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Thrashers 1st round pick

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Old
05-24-2009, 10:25 PM
  #101
Norm MacDonald
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Originally Posted by Sunfire View Post
I don't think Spezza is being overvalued. In 293 games he has put up 342 pts and has an average of +13 compared to Carter who played 307 games for 216 points and has an average of +5.

If the trade were broken down it would be a Spezza for a 1st, Esposito, and Lehtonen. Lehtonen then traded to Phillie. Based on what I have read so far Phillie fans are more than willing to overpay and give up some future to get Lehtonen if they did a straight up deal with Atlanta.
If you think Spezza is that good, then why do you want to trade him? It's not like Ottawa has an elite center in the organization to replace him.

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05-24-2009, 11:39 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DeepOrange View Post
If you think Spezza is that good, then why do you want to trade him? It's not like Ottawa has an elite center in the organization to replace him.
I'm open to moving him to gain some cap space and shake a few things up.

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05-24-2009, 11:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
But that's not fair to Carter, who has only been in the league for 4 seasons. You can't compare two big centers by using one's 3rd through 6th seasons and the other's 1st through 4th. You have to include Spezza's first two seasons in the comparison.
Good point. In Spezza's first two seasons he put up 76pts in 111 games compared to Carters 79pts in 143 games. Both in their 1st and 2nd seasons.

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05-24-2009, 11:58 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
We may be willing to overpay slightly for Lehtonen, but your proposal is way past the point of reasonable. There is overpayment, then there is just getting fleeced. If Philadelphia is willing to part with Carter for a goalie they can get a better return than Lehtonen. We do worse in your deal than we would just dealing with Atlanta in a one on one basis. No offense, but that proposal just doesn't take into account what is fair for Philadelphia.
Phillie is getting a starting goalie and a quality checking/PK center in Kelly for Carter. What would you deem as a fair deal for Philly.

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05-25-2009, 12:14 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfire View Post
I don't think Spezza is being overvalued. In 293 games he has put up 342 pts and has an average of +13 compared to Carter who played 307 games for 216 points and has an average of +5.
Spezza played those years on great teams. Not until recently have the Flyers been worth much for Carter. Spezza's statistics are inflated by playing on some really good lines on a pretty successful team. He's not nearly as valuable as you're hoping.

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05-25-2009, 12:22 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Tomas Kaberle
Mikhail Grabovksi

for

4th Overall
Colby Armstrong
Grabovski and Armstrong are pretty much equal value IMO. So this to me boils down to you wanting to equate Tomas Kaberle to a 4th overall pick in 2009. If Kaberle was, say, 25, not 31, you might have some ground to stand on. He's a good player, but he's not worth a 4th overall. This would be a terrible deal for Atlanta even you think he is equal to the 4th overall, since Kaberle only has two more years on his contract. And it certainly doesn't address any of our needs.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:26 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfire View Post
Phillie is getting a starting goalie and a quality checking/PK center in Kelly for Carter. What would you deem as a fair deal for Philly.
For a locked-up Lehtonen? I suggested Jones and JVR for Lehtonen and Valabik earlier. Someone else suggested Lupul and JVR for that package instead. I am interested in Lehtonen or Pavelec, Valabik, and Slater for the Flyers, so what do you think? Carter is insane overpayment. You do know that he just scored 46 goals, right?

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:30 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfire View Post
I don't think Spezza is being overvalued. In 293 games he has put up 342 pts and has an average of +13 compared to Carter who played 307 games for 216 points and has an average of +5.

If the trade were broken down it would be a Spezza for a 1st, Esposito, and Lehtonen. Lehtonen then traded to Phillie. Based on what I have read so far Phillie fans are more than willing to overpay and give up some future to get Lehtonen if they did a straight up deal with Atlanta.
Sorry dude, the way that trade works for Philly and Ottawa is pain not good. Ottawa ends up with Carter, the 4th overall pick in the draft, a 3rd rounder, Angelo Esposito for Spezza and Kelly? Not even close.

In my opinion I would take Carter over Spezza, and then you manage to get the 4th overall pick which is packing huge value, Angelo Esposito and a 3rd rounder for good luck?

Horrible.

Philly gives up Carter and a 3rd and manages to get Lehtonen and Kelly? Once again I dont think this is ever good value for Philly, not near as bad as the other end of the deal, but not something Philly would go for.

Atlanta to give up Lehtonen, the 4th overall and Angelo Esposito for Spezza? Never going to happen.

The thing with Spezza is he just isnt a very well rounded player, he has always had either Heatley or Alfredsson, and many times both, to carry the mail. He is a great playmaker, but after that, pretty much nothing to speak of.

Sorry man, the only team who would do that deal is Ottawa.

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Old
05-25-2009, 05:01 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Sunfire View Post
I'm open to moving him to gain some cap space and shake a few things up.
The thing is... for the value you are asking in return, you make him out to be an indispensable franchise player. If that's how Ottawa management feels about him, they would just label him "untouchable" and not mention him in trade talks, because he is far more important to that organization than any other one.

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Old
05-25-2009, 05:55 AM
  #110
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PM Bouchard + 12th overall for the 4th and a 3rd

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Old
05-25-2009, 06:11 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by blankspace6 View Post
We're giving up Lehtonen, Esposito, and a 4th overall and all we get in return is Spezza? The guy is good, but there better be something else added on to that.
Your giving up a injury prone goalie,One who is definitely a starter but still has health issues and i really like leths.
A prospect who's fallen off the face of the map. The only way this guy makes the NHL and stays there is by riding the coat -tails of other players.Have you guys ever watch him play. He's lazy,doesn't know the meaning of backchecking,can't do nothing on his own,Only looks good when someone is setting him up.
The 4th overall pick is a different thing.I not quite sure how to value that pick.
Bottom line is you have another goalie that can replace lehts so i think getting Spezza to play with Kovy and giving up Leths,espo and the 4th is a good deal for Atl.Just my opinion boys.

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Old
05-25-2009, 06:16 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
To Atl: Gomez, 1st, mid level prospect

To NY: 4th overall + salary dump/bad contract?

Atl gets a center for Kovy, a 1st round (i think 19th) and a mid level prospect (d-man or forward)
I bet in return for helping give the Rangers significant cap flexibility, the Thrashers would be inclined to ask for a top prospect, as well... say Evgeny Grachev. Rangers fans may want to say it's an overpayment, but we're talking about a top 5 pick in a very deep draft.

Gomez, Grachev, #19 for #4, Todd White

With this trade, the Thrashers would go into next year with Gomez, Little, and Peverly down the middle. Gomez still has the talent to be a near-PPG player, and having a winger like Kovalchuk should bring out the best in his game. Also, you hope Kovalchuk embraces the opportunity to mentor a young Russian with high-end talent and takes Grachev under his wing (that is assuming Ilya remains a Thrasher into the foreseeable future).

In addition to getting a chance to draft a potential future NHL star, the Rangers would be getting back an older, yet still productive center to take Gomez's spot. Yes, I know White put up nearly a PPG playing with Kovalchuk on his wing, but let's see how he does on a line with Sean Avery and Ryan Callahan. I still think he'd be a solid player, but I wouldn't expect 70+ points. Probably in the 45-55 range.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:33 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper View Post
Your giving up a injury prone goalie,One who is definitely a starter but still has health issues and i really like leths.
A prospect who's fallen off the face of the map. The only way this guy makes the NHL and stays there is by riding the coat -tails of other players.Have you guys ever watch him play. He's lazy,doesn't know the meaning of backchecking,can't do nothing on his own,Only looks good when someone is setting him up.
The 4th overall pick is a different thing.I not quite sure how to value that pick.
Bottom line is you have another goalie that can replace lehts so i think getting Spezza to play with Kovy and giving up Leths,espo and the 4th is a good deal for Atl.Just my opinion boys.
we don't have a goalie that can replace kari. pavelec is AT LEAST 3 years away from being a legitimate starting golie and he doesn't have nearly the skill lehtonen does. esposito, weather you believe in him or not, is our best top 6 prospect. and the 4th pick will most likely be a player just as good as kane

sorry but this proposal sucks worse than throwing away 100 dollars

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Old
05-25-2009, 01:28 PM
  #114
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we dont need Spezza , no need to over pay for him .

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Old
05-25-2009, 01:44 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
PM Bouchard + 12th overall for the 4th and a 3rd
That would be an interesting deal, I like Bouchards offensive talent and he could be a fit with Kovy. Having the 12th overall helps the sting of losing the 4th, I think some consideration would be given to that deal.

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Old
05-25-2009, 01:56 PM
  #116
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to ATL: Jeff Carter, JVR
to Illadelph: 4th Overall, Lehtonen, Todd White


Kovy- Carter- Peverley
Koz-JVR-Little

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Old
05-25-2009, 02:14 PM
  #117
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Rangers 1st, 2nd rounders and Bobby Sanguinetti

for the 4th overall pick

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Old
05-25-2009, 02:20 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
I think Lecavalier and Mike Smith for the 4th Pick and Lehtonen works pretty well for both teams.

Vinny and Kovalchuck become a lethal duo. Lightning add Hedman and MSP or Kane to Stamkos and are as deep in young talent as anyone.
Lecavalier >>>>>>4th pick
Mike Smith: untouchable
And i don't think that Lehtonen is much better than Smith.

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Old
05-25-2009, 02:24 PM
  #119
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To Edmonton
4th pick over all
Pavelec


To Atlanta
Horcoff
Hemmer

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Old
05-25-2009, 03:39 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
to ATL: Jeff Carter, JVR
to Illadelph: 4th Overall, Lehtonen, Todd White


Kovy- Carter- Peverley
Koz-JVR-Little
The way I am looking at this

JVR = 4th overall pick, more or less. He was a second overall pick and hasn't hurt his value since then.

So you want Jeff Carter for Lehtonen and Todd White? No thank you. Philly has plenty of centers. Also Carter and Kovy on the same line is a waste of two of the NHL's better shooters. You would need to split them up and give them some play-making wingers to get your money's worth out of them.

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