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Old
05-25-2009, 11:25 AM
  #26
DUHockey9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
you think we're going to get something of value for Lupul?
Do we have to pull out the thread about Lupul's market value again? I even had to take the time to make an entire blog post about it.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:01 PM
  #27
Joey Moss
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Joffrey Lupul would thrive in Dallas IMO. The Stars take this and run like the wind.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Joffrey Lupul would thrive in Dallas IMO. The Stars take this and run like the wind.
I could see him blowing up with a guy like Ribeiro.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:08 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Bacl on topic, does trading Robidas for Lupul represent the beginning of a rebuild for Dallas?
Definately not. I'd say it represents trading a guy at his absolute peak value(Robidas) for a guy that fills a glaring organizational hole(right shooting RW). I personally think this is a really good deal for both sides.

The only problem is Lupuls long-term contract would probably get in the way of resigning a bunch of the Stars young guys in the next few seasons.

Other than that, its a great proposal IMO.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:33 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Definately not. I'd say it represents trading a guy at his absolute peak value(Robidas) for a guy that fills a glaring organizational hole(right shooting RW). I personally think this is a really good deal for both sides.

The only problem is Lupuls long-term contract would probably get in the way of resigning a bunch of the Stars young guys in the next few seasons.

Other than that, its a great proposal IMO.
The deal is only 4 years...it's not an eternity, but still a concern.

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05-25-2009, 12:37 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
The deal is only 4 years...it's not an eternity, but still a concern.
Definately, its just that the Stars are going to have Brunnstrom, Eriksson, Neal, Niskanen, and Grossman all as RFA's and all probably wanting raises(especially Eriksson) after next season.

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Old
05-25-2009, 12:51 PM
  #32
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I like this deal for teh Flyers He is not a great defenseman, but he is solid. Plus, we save soem cap room and make a spot for JVR on the Flyers.

Gagne-Richards-Powe
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JvR-Briere-Giroux
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Old
05-25-2009, 01:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
I like this deal for teh Flyers He is not a great defenseman, but he is solid. Plus, we save soem cap room and make a spot for JVR on the Flyers.

Gagne-Richards-Powe
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JvR-Briere-Giroux
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Why do Flyers fans think that JVR is ready to play?

From what I saw, he's nowhere close. He was getting schooled in the AHL, let alone the NHL

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Old
05-25-2009, 01:24 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
I like this deal for teh Flyers He is not a great defenseman, but he is solid. Plus, we save soem cap room and make a spot for JVR on the Flyers.

Gagne-Richards-Powe
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JvR-Briere-Giroux
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Eh.... I don't feel JVR is ready for the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Why do Flyers fans think that JVR is ready to play?

From what I saw, he's nowhere close. He was getting schooled in the AHL, let alone the NHL
This.

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Old
05-25-2009, 02:37 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Is there a reason you doubt Harding, or think he is not one of the better gambles a team could take in net this offseason? Note I said gambles, there are sure-thing goalies available that are likely mroe expensive, with out Harding's upside.

EDIT: Sorry Billy -shoe, for the hijack.

Bacl on topic, does trading Robidas for Lupul represent the beginning of a rebuild for Dallas?
My only doubts about Harding are that in Minnesota he played in a very defensive minded system. I understand why he is so attractive for the Flyers, but I question his ability to be a game-stealer, which is what the Flyers need in net on some days. Biron has shown that he can steal important games (he played out of his mind toward the end of the year this year and just look what he did in last year's playoffs). But has Harding shown that he can steal games in a way that Biron has? IMO I would rather try to re-obtain Biron, hopefully cheaper than what he'll fetch on the open market and then trade some pieces to free up cap room and get defensive help in front of him.

That is why I love the idea of trading Lupul for a player like Robidas. IMO he is just what the Flyers need, and trading for him would help us move more cap-space because there would no longer really be a need for Carle or Jones. Put Robidas on the second pairing with Coburn, and maybe we see Braydon open up his game more to the point where he becomes as effective as he was two seasons ago.

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Old
05-25-2009, 03:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Why do Flyers fans think that JVR is ready to play?

From what I saw, he's nowhere close. He was getting schooled in the AHL, let alone the NHL
I agree. I don't see JVR making the team out of camp...granted I kept saying Sbisa had no shot even when I knew he was having a great camp.

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Old
05-25-2009, 03:14 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
My only doubts about Harding are that in Minnesota he played in a very defensive minded system. I understand why he is so attractive for the Flyers, but I question his ability to be a game-stealer, which is what the Flyers need in net on some days. Biron has shown that he can steal important games (he played out of his mind toward the end of the year this year and just look what he did in last year's playoffs). But has Harding shown that he can steal games in a way that Biron has? IMO I would rather try to re-obtain Biron, hopefully cheaper than what he'll fetch on the open market and then trade some pieces to free up cap room and get defensive help in front of him.
Harding has posted good numbers and been successful at every level of hockey he has played. The guy is a winner. The Minnesota system kool-aid can be misleading, there were plenty of games where he saved his team's bacon (and one or two where he didn't). If you just watch him play. Throw out the stats, sit down and watch him, you can see his abilities. For what it's worth I don't think there is a save that Martin Biron can make that is outside of Harding's capabilities. It's just a matter of whether he would make them if given the chance, and I have a lot of confidence he would.

I disagree regarding Biron's game-stealing ability. Last year's play offs he played well, I would never argue that. But there was way too much hype over it in my opinion. He was stopping a lot of decent-but-not-great scoring chances, and Flyers fans were going crazy because he set the bar at an average height through out the season. It was not like he was piling up amazing save after amazing save (unless they are elevated in our minds from good to amazing on account of them being unexpected). At the beginning of the Pittsburgh series he was, for all the hoopla, having statistically the weakest play-offs of any of the goalies left (though he probably faced more quality chances than some). I wouldn't mind him back at his salary for last year, but 5million is a little rich...

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Old
05-25-2009, 03:21 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteve View Post
Yes, do it. Right now. If the Stars can trick somebody into thinking that Robidas is a top 4 defenseman, then do it.
I agree. The Flyers are getting hosed on the 1st deal.

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Old
05-25-2009, 07:13 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
I agree. I don't see JVR making the team out of camp...granted I kept saying Sbisa had no shot even when I knew he was having a great camp.
It may be worthwhile to get him up and see what he can do, if he is playing with a decent 3rd line center. We'll see once training camp rolls around.

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Old
05-25-2009, 09:50 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
It may be worthwhile to get him up and see what he can do, if he is playing with a decent 3rd line center. We'll see once training camp rolls around.
Why? Do we need more scoring or something?

Stop trying to rush the kid into being an NHLer...he's really just not there yet.

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Old
05-25-2009, 11:09 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ScubaSteve View Post
Yes, do it. Right now. If the Stars can trick somebody into thinking that Robidas is a top 4 defenseman, then do it.
I agree...from the flyers perspective this is the equivalent of buying high.

robidas has to be atleast 32-33 y/o that had a career year...as far as him being the physical presence the flyers need i ain't buyin' it...the guy is like 5'11" and 180lbs, seriously???

i know he blocks shots but no thanks...i'd rather hold on to the 25 y/o scorer (lupul) and let knuble walk and send jones to the AHL for the year and using that money on a guy like ohlund or beauchemin...you have a better chance of carle, coburn, and parent improving (all under 27 y/o) which would make it hard for robidas to even crack the top 4.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:57 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
I agree...from the flyers perspective this is the equivalent of buying high.

robidas has to be atleast 32-33 y/o that had a career year...as far as him being the physical presence the flyers need i ain't buyin' it...the guy is like 5'11" and 180lbs, seriously???

i know he blocks shots but no thanks...i'd rather hold on to the 25 y/o scorer (lupul) and let knuble walk and send jones to the AHL for the year and using that money on a guy like ohlund or beauchemin...you have a better chance of carle, coburn, and parent improving (all under 27 y/o) which would make it hard for robidas to even crack the top 4.
Buy it or not you are wrong! Robidas is very very physical. He may not drop the gloves all to often but he hit anything that moves. Size of a player does is no the be all end all factor if a guy can hit or be physical....new to hockey?

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Old
05-26-2009, 12:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
Buy it or not you are wrong! Robidas is very very physical. He may not drop the gloves all to often but he hit anything that moves. Size of a player does is no the be all end all factor if a guy can hit or be physical....new to hockey?
no, i am not new to hockey and i am also not new to physics either...the bottom line is at 5"10" 180lbs he isn't intimidating anyone from crashing the net and he isn't punishing anyone cycling the puck behind the net... the flyers have dmen that hit...what they need is a dman that can seperate players from the puck and punish them...i am sure robidas is one tough SOB but the bottomline is he ain't what the flyers need.

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Old
05-26-2009, 12:40 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Other than going after a young goalie, who hasn't proven to be a legitimate starting keeper, the only other kind of goalie the Flyers would go after in a trade would be a big name target (Luongo, Kiprusoff, Giguere). And I doubt Lupul would be the centerpiece going the other way in a trade like that. Honestly, Biron is a solid goalie. He is not the main reason why the Flyers were excused in the first round. Robidas is a solid defender and is just what the Flyers need to solidify their d-corps. I'll take the cap-relief and re-sign Biron over selling the house for a goalie. Solid?

Here's the thing, every Vanc fans keeps trying to talk Flyers fans into a deal of Schneider for JVR straight up (some even want us to add more to the deal). All we keep hearing from them is that he's the best goalie in the AHL and he's the best goalie not inthe NHL right now. Here's the thing though, Halak, Harding and Pavelec AREN'T IN THE AHL, they are in the NHL!!!! Harding just finished up his 4th season in the NHL and is almost 25-years old. Halak just finished up his 3rd season in the NHL and is only 24. Schneider played part of the season in the NHL this year at the age of 23 but was sent down because he CLEARLY wasn't ready. Harding and Halak had their first seasons when they were 21 and they stuck. GAA is really a team stat but SV% is an individual goalie stat. This year Schneider had a 0.877 sv% in 8 games. In his first year and 2 years younger than Schneider Harding posted a 0.904 sv%. Halak in his first and also at 2 years younger than Schneider posted a 0.906 sv%. Everybody is all about Schneider Schneider Schneider when the proof is in the pudding, Halak and Harding are MUCH further along, have actually established themselves IN THE NHL, not just that AHL, and they have better numbers. In his 3 years in the NHL Halak improved his sv% to 0.914 with a gaa of 2.80. Harding has improved his sv% to 0.920 and has a gaa of 2.49 while in the NHL. NOBODY is demanding a player like JVR for Harding or Halak. Schnieder has done NOTHING to prove he'll be a legit top end starting goalie in the NHL but some people just can't seem to understand this. He's proven he can be a great AHL goalie, nothing more. His initial showing in the NHL this certainly didn't help his stock at all. Vanc fans don't want to accept this bur Schneider hasn't done anything to prove he's worth anything more than a late 1st or early 2nd in an average draft let alone be worthy of returning a blue chip prospect like JVR.


I would LOVE to get Schneider, but not for the price Vanc fans are asking. The risk is still to great. At this point I'd be comfortable with aquireing Halak from Montreal and actually just giving him the starting job. I think Halak will be a top 15 goali in the league for a long time. I think Schneider has slightly higher upside but there is also a much greater chance that he never reaches where Halak is even right now. Harding I believe will be a decent starter but not great. He might be a bit better than Biron and though that's not bad, it's certainly not in the same company as the other goalies even just in our own division. Regarding Schneider, I'd rather he spends the next 2 years as a backup in Vanc and proves he's the next great starting goalie and then pay JVR and Sbisa both to get him. I'd CERTAINLY be willing to pay a lot more once he's actually proven something than pay JVR right now when he looked pretty bad in his first showing.

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Old
05-26-2009, 12:45 PM
  #45
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Why? Do we need more scoring or something?

Stop trying to rush the kid into being an NHLer...he's really just not there yet.
Giroux wasn't there yet at the beginning of last season, either. Giving the kid a chance to win a spot out of camp does not = "trying to rush the kid into being an NHL'er." It's being smart. He's signed a pro contract. He's SUPPOSED to challenge for a spot on the team.

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Old
05-26-2009, 01:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
no, i am not new to hockey and i am also not new to physics either...the bottom line is at 5"10" 180lbs he isn't intimidating anyone from crashing the net and he isn't punishing anyone cycling the puck behind the net... the flyers have dmen that hit...what they need is a dman that can seperate players from the puck and punish them...i am sure robidas is one tough SOB but the bottomline is he ain't what the flyers need.
I agree with you on that. Only the last time it was brought up someone said a deal involving Robidas +2nd for Sbisa. For what the Flyers need (hard hitting, crease moving D-Man, young goaltender) I don't see anything on Dallas of interest. Although Neal would look good in a Flyers uniform (Richards-Neal- JVR)

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05-26-2009, 02:11 PM
  #47
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I agree with you on that. Only the last time it was brought up someone said a deal involving Robidas +2nd for Sbisa. For what the Flyers need (hard hitting, crease moving D-Man, young goaltender) I don't see anything on Dallas of interest. Although Neal would look good in a Flyers uniform (Richards-Neal- JVR)
It'd cost at LEAST Coburn to get James Neal out of Dallas. Not sure who else. He's not yet as good as Carter or Richards, obviously, but he wouldn't come cheap!

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Old
05-26-2009, 03:18 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Why do Flyers fans think that JVR is ready to play?

From what I saw, he's nowhere close. He was getting schooled in the AHL, let alone the NHL
It depends on how he does in camp. If he is strong, I can see him getting a shot and Homer has been quoted saying eh has a chance with the big team. With 2 3rd liners in Briere and Giroux who are very good, he would be playing with alot of talent but not n a role where he is forced to suceeed(1st line) He would have good and bad games, but IMO would devlop nicely with those 2 players

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05-26-2009, 03:19 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
no, i am not new to hockey and i am also not new to physics either...the bottom line is at 5"10" 180lbs he isn't intimidating anyone from crashing the net and he isn't punishing anyone cycling the puck behind the net... the flyers have dmen that hit...what they need is a dman that can seperate players from the puck and punish them...i am sure robidas is one tough SOB but the bottomline is he ain't what the flyers need.
Sooo you want Dennis Gauthier?

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05-26-2009, 03:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
It depends on how he does in camp. If he is strong, I can see him getting a shot and Homer has been quoted saying eh has a chance with the big team. With 2 3rd liners in Briere and Giroux who are very good, he would be playing with alot of talent but not n a role where he is forced to suceeed(1st line) He would have good and bad games, but IMO would devlop nicely with those 2 players
He'd have to have a miraculous turn-around to make this team out of camp. He looked bad in the AHL this season, and I can't imagine that fast of a progression.

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