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marc staal for kessel

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Old
05-17-2009, 09:19 PM
  #51
ECL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
sanguinetti's a prime asset now? i'd do my best to move him this summer before he gets montoya'd
Haha, Montoya'd?

Sanguinetti made the AHL all-star team his rookie year. He's improved by leaps and bounds.

I thought you were a Rangers fan. Yet you don't pay attention to your own prospects.

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Old
05-17-2009, 10:23 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
sanguinetti's a prime asset now? i'd do my best to move him this summer before he gets montoya'd
montoya did not perform nearly as well at the ahl level with the rangers. we also dont have 6 henke equivalents playing defense for us....

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Old
05-18-2009, 07:32 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora View Post
not weird at all.. if you are i can be weird with you
Throw me in with the weirdos. I wouldn't do this trade if I am New York, offense be damned.

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Old
05-25-2009, 07:22 PM
  #54
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Like Kessel but he isn't worth near a player like Staal who should be a top 5 shut down defenseman by 24. He's almost there now. Ask Carolina if they wish they had a defenseman like Staal to go against Malkin and Crosby. They are being lit up like a torch by those 2 guys.

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Old
05-25-2009, 09:22 PM
  #55
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Rangers would have to give up a pick or a prospect to get Kessel. But, a Chara and Marc Staal line is just to scary to think about.

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Old
05-25-2009, 09:28 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youarentobjective View Post
Like Kessel but he isn't worth near a player like Staal who should be a top 5 shut down defenseman by 24. He's almost there now. Ask Carolina if they wish they had a defenseman like Staal to go against Malkin and Crosby. They are being lit up like a torch by those 2 guys.
Clearly, you aren't objective.

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Old
05-25-2009, 10:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I honestly think that Staal is one of the most underrated players in the league. He is young yet, and his game still needs polish. But, in time, he is going to be an absolute monster (not that he isn't already).

Kessel looks like he could get 40 - 50 goals, but I think I'd rather have Staal if I were Sather.
I'm glad I'm not alone in this line of thinking. I'm about as critical of the Rangers as a team as just about anybody out there and Staal to me was their best player in the playoffs and just seems to be getting better and better as time goes on.

This is the kind of trade that the aggressor pays more to get what he wants from the other team because neither team should really be letting either player go at this time.

If the Rangers do want to trade Staal, have a heart and send him out West. The Isles have a hard enough time scoring goals as it is and I don't want to watch him get better. It's bad enough I'm showering ****ing praise on a Ranger right now. I'm going to go take a shower. Edit - I think I reached the quota for the word shower already...aaaaand....now I've edited my way over it. ****.

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Old
05-25-2009, 10:58 PM
  #58
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who exactly are the DEFENSive prospects behind Staal? I understand we have Del Zotto and Sanguinetti but as a DEFENSEman Staal is the best the Rangers have. Kessel is good but Staal is not someone the Rangers should be giving up.

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Old
05-25-2009, 11:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
What a silly thing to say. Kessel is a one dimensional forward. Sure he is great at putting the puck in the net, but the guy wouldn't know his own zone if it bit him. Marc Staal is one of the best defensive defenders in the game, and he is starting to learn the offensive game very well. I will guarantee you, under Tortorella he will have 30 points next season, and be stellar on the defensive side as well.
That would mean he doubles his total from this year. Unless he gets significant PP time i highly doubt this happens.

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Old
05-26-2009, 12:59 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by sattar18 View Post
That would mean he doubles his total from this year. Unless he gets significant PP time i highly doubt this happens.
The thing is he will see significant PP time. He didn't see any under Renney, but was moved onto one of the units periodically under Tortorella and looked great. I'm sure that he'll be working on that over the entire summer.

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Old
05-26-2009, 01:42 AM
  #61
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Value wise its not bad for either team, but it does little to address the needs of the Bruins, and does way more for the Rangers at least immediately. Not to say Staal is less valuable than Kessel, but to the Bruins that is the case.

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Old
05-26-2009, 01:48 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
What a silly thing to say. Kessel is a one dimensional forward. Sure he is great at putting the puck in the net, but the guy wouldn't know his own zone if it bit him. Marc Staal is one of the best defensive defenders in the game, and he is starting to learn the offensive game very well. I will guarantee you, under Tortorella he will have 30 points next season, and be stellar on the defensive side as well.
How is it silly? It's irrelevant if Kessel is one-dimensional, he's an impact player RIGHT NOW. Staal is becoming a very good defenseman, but he's not a game changer. He may well become one, but he's not there yet.

Don't get me wrong, I might take Staal in the long run, but my point was about the right now.

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:16 AM
  #63
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I'd rather have Staal, I don't see the rangers doing this.

But at the same time, I don't see the bruins doing this. They need kessel more than they need an amazing D-man like Staal. They already have a solid corps.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:15 AM
  #64
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Despite being wildly streaky, Kessel was in the top 14 amongst goal scorers in the league this past year.

Can anyone honestly say that Staal is amongst the top 14 anything for defensemen right now?

In two years, this might be an even up deal, right now it's not.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:51 AM
  #65
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Top 2 defenseman who can shut down the very best forwards in the game are worth more than the Kessel's of the world. We should end the thread on that.

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Old
05-26-2009, 07:26 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianscot View Post
Despite being wildly streaky, Kessel was in the top 14 amongst goal scorers in the league this past year.

Can anyone honestly say that Staal is amongst the top 14 anything for defensemen right now?

In two years, this might be an even up deal, right now it's not.
Would Kessel's abilities be put to good use in Tortarella's system? It's not like a math problem where if you add Kessel you're adding his scoring from last year to the Rangers. How would he fit in?

Also, Staal is a top two defenseman, right now, in his early twenties. The ceiling for him is pretty high, and he could easily become the type of player that is a lot harder to replace than Phil Kessel.

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Old
05-26-2009, 07:30 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Would Kessel's abilities be put to good use in Tortarella's system? It's not like a math problem where if you add Kessel you're adding his scoring from last year to the Rangers. How would he fit in?
Torts has never had trouble working with offense first players. In this deal, the team that takes the younger, more developed player wins. And that team is NY. Staal might develop into a top defenceman, but Kessel is a top forward right now. All the risk is on Boston's side of the equation.

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Old
05-26-2009, 07:59 AM
  #68
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In an era where defensemen can no longer clutch and grab, to have a standout dman who is calm in his own end at 22 and who stands toe to toe with the likes of Ovechin, Malkin & the Crysby you do not trade unless one of the former 3 is coming the other way. Anything less is getting, maybe, equal value, but leaves a huge hole in your blueline. Staal is the foundation of which the NYRs are building their defense. They already have a world class goalie, they have a stud shut down dman. The offensive foward can be had by other means. A BIG NO. Kessel is a nice player but I won't be trading Staal for him.

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Old
05-26-2009, 08:01 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
In this deal, the team that takes the younger, more developed player wins.
We are not comparing a forward to a forward or defenseman to a defenseman. There is a different time table for the two. Also there is the consideration of how close either of them is to hitting their ceilings (I suspect Kessel has less "upside" of the two). Also, the ease with which either of them could be replaced by their respective teams is an issue. Replacing a guy who could be your best defenseman for the next decade is probably harder than finding someone to fill Kessel's shoes.

In baseball their is a number called VORP (value over replacement player) that they calculate based on some complicated formula. What I am tlaking about is sort of a similar concept. I am saying that even though Kessel for Staal might be fair, the value of each of them over their prospective replacement players might not be close. In essence, the drop off in play between Staal and his replacement would hurt NYR more than the drop off in play between Kessel and his replacement. I don't know that to be true obviously, but I suspect it would.

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Old
05-26-2009, 08:34 AM
  #70
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Tlusty, Kubina, Hayes, Harrison, NYR 2nd round pick and one of White or Van Rynn


for:

Redden and Staal

Can also swap Drury for Stajan if the salary dump is worth it and required by the Rangers.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:27 PM
  #71
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Staal is untouchable. Not because he's a hall of fame talent right now. Because he's one of the few young defenseman who can play against Ovechkin, Crosby and Malkin and shut them down a lot. Not all the time but most of the time and that isn't easy to do. Last time I looked those guys are going anywhere.

I'd love to have Kessel but why would Boston move him? I'd rather take a run at Sturm or Bergeron who would cost less.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:34 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylove View Post
Tlusty, Kubina, Hayes, Harrison, NYR 2nd round pick and one of White or Van Rynn


for:

Redden and Staal

Can also swap Drury for Stajan if the salary dump is worth it and required by the Rangers.
don't post here again, sorry

noone is taking that salary.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:55 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Would Kessel's abilities be put to good use in Tortarella's system? It's not like a math problem where if you add Kessel you're adding his scoring from last year to the Rangers. How would he fit in?

Also, Staal is a top two defenseman, right now, in his early twenties. The ceiling for him is pretty high, and he could easily become the type of player that is a lot harder to replace than Phil Kessel.
Oh absolutely Kessel would flourish MUCH more in Tort's system than Claude's (that is if Tort's is doing the same thing he did in TB).

One of Kessel's greatest strengths is forechecking. The B's would send him in alone to disrupt the other team and his speed would often lead to forced dman errors. He gets in so fast on guys and can beat dmen going back around their own net. IRC Torts LOVES forechecking and up tempo hockey. So often on the B's Kessel would skate up the wing, enter the zone and find himself completely alone with no teammates. Then he'd have to stop and think (not his strong suit). Put him in an up tempo attack style AND give him pp time (which he didn't get in Boston) and he'd score 45 goals.

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