? It's not like he would take them to the playoffs.

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Old
05-24-2009, 08:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Does Atlanta ever spend to the cap?
His savings don't start until the second to last year of his contract.

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Old
05-24-2009, 10:12 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
What the hell would be the point of getting Briere? It's not like he would take them to the playoffs.
Who are they drafting this year that is getting them to the play-offs? Do you think about these things, or are you just posting stuff? I also would not be surprised if a player like Briere got them over the hump.

Briere = PPG center over his career. Kovalchuk wants to see some serious efforts to improve the team and give him reason to resign. ATL fans, who know their team better than I do, are saying the team has more pressing needs. Fair enough, but the idea that Briere is useless that seems to be popular on these boards is just ridiculous.

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Old
05-24-2009, 10:14 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Budaj Bugatti View Post
His savings don't start until the second to last year of his contract.
Right, I am just making the point that Briere is not going to leave the Atlanta Thrashers hamstrung or handcuffed. The savings aside, they still will have plenty of cap room.

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Old
05-24-2009, 11:09 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
I just have to ask this question and clarify a point,

people keep saying Briere's salary is less than his cap hit, but forgive me as I see that he is in line to make 8 million next season and 7 million per for the following 3 seasons, just where in that is his actual contract cheaper than his cap hit?

2009-10 $8 $6.5
2010-11 $7 $6.5
2011-12 $7 $6.5
2012-13 $7 $6.5

edit: I understand the last 2 years are for 3 mil and 2 mill respectivly, I am trying to make a point about the next 4 years.
Do you search Flyers proposal purely to point out the flaws, or do you do this to every other teams' as well?

I only ever see you trashing Flyers proposals.

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Old
05-24-2009, 11:54 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Right, I am just making the point that Briere is not going to leave the Atlanta Thrashers hamstrung or handcuffed. The savings aside, they still will have plenty of cap room.
That's a fair point, but it's a big chunk of money to spend. But, fair enough.

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Old
05-24-2009, 11:57 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Budaj Bugatti View Post
That's a fair point, but it's a big chunk of money to spend. But, fair enough.
Nothings for nothing. You get what you pay for. Well maybe not, but you always end up paying for what you get, I'll put it like that.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:19 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Do you search Flyers proposal purely to point out the flaws, or do you do this to every other teams' as well?

I only ever see you trashing Flyers proposals.
You have the choice to read or not to read.

Not sure where I trashed anything here, but if you think I did, to bad, so sad, have a nice day.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:42 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
You have the choice to read or not to read.

Not sure where I trashed anything here, but if you think I did, to bad, so sad, have a nice day.
You're right, and I decided to read yet another flaw pointed out by you in a Flyers trade proposal.

You get a pleasure out of denying/disagreeing with Flyers fans...admittttt it.

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Old
05-25-2009, 01:05 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
You're right, and I decided to read yet another flaw pointed out by you in a Flyers trade proposal.

You get a pleasure out of denying/disagreeing with Flyers fans...admittttt it.
Just the ones who tell half truths or full out lies. Then again I take pleasure it correcting fans of any team who do the same thing, it just happens you have a few of the off the wall type of guys who are very prominent right now.

There are very many good Flyer fans on these boards, guys I respect a great deal, sadly there are a few others who just like to ruin your teams reputation.

By the way, I have had similar conversations with Flyers fans with private messaging, they usually agree with me, no sense hijacking a thread, thats one of the reason pm's are available to us.

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Old
05-25-2009, 06:41 AM
  #39
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i actually think briere would waive his NTC to go to atlanta, where he'd go back to being the top center. here in philly, he gets bumped down to the 3rd line; maybe he'd waive if he got the chance to feed kovalchuk some one-timers.

i was thinking that the flyers should take back some salary/veteran, but looking at the atlanta roster, there isn't really much in that department that wouldn't be overpayment.

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Old
05-25-2009, 11:41 AM
  #40
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I'd do either in a heartbeat to get the injury prone, weak willed, unconfident sieve out from Atlanta's net.

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Old
05-25-2009, 11:59 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post
I'd do either in a heartbeat to get the injury prone, weak willed, unconfident sieve out from Atlanta's net.
I'm beginning to get the impression you don't like Kari Lehtonen. Am I in the neighborhood?

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Old
05-25-2009, 01:51 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Right, I am just making the point that Briere is not going to leave the Atlanta Thrashers hamstrung or handcuffed. The savings aside, they still will have plenty of cap room.
Geez I missed this one, Im getting soft.

Briere may not handcuff them to the salary cap right now, but what about their teams budget? If I am not mistaken Atlanta has a set budget that they wont/cant go over and it is significantly less than the cap.

What happens if Kovy signs, he and Briere would eat a huge amount of that cap.

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Old
05-25-2009, 07:07 PM
  #43
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Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread??? Ok, I'll post this again for the new guys.


I do think that a deal between the Flyers and Thrashers will get done before FA begins July 1st. I think the Flyers will be getting and resigning Lehtonen and the Thrashers will be giving th reigns to Pavelec. I think Lehtonen will be looking at 5-5.5 mil per season and the only way for Philly to take on thiat kind of salary is for Atlanta to take back some salary in return. I doubt that Briere waives his NMC for a number of reasons but they're not what's important, Briere no leaving Philly IS. Now for the deal:

Personally, I think it's going to be Lupul + for Lehtonen. The + depends upon what Atl wants, what they need, and when the deal gets done. I think that if Philly gives up at top 6 winger in Lupul that they will be hard pressed to give up JVR, their best prospect to have a chance to replace Lupul in the top 6. I could see it being Sbisa but from what I've been lead to believe from the Thrashers fans they have solid young dmen who really just need time to grow. Kovi has basically said that he wants to stay in Atl but only if they are committed to trying to win and be a playoff team. For that reason, I believe that Atl will wants quality raoster players instead of picks. They seemed to show interest in Andres Nodl and it it's true that they could use an upgrade to their STARTING top 4 (they have quality guys for the future but need some help now) then I think Parent will be the other player. This makes the deal as follows:

To Philly - Lehtonen
To Atlanta - Joffrey Lupul, Ryan Parent, Andres Nodl

feel free tothrow in 3rd and 4th rnd picks as you feel necessary to even the deal out. I understand that Philly doesn't want to give up Parent, the center pieces of the Forsberg trade, but if they are looking at adding a defensive upgrade from the UFA market then they need to make room on the top 4 anyways. I don't know where they are going to get the cap space to bring in a UFA dman but it is what Homer said he's gonna do.

Now before Flyers fans start jumping all over me about over paying, I'm not saying that I think this is fair value, it just seems to me to be in alignment with with what each team has said they want/need.


Last edited by phlocky: 05-25-2009 at 07:31 PM.
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Old
05-25-2009, 08:20 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread??? Ok, I'll post this again for the new guys.


I do think that a deal between the Flyers and Thrashers will get done before FA begins July 1st. I think the Flyers will be getting and resigning Lehtonen and the Thrashers will be giving th reigns to Pavelec. I think Lehtonen will be looking at 5-5.5 mil per season and the only way for Philly to take on thiat kind of salary is for Atlanta to take back some salary in return. I doubt that Briere waives his NMC for a number of reasons but they're not what's important, Briere no leaving Philly IS. Now for the deal:

Personally, I think it's going to be Lupul + for Lehtonen. The + depends upon what Atl wants, what they need, and when the deal gets done. I think that if Philly gives up at top 6 winger in Lupul that they will be hard pressed to give up JVR, their best prospect to have a chance to replace Lupul in the top 6. I could see it being Sbisa but from what I've been lead to believe from the Thrashers fans they have solid young dmen who really just need time to grow. Kovi has basically said that he wants to stay in Atl but only if they are committed to trying to win and be a playoff team. For that reason, I believe that Atl will wants quality raoster players instead of picks. They seemed to show interest in Andres Nodl and it it's true that they could use an upgrade to their STARTING top 4 (they have quality guys for the future but need some help now) then I think Parent will be the other player. This makes the deal as follows:

To Philly - Lehtonen
To Atlanta - Joffrey Lupul, Ryan Parent, Andres Nodl

feel free tothrow in 3rd and 4th rnd picks as you feel necessary to even the deal out. I understand that Philly doesn't want to give up Parent, the center pieces of the Forsberg trade, but if they are looking at adding a defensive upgrade from the UFA market then they need to make room on the top 4 anyways. I don't know where they are going to get the cap space to bring in a UFA dman but it is what Homer said he's gonna do.

Now before Flyers fans start jumping all over me about over paying, I'm not saying that I think this is fair value, it just seems to me to be in alignment with with what each team has said they want/need.
I think Atlanta would rather move Pavelec first before Lehtonen. Also Parent and Nodl aren't good enough prospects to receive in return if the thrashers are going to give up on an elite talent like Kari. If Lehtonen is going to be dealt to Philly then JVR is a must to be included in the above package.


Last edited by Peter Sidorkiewicz: 05-25-2009 at 08:25 PM.
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Old
05-25-2009, 08:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
I think Atlanta would rather move Pavelec first before Lehtonen. Also Parent and Nodl aren't good enough prospects to receive in return if the thrashers are going to give up on an elite talent like Kari. If Lehtonen is going to be dealt to Philly then JVR is a must to be included in the above package.
Nodl can be a 3rd liner now and definitely has good 2nd line potential. You're getting a current 2nd liner in Lupul. And a top-4 young defensive dman in Parent.

you're not going to get much more for Lehtonen then that. You may get an elite prospect but you're going to get hardly anything that's proven in that case

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Old
05-25-2009, 08:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
Nodl can be a 3rd liner now and definitely has good 2nd line potential. You're getting a current 2nd liner in Lupul. And a top-4 young defensive dman in Parent.

you're not going to get much more for Lehtonen then that. You may get an elite prospect but you're going to get hardly anything that's proven in that case

If the Thrashers were to add to Lehtonen, then JVR+ might be a possibility.

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Old
05-25-2009, 09:23 PM
  #47
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If the Thrashers were to add to Lehtonen, then JVR+ might be a possibility.
of course but it depends on what they'd be adding

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Old
05-25-2009, 11:01 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Geez I missed this one, Im getting soft.

Briere may not handcuff them to the salary cap right now, but what about their teams budget? If I am not mistaken Atlanta has a set budget that they wont/cant go over and it is significantly less than the cap.

What happens if Kovy signs, he and Briere would eat a huge amount of that cap.
I am aware that Daniel Briere does not play for free.
I have mentioned in another ATL Philly thread the internal budget they operate on. My guess would be that if they want to keep Kovalchuk (presumably by showing a commitment to improving) they are going to need to exceed it. You can't get something for nothing, and Kovalchuk has specifically requested off season improvements to the team. Whether Briere is the best place for ATL to put those assets is another issue entirely.

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:10 AM
  #49
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To Philly: Valabik, Lehtonen, 4th overall
to Atlanta: Hartnell, JVR

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:13 AM
  #50
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To Philly: Valabik, Lehtonen, 4th overall
to Atlanta: Hartnell, JVR
The value is good, but Hartnell has a NTC and I doubt the Flyers move him.

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