HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Toronto - Minnesota

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-26-2009, 07:50 AM
  #26
mydnyte
Registered User
 
mydnyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,608
vCash: 500
any way you break it down it doesnt work for the Leafs!

Nick Schultz, 12th overall for Kaberle ...yes
that leaves
Josh Harding for the 7th, and 2nd rounder ...Big NO there

12th overall for Kaberle ...maybe, doubt Burke would
that leaves
Nick Schultz, Josh Harding for the 7th, and 2nd rounder ...sorry, i dont think so

Harding is the best asset in the deal (other than the pick) coming from Minny
Harding even up for Kaberle = NO
Harding even up for 7th overall = NO
Harding even up for the 2nd rounder = NO from Minny, though is what was paid for established goalies like Biron

Schultz = 2nd ...yes, since he's nothing more than a "project" at this point, where you're hoping he can come into his own, and get back to what was expected from him.

a fair trade may be:
Kaberle
for
Schultz
Harding
Leave all the picks out of it. ...Minny gets the best player, and Leafs get "Potential"

mydnyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 08:00 AM
  #27
mnwildfan79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
any way you break it down it doesnt work for the Leafs!

Nick Schultz, 12th overall for Kaberle ...yes
that leaves
Josh Harding for the 7th, and 2nd rounder ...Big NO there

12th overall for Kaberle ...maybe, doubt Burke would
that leaves
Nick Schultz, Josh Harding for the 7th, and 2nd rounder ...sorry, i dont think so

Harding is the best asset in the deal (other than the pick) coming from Minny
Harding even up for Kaberle = NO
Harding even up for 7th overall = NO
Harding even up for the 2nd rounder = NO from Minny, though is what was paid for established goalies like Biron

Schultz = 2nd ...yes, since he's nothing more than a "project" at this point, where you're hoping he can come into his own, and get back to what was expected from him.

a fair trade may be:
Kaberle
for
Schultz
Harding
Leave all the picks out of it. ...Minny gets the best player, and Leafs get "Potential"
Your understanding of Nick Shultz is lacking.

He is not a project. He is a young shutdown defender with years of experience. I'm not saying he has huge value or anything but to clasify him as a project is incorrect.

I agree the value is off, you'd probably need to take the 2nd out or add 2 of our 4ths to get it closer.

12th + Shultz >> 7th
Kaberle > Harding
2nd > 4th, 4th

mnwildfan79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 08:05 AM
  #28
hockeylove
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
12th + Shultz is NOT more valuable than the 7th unless the leafs don't have their eye on someone in the top 8 (which they almost certainly do).

12th + Shultz for Kaberle and a 3rd rounder?

hockeylove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 08:06 AM
  #29
mydnyte
Registered User
 
mydnyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnwildfan79 View Post
Your understanding of Nick Shultz is lacking.

He is not a project. He is a young shutdown defender with years of experience. I'm not saying he has huge value or anything but to clasify him as a project is incorrect.

I agree the value is off, you'd probably need to take the 2nd out or add 2 of our 4ths to get it closer.

12th + Shultz >> 7th
Kaberle > Harding
2nd > 4th, 4th
my assessment of Schultz could be WAY off, but there is no way he plus the 12th pick in a 7 person deep draft is worth the 7th overall. ...12th pick will be a high quality player, but, 7th pick is a potential (2nd tier) franchise player

and in no way do 2 4th's = a 2nd

...and Schultz has regressed. True, i do remember his great hype, but, he hasnt lived up to it. ...in a few seasons people will be saying the same thing about Schenn if he doesnt continue to advance.

mydnyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 08:11 AM
  #30
mydnyte
Registered User
 
mydnyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylove View Post
12th + Shultz is NOT more valuable than the 7th unless the leafs don't have their eye on someone in the top 8 (which they almost certainly do).

12th + Shultz for Kaberle and a 3rd rounder?
not enough from Totonto.

12th + Shultz for Kaberle and a 2nd, and 3rd rounder
or
12th + Shultz for Kaberle and two 2nd rounders

...that 12th pick is valuable.

Kaberle = 12th pick ...okay value wise
Schultz = 2nd +3rd, or 2 2nds depending on what you think of him.

mydnyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 09:17 AM
  #31
mnwildfan79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
my assessment of Schultz could be WAY off, but there is no way he plus the 12th pick in a 7 person deep draft is worth the 7th overall. ...12th pick will be a high quality player, but, 7th pick is a potential (2nd tier) franchise player

and in no way do 2 4th's = a 2nd

...and Schultz has regressed. True, i do remember his great hype, but, he hasnt lived up to it. ...in a few seasons people will be saying the same thing about Schenn if he doesnt continue to advance.
I should have included the (I thought) obvious disclaimer that the Leafs won't be trading down if the player the are targeting at 7 is still there thus nullifying the whole proposal.

I wasn't around this board when Shultz was a prospect so I don't know what the expectations were (or what the hype was about), but as a Wild fan he has been exactly what I thought he was going to be... a solid 1st-2nd pairing shutdown d-man that eats minutes and rarely makes mistakes in his own zone. I guess you always hope a guy like that magically finds an offensive streak, but it never seemed likely. Of course last year he went from 0 offensive production to 1 (on a scale of 0-10) and now Lemaire is gone so maybe this year he'll be a 2! Maybe in that way he is a 'project'.

I didn't imply 2 4ths equals a 2nd, I just thought it might help get the value closer.

mnwildfan79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 09:24 AM
  #32
IBLeaf*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oakville, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,378
vCash: 500
No thanks. Why give up a better defenceman, a better pick, and a 2nd to get a goalie prospect?

IBLeaf* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 09:46 AM
  #33
hockeylove
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
not enough from Totonto.

12th + Shultz for Kaberle and a 2nd, and 3rd rounder
or
12th + Shultz for Kaberle and two 2nd rounders

...that 12th pick is valuable.

Kaberle = 12th pick ...okay value wise
Schultz = 2nd +3rd, or 2 2nds depending on what you think of him.
Based on your values I think the Leafs do this deal if they get Shultz and the 12th for Kaberle and NYR 2nd. To get the Leafs to do the Kaberle for the 12th you'd have to throw in the extra third rounder which would leave Schultz for a 2nd (cross out the 3rds).

Schultz + 12th overall

Kaberle + NYR 2nd round pick


Or instead of the 2nd the Leafs could throw in Poni and the Wild could throw in their 2nd in '10

Schultz, 12th overall, 2010 2nd rounder

Kaberle and Ponikarovsky

hockeylove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 11:00 AM
  #34
seanlinden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,146
vCash: 500
I think a lot of you guys are missing out on what it takes for a Kaberle to Minnesota deal to get done.... and that is that they have to decide they ABSOLUTELY want Kaberle long term.

Why is this? Schultz has little to no value to the Leafs; they've already got Schenn & White in 2nd pair roles, and money to spend on UFAs. The movable assets which Toronto is interested in are the 12th overall & Harding. The problem is that one of these assets as a centerpiece is not good enough to justify moving Kaberle. To trade your #1 defenceman with a great contract for a goaltender who you may not even need makes very little sense. Furthermore, trading Kaberle for a draft pick where the player isn't even projected to be as good as Kaberle right now makes even less sense. Adding "kicker" assets (like Schultz or 2nd round picks) would not tempt the leafs because we have organizational depth, we lack the high end assets. Therefore, its gotta be BOTH coming back from Minnesota. The Leafs need a goaltender, but can problably get one through free agency. We have more pressing needs up front which our trading assets must be used for.

Why the Wild can't do this? Recently rated the League's worst prospect pool; this is a team that missed the playoffs, and looks like it is about to lose Marian Gaborik for nothing. While they've got a good bunch of young players; there's no real star or cornerstone forward, something they might be able to get at #12. The only way they can afford to part with their only 2 valuable assets is if it fixes all of their problems; which Kaberle doesn't. He is a puckmover, but so is Burns and so is Marek Zidlicky (who I beleive was really handcuffed under Lemaire). Johnsson and Schultz make a good pair to round out the top 4. If anything, perhaps upgrading form Johnsson to Kubina makes sense.... but not paying the price of both valuable assets to get a guy like Kaberle.


Last edited by seanlinden: 05-26-2009 at 11:12 AM.
seanlinden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 11:14 AM
  #35
Bookman
Registered User
 
Bookman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: frozen north
Posts: 7,094
vCash: 1000
A couple other things about Schultz - he is pretty smart on and off the ice.He has been the Wild's union rep for a few years now. He also blocks a ton of shots, and has led the team in that for a number of years running. He is a quality defensive defenseman who is decent at moving the puck up the ice.

Bookman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-26-2009, 11:26 AM
  #36
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
I don't have a problem with Schultz, I'm just not of the mind the Leafs should bve adding a defenceman, and especially a defensive guy who sounds like Finger and Schenn (with more experience) who gets paid $3.5 million. It's a waste of money at this point, and a waste of assets to acquire another guy like him.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.