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A Redden Buyout: How Viable is the Idea

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Old
05-25-2009, 11:41 PM
  #26
Salvage21
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I'm pretty confident in thinking that if the cap does go down by the estimated five million during the '10-'11 season, then MOST teams will be in the same bind as the Rangers. I would have to imagine that the league would offer a buy-out period with no penalty towards the cap to relieve some cap.

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05-26-2009, 12:02 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvage21 View Post
I'm pretty confident in thinking that if the cap does go down by the estimated five million during the '10-'11 season, then MOST teams will be in the same bind as the Rangers. I would have to imagine that the league would offer a buy-out period with no penalty towards the cap to relieve some cap.
Do you have a link to this estimate? I just don't believe it will happen. I can see a salary cap freeze, but not a reduction. I mean one do you really see teams being penalized because they were close to the cap one year and then the following year they are over it? Doubtful.

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05-26-2009, 12:06 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
He's not going to get bought out. He's just not bad enough.
Yes he is

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05-26-2009, 12:31 AM
  #29
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It's not quite as cut and drive as 2/3 the remaining contract over twice the number of years remaining, though it often works out that way. For those who want to give themselves a headache, check out Article 50.5 (d) (iii) (page 205) of the CBA.

The important part:

Quote:
If a Club elects to buy out an SPC pursuant to the Ordinary Course Buyout provision set forth in Section 50.9(i) below, the disparity between the actual Player Salary and Bonuses paid in the earlier League Year(s) of the SPC and the Averaged Amount included in the Club's Averaged Club Salary in such League Year(s) is accounted for in how the buyout agreement is treated for purposes of averaging. For a Club that buys out an SPC pursuant to an Ordinary Course Buyout, the amount to be included in the Club's Averaged Club Salary for each League Year during the term of the buyout agreement is determined as follows:

(A) For a League Year during the term of the original SPC that was bought out, the included amount is the original Averaged Amount of the SPC for that League Year, reduced by the amount of the buyout "savings" for that League Year (with "buyout savings" defined as the actual amount of Player Salary and Bonuses that was to be paid under the SPC for such League Year minus the amount of Player Salary that is to be paid under the buyout agreement). If the amount of buyout "savings" in a League Year is more than the original Averaged Amount for such League Year, then the amount of such excess is included in the Averaged Club Salary for such League Year as a "credit."

(B) For a League Year following the term of the original SPC that was bought out, the amount included in the Club's Averaged Club Salary is the amount of Player Salary that is to be paid under the buyout agreement for that League Year.
There's a few very helpful illustrations in the CBA that help that gibberish make sense.

Based on that, assuming the Rangers bought him out this summer, the cap hit they'd take would be as follows:

Year 1 - $2.36M
Year 2 - $2.36M
Year 3 - $2.36M
Year 4 - $2.36M
Year 5 - $2.36M
Year 6 - $2.06M
Year 7 - $2.06M
Year 8 - $2.06M
Year 9 - $2.06M
Year 10 - $2.06

So tempting, but I just don't see it happening. Not this year anyway.

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05-26-2009, 01:34 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
He's not going to get bought out. He's just not bad enough. The team will at least give him another year or two to redeem himself.
Redeem from what exactly? he played great as soon as torts took over, if he can get that PP QB thing working than he's going to become the next "staal" on here.

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05-26-2009, 03:24 AM
  #31
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No buyout or waiver this year. At some point I could see a waiver when Sangs and MDZ and/or Gilroy are ready.

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05-26-2009, 03:31 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvage21 View Post
I'm pretty confident in thinking that if the cap does go down by the estimated five million during the '10-'11 season, then MOST teams will be in the same bind as the Rangers. I would have to imagine that the league would offer a buy-out period with no penalty towards the cap to relieve some cap.
Most teams will not be in the same bind as the Rangers because most teams do not have non essential players like Gomez, Drury, Redden, Roszival eating up 1/2 of their cap long-term.

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05-26-2009, 07:00 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Redeem from what exactly? he played great as soon as torts took over, if he can get that PP QB thing working than he's going to become the next "staal" on here.
for 6.5 million he has to do a lot more than he showed even under torts.

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05-26-2009, 07:30 AM
  #34
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honestly is it that crazy to just say keep Redden and live with the contract for now and move Rozy to save some space

I mean Rozy should have enough value to atleast be moved for a pick and worse case a pick and some salary like 3 million coming back.

Then they have the most depth in the organization on D with Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Gilroy.........their is tons of offensive potential their and I also think Sauer can make the team

At this point Potter should be seen as nothing more than a 6th pr 7th Dman given he is 25 but I think he can play too

Who knows about this Heikkinin kid too

Mara and Morris have to go because of the cap

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05-26-2009, 10:01 AM
  #35
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Redden is going to be here a couple of more years at least, We can only hope that he becomes more motovated under Tort's, & he comes into camp in better shape than he has in the past.

Best case scenerio is we get 2 solid years out of him like we did with Kasperitis, & hope his playoff preformance carries over into the upcoming season. Perhaps down the line as his contract obligation in years & money decreases he will become more tradeable.


What bothers me is that we are going to lose a quality player & locker room guy in Mara to make Reddens contract fit.

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Old
05-26-2009, 10:05 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Redeem from what exactly? he played great as soon as torts took over, if he can get that PP QB thing working than he's going to become the next "staal" on here.
Great is an awfully strong word. Good might be a strong word too. He looked like be belonged in the NHL when Torts took over. The guy has clearly lost a few steps from his hay-day, and I find it hard to believe he will regain them.

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05-26-2009, 10:27 AM
  #37
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one of the worst contracts in hockey history...

ouch we are going to def have to wait another year or two to think about buyout.

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05-26-2009, 10:28 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Great is an awfully strong word. Good might be a strong word too. He looked like be belonged in the NHL when Torts took over. The guy has clearly lost a few steps from his hay-day, and I find it hard to believe he will regain them.
I agree. Redden was better after Torts took over but in no way does he look like a player worthy of his contract and that is a crux of the problem facing the Rangers these days--overpaying for veterans who can't lead on the ice. Redden is not being paid just to be reliable. He's being paid to be a No. 1 d-man--for $6.5 mil he should be good defensively and at least worth 45-50 points per season. I did not see that player last year and I have grave doubts that I'm ever going to see that player.

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05-26-2009, 10:33 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
What bothers me is that we are going to lose a quality player & locker room guy in Mara to make Reddens contract fit.
Mara is probably gone regardless. I don't think he fits what Torts wants from his dmen and I can't see paying him 2 mil + to play on the 3rd pair. I know we did last year with Kalinin, but Torts doesn't play the 3rd pair as much as Renney did.

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05-26-2009, 10:36 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I agree. Redden was better after Torts took over but in no way does he look like a player worthy of his contract and that is a crux of the problem facing the Rangers these days--overpaying for veterans who can't lead on the ice. Redden is not being paid just to be reliable. He's being paid to be a No. 1 d-man--for $6.5 mil he should be good defensively and at least worth 45-50 points per season. I did not see that player last year and I have grave doubts that I'm ever going to see that player.
I can defend the Drury, Gomez, and Rozsival signings to varying degrees, but the Redden signing and his hideous contract is absolutely mind-boggling to me, considering our need for offense last off-season, and the fact that Redden was on the slippery slope of decline for 2 seasons prior.

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05-26-2009, 10:42 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post

What bothers me is that we are going to lose a quality player & locker room guy in Mara to make Reddens contract fit.
What bothers me is we're probably going to have to dump Roszival (who is supremely underrated around here, and is going to be more difficult to replace than most realize) in order to create cap space to help our the forward situation. This is a direct by-product of Redden's hideous 6.5 million dollar hit.

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05-26-2009, 10:52 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
He's not going to get bought out. He's just not bad enough. The team will at least give him another year or two to redeem himself.
true.

and um........ he was one of our better dmen at the end of the season and playoffs.

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05-26-2009, 11:11 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What bothers me is we're probably going to have to dump Roszival (who is supremely underrated around here, and is going to be more difficult to replace than most realize) in order to create cap space to help our the forward situation. This is a direct by-product of Redden's hideous 6.5 million dollar hit.
huh?

you are talking about "mr. fumble the puck at the blue line, refuse to shoot even when wide open, pass the puck to no one and turn the puck over in the zone because we skate in mudd".

that guy?

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05-26-2009, 11:14 AM
  #44
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huh?

you are talking about "mr. fumble the puck at the blue line, refuse to shoot even when wide open, pass the puck to no one and turn the puck over in the zone because we skate in mudd".

that guy?
No

Im talking about the guy that has played 20+ minutes a night and has been a top pairing defenseman for the majority of his 4 seasons here.

That guy.

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05-26-2009, 11:32 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Salvage21 View Post
I'm pretty confident in thinking that if the cap does go down by the estimated five million during the '10-'11 season, then MOST teams will be in the same bind as the Rangers. I would have to imagine that the league would offer a buy-out period with no penalty towards the cap to relieve some cap.
You'd need the union to go along with that since it's not provided for in the CBA.

However, if the cap did go down substantially, that might convince an owner to eat salary in a buyout because his team would be too constrained by the cap otherwise.

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05-26-2009, 11:33 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
true.

and um........ he was one of our better dmen at the end of the season and playoffs.
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
huh?

you are talking about "mr. fumble the puck at the blue line, refuse to shoot even when wide open, pass the puck to no one and turn the puck over in the zone because we skate in mudd".

that guy?
Not the biggest fan of Rozsival, but you're going to say this after you called Redden one of our better defensemen, lol? I'll take Rozsival over Redden any day.

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
No

Im talking about the guy that has played 20+ minutes a night and has been a top pairing defenseman for the majority of his 4 seasons here.

That guy.
Just because he plays on our top pairing doesn't make him a top pairing defenseman, it just shows that we have a very average group of blueliners. He's a solid 2nd pairing defenseman, with a propensity to make some incredibly inopportune errors sometimes.

He'll be missed, but again, only because of how mediocre the team is to begin with.

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05-26-2009, 11:49 AM
  #47
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Just because he plays on our top pairing doesn't make him a top pairing defenseman, it just shows that we have a very average group of blueliners. He's a solid 2nd pairing defenseman, with a propensity to make some incredibly inopportune errors sometimes.

He'll be missed, but again, only because of how mediocre the team is to begin with.
I never said he was your run of the mill "first pairing defenseman." The fact of the matter is he's played big minutes over the last 4 seasons for a perennial playoff team.

I think one of the hardest things to do in sports in learning how to play defense at the NHL level, and I dont think replacing him with a kid is going to be as seamless as everyone seems to think.

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05-26-2009, 11:49 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What bothers me is we're probably going to have to dump Roszival (who is supremely underrated around here, and is going to be more difficult to replace than most realize) in order to create cap space to help our the forward situation. This is a direct by-product of Redden's hideous 6.5 million dollar hit.
Let me make clear that I didn't want Redden here at any price, even less so at the ridiculous contract he was given, but you take the good with the bad. We also have a top 6 forward in Avery making $1.9 MM and we previously had Jagr at a ridiculous discount.

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05-26-2009, 11:51 AM
  #49
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Let me make clear that I didn't want Redden here at any price, even less so at the ridiculous contract he was given, but you take the good with the bad. We also have a top 6 forward in Avery making $1.9 MM and we previously had Jagr at a ridiculous discount.
Sean Avery has got to be the only top 6 forward in history thats never surpassed 18 goals or 48 points in a season.

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Old
05-26-2009, 11:53 AM
  #50
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Not the biggest fan of Rozsival, but you're going to say this after you called Redden one of our better defensemen, lol? I'll take Rozsival over Redden any day.



Just because he plays on our top pairing doesn't make him a top pairing defenseman, it just shows that we have a very average group of blueliners. He's a solid 2nd pairing defenseman, with a propensity to make some incredibly inopportune errors sometimes.

He'll be missed, but again, only because of how mediocre the team is to begin with.

actually, for the end of the regular season and inc. the wash series, he was. sorry, true. his play picked up dramatically. not sure if that means he was good or if the rest of the d was that bad, either way, wade did play as well as any other dman we had for that stretch- inc marc staal and dan girardi.

reddens play for much of the regular season was at times, awful. rozys play for the whole year was, for the most part, atrocious. theres the difference. one guy stepped it up when it mattered, the other was mediocre at best and often just plain bad.

my memories of rozy are screaming at the tv saying... get him off the power play point now !! and, watching as he lumbered out of the d zone with the puck only to get stripped or fumble it or just throw it away. he became the human turnover.

ill take redden over rozy thank you very much. atleast redden will take the occasional shot, make a good pass here and there and isnt prone to "stevie wonder" passing.

no contest. rozy must go.

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