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I can understand that Kings fans are over protective of their young prospects and players but this is borderline ridiculous. You're valuing unproven players at virtually the same level as superstar nhlers. Jack Johnson for Kessel and Ference and you wouldn't pull the trigger???? That is why you're not an NHL gm.
Kings fans, you will not get the world for guys like Johnson, Teubert and Hickey. All excellent prospect dmen with loads of potential but until they've shown signs of reaching that potential, they're just prospects and not worth proven superstars.
The Heatley offer was borderline hideous, moving spare parts for Lecavalier and believing you could hold on to the #5 is laughable at best, thinking J-Bo would sign in LA... Hehe. Though my favourite line of this thread is where some kings fan said something to the effect of, "We're actually going to try and make the playoffs next year" as though his team hasn't been trying. Anyways, if you don't want to trade your prospects, fine, but stop asking for a king's ransom for a guy who's rumored to be asking for... a king's ransom in salary next season.
They don't even want to know what Rhymenocerus thinks about this thread.
Lately there have been a lot of proposals involving LA. And almost all of them proposed by fans of other teams seem to be totally out of sync with what LA would move or would take. So I decided to make a cheat sheet for the other proposers and save everyones' time.
LA is attempting to come out of a rebuild. We are deep in picks, prospects and cap space. We want quality NHL players back that are in their 20s. We also like our talented players to be tough like Kovalchuk who is not a pushover. They don't have to throw down but they should be able to give a body check and take a check too. No hoverers.
Keep in mind that the Kings are young and loaded with talent everywhere but left wing. Even if we stay pat, we stand to improve greatly so we can afford to do no deals in terms of a trade rather than make a bad deal that makes no sense.
Here's what LA needs: (All players in their 20s)
1) First line - Left Wing
2) A dynamic first line scorer (creates plays from little and makes plays, scoring at a point a game or more) that is not a Right Wing (players that can play either wing are acceptable if they are a top 20 wing in this league, from Gagne to Zetterberg to Hossa to Gaborik, like that caliber, not necessarily exactly those players)...and by first line, I don't mean a guy that is on your first line. I mean a guy who would could be on any team's first line.
3) A veteran star two-way defenseman to possibly mentor our young defense corps and the uber amount of D prospects we already have...this player can be in his 30s depending on his caliber
4) Any real upgrade player at any position, especially for prospects/picks back, if that player is in the correct age range.
5) Unloading Tom Preissing's contract
6) This one is my personal opinion but I feel we need a quality 3rd line winger to cause mismatches in the playoffs and play on the Handzus/Simmonds line, again preferrably a LW but a RW will do in a pinch...would like a tough, smart veteran who can score a bit
7) And of course, this being HF boards, we will take your young stud players too like Schenn and Lucic but I doubt anyone's offering
Here's what LA doesn't need:
1) Your puck-moving defenseman or anyone named Tomas Kaberle
2) Your prospects, and even some of the Kings fans are goofing on this, asking for Van Riemsdyk
3) Your first rounder from this year that is a worse pick than our #5 overall...there is an excellent LW player that projects to be available at that pick named Magnus Paajarvi-Svenssen so if what you're offering isn't an upgrade of him at LW or even Center, forget it.
4) We are not one player away from The Cup so we do not need your veteran rentals.
Here's what LA has to offer:
1) Any pick from this year or next
2) Quality prospects at Defense
3) Quality prospects at Center
4) Quality prospects at Goaltending
5) Quality prospects at Right Wing
6) More cap space than God...ok, not really, but more cap space than 90% of the teams out there
7) Possibly Jack Johnson but not as a dump
Here's what LA won't trade: (Obviously everyone is available for a top 5-ish young player in the league such as Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Toews, etc. But I doubt those guys are being rushed to the trading block by their fans. )
1) Anything in their needs, duh...this includes our best LW Alexander Frolov, unless the deal returns an even better NHLer LW or two good NHL LWs that aren't as good as Frolov that fill two roster slots well
2) Dustin Brown - he is our captain and his attitude is the one our team is being built around
3) Drew Doughty - I'm not going to bother explaining this as just about everyone understands this
4) Any quality roster player where we aren't getting a better player at the same position in return that is in the age range mentioned above, or is a significant player that is a bigger need like LW. Quality players not mentioned already include: Handzus, Williams, Kopitar, Quincey, Greene, Simmonds, Stoll, Quick and Ersberg. These players have some value to the current building process and will not be dumped unless for an upgrade.
Thank you and perhaps other Kings fans can chip in and help refine this list as I don't speak for everyone.
Unlike the fans of many other teams on this board, there are no real untouchables, except maybe Brown and Doughty, on this team because this team was only good enough to miss the playoffs and get the #5th overall pick. We have no untouchable prospects despite the quality. So feel free to propose deals but if they don't fill the Kings needs while having the Kings give something that makes sense, well, flame on.
- R
My proposal:
TB gets:
5th pick
Jack Johnson
Oscar Moller
LA gets:
Vinny Lecavalier
LA gets the superstar bigtime goal scorer that could take them to the next step (being competitive)
TB gets enough rebuilding parts to make up for Vinny's loss. Then they could either draft Hedman, Schenn or Taveres, Cowen with their two top 10 picks.
LA gets the superstar bigtime goal scorer that could take them to the next step (being competitive)
TB gets enough rebuilding parts to make up for Vinny's loss. Then they could either draft Hedman, Schenn or Taveres, Cowen with their two top 10 picks.
I can understand that Kings fans are over protective of their young prospects and players but this is borderline ridiculous. You're valuing unproven players at virtually the same level as superstar nhlers. Jack Johnson for Kessel and Ference and you wouldn't pull the trigger???? That is why you're not an NHL gm.
Kings fans, you will not get the world for guys like Johnson, Teubert and Hickey. All excellent prospect dmen with loads of potential but until they've shown signs of reaching that potential, they're just prospects and not worth proven superstars.
The Heatley offer was borderline hideous, moving spare parts for Lecavalier and believing you could hold on to the #5 is laughable at best, thinking J-Bo would sign in LA... Hehe. Though my favourite line of this thread is where some kings fan said something to the effect of, "We're actually going to try and make the playoffs next year" as though his team hasn't been trying. Anyways, if you don't want to trade your prospects, fine, but stop asking for a king's ransom for a guy who's rumored to be asking for... a king's ransom in salary next season.
Well, original proposal was Johnson + Simmonds for Kessel and Ference. The Simmonds/Ference part makes the proposal hard to take. If it was Kessel for Johnson straight across oh you betcha I'll take that, and I think you'll find plenty of Kings fans that would as well. Some will object that Kessel is not necessary a Lombardi kind of guy, or he's too small, or not quite proven enough (i.e., not Kovalchuk).
Kings fans (as are all fanbases) are a variegated lot. We've got guys that are probably ready to deal Johnson for Sturm all the way through guys that won't give up Kopitar for Crosby. To see some of this bipolarity, check out the Lecavalier discussions on the Kings board.
LA gets the superstar bigtime goal scorer that could take them to the next step (being competitive)
TB gets enough rebuilding parts to make up for Vinny's loss. Then they could either draft Hedman, Schenn or Taveres, Cowen with their two top 10 picks.
Swap out Moller for a different forward prospect (e.g., Boyle, Lewis) and take either Stoll or Preissing and you have a deal.
Again, I don't get why some kings fans lump JJ in any deal. He's a keeper. 1.5 yrs in the league, had unfortunate injuries to his ankle (broken) & shoulder (separated, had surgery). Both are a result of how he plays....tough. Now, all of a sudden, he's a bust and a cancer? Give me a break and stop your lemming ways.
No matter how hard TB tries to get fair value for VL, it is not going to happen.
This is more realistic:
Hickey
Moller
Purcell or Boyle
5th overall
TB can take it or leave it and let them deal with the VL's contract.
Again, I don't get why some kings fans lump JJ in any deal. He's a keeper. 1.5 yrs in the league, had unfortunate injuries to his ankle (broken) & shoulder (separated, had surgery). Both are a result of how he plays....tough. Now, all of a sudden, he's a bust and a cancer? Give me a break and stop your lemming ways.
No matter how hard TB tries to get fair value for VL, it is not going to happen.
This is more realistic:
Hickey
Moller
Purcell or Boyle
5th overall
TB can take it or leave it and let them deal with the VL's contract.
I'd do that, too, but I think the reason behind JJ being lumped into any deal is mainly because he's NHL ready, plus his contract is due this year. Add to that the fact that we do have Hickey and Teubert in the wings, Lombardi may feel he has enough to replace him with. I tend to agree with that line of thinking.
I'm going with the masses in that'll probably look something like:
I can understand that Kings fans are over protective of their young prospects and players but this is borderline ridiculous. You're valuing unproven players at virtually the same level as superstar nhlers. Jack Johnson for Kessel and Ference and you wouldn't pull the trigger???? That is why you're not an NHL gm.
Kings fans, you will not get the world for guys like Johnson, Teubert and Hickey. All excellent prospect dmen with loads of potential but until they've shown signs of reaching that potential, they're just prospects and not worth proven superstars.
Oh really? So prospects aren't worth proven superstars? That's funny.....
Jaromir Jagr
2001-Jul-11 Traded from Pittsburgh Penguins with Frantisek Kucera to Washington Capitals for Kris Beech, Ross Lupaschuk and Michal Sivek
Not Trevor Lewis..
Boyle or Purcell and take Stoll too..
But then we're thin at center..
Lecavalier
Kopitar
Handzus
Lewis
I guess we're ok.. This is a much bigger upgrade than
Kopitar
Stoll
Handzus
Armstrong
It is time to end the Armstrong experiment. He should have been gone 3 yrs ago.
I have said this before & I'll say it again, if the kings want to win a Cup, they need to get a 1a/1b center & move Zus to the 4th line. Thus creating 2 scoring lines & 2 solid 3rd lines. Furthermore, the "he makes too much money to be on the 3rd or 4th line" argument does not hold much water with me. Both stoll & zus are not 1a/1b centers. Both are elite 3rd line centers that win faceoffs & kill penalties. Not to mention have great work ethic & character. Every team needs players like them.
It is time to end the Armstrong experiment. He should have been gone 3 yrs ago.
I have said this before & I'll say it again, if the kings want to win a Cup, they need to get a 1a/1b center & move Zus to the 4th line. Thus creating 2 scoring lines & 2 solid 3rd lines. Furthermore, the "he makes too much money to be on the 3rd or 4th line" argument does not hold much water with me. Both stoll & zus are not 1a/1b centers. Both are elite 3rd line centers that win faceoffs & kill penalties. Not to mention have great work ethic & character. Every team needs players like them.
Kopitar
Center
Stoll
Zus
All I said was that if we were to get Lecavalier and Stoll would go the other way, it would be an upgrade from last year lol.. I never said I wanted Armstrong to come back.. I think our centers should like this
Again, I don't get why some kings fans lump JJ in any deal. He's a keeper. 1.5 yrs in the league, had unfortunate injuries to his ankle (broken) & shoulder (separated, had surgery). Both are a result of how he plays....tough. Now, all of a sudden, he's a bust and a cancer? Give me a break and stop your lemming ways.
No matter how hard TB tries to get fair value for VL, it is not going to happen.
...
TB can take it or leave it and let them deal with the VL's contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaAnimal
As much of i love the Vinny deal, is there a way for the kings not to loose their 5th overall pick? I mean i personally wouldn't trade our 5th pick.
Tampa Bay does not HAVE to move Lecavalier. His contract (and impending NMC) and the last two seasons' results might have opened the door for another team to buy him, but he's still not going to be had at a deep discount. They're not going to accept spare parts just to move his contract.
I would LOVE to keep Johnson, and would be more than happy to replace him in these proposals with any defenseman in the system other than Doughty, but I don't think Tampa would go for it. If I'm Tampa, I start with Johnson and the 5th overall, otherwise I walk away from the table.
Tampa Bay does not HAVE to move Lecavalier. His contract (and impending NMC) and the last two seasons' results might have opened the door for another team to buy him, but he's still not going to be had at a deep discount. They're not going to accept spare parts just to move his contract.
I would LOVE to keep Johnson, and would be more than happy to replace him in these proposals with any defenseman in the system other than Doughty, but I don't think Tampa would go for it. If I'm Tampa, I start with Johnson and the 5th overall, otherwise I walk away from the table.
You're right they don't, but it will seriously hamper their ability to rebuild properly. So be it, let them live with the consequences.
TB is not going to get fair value for VL. JJ will not be part of a package to land VL. Carter or Malkin, yes. But not VL.
After reading Lombardi's letter over on our Kings boards(It's posted on www.lakings.com), and seeing some of the posts over there, I think a different deal may be in play. It's been discussed in the past, but I think it's realistic.
To Pittsburgh
JJ
2nd
To LA
Mr. Staal
An additional prospect may need to go to the Pens, but I think this is fair. JJ would be affordable defense for the Pens for years to come. Staal's contract would work well in LA's structure, not to mention giving LA more depth down the middle. Pitt would receive an early selection in the 2nd round, giving them more depth in their prospect pool.
EDIT: Oh, and JJ would get to play with his long-time buddy.
After reading Lombardi's letter over on our Kings boards(It's posted on www.lakings.com), and seeing some of the posts over there, I think a different deal may be in play. It's been discussed in the past, but I think it's realistic.
To Pittsburgh
JJ
2nd
To LA
Mr. Staal
An additional prospect may need to go to the Pens, but I think this is fair. JJ would be affordable defense for the Pens for years to come. Staal's contract would work well in LA's structure, not to mention giving LA more depth down the middle. Pitt would receive an early selection in the 2nd round, giving them more depth in their prospect pool.
EDIT: Oh, and JJ would get to play with his long-time buddy.
This is funny, I prosed this deal in a thread on the Kings HF boards earlier today. The Pens could also package the high 2nd rd pick from LA with there 1st to try and move up in the first round if they'd like as well.
After reading Lombardi's letter over on our Kings boards(It's posted on www.lakings.com), and seeing some of the posts over there, I think a different deal may be in play. It's been discussed in the past, but I think it's realistic.
To Pittsburgh
JJ
2nd
To LA
Mr. Staal
An additional prospect may need to go to the Pens, but I think this is fair. JJ would be affordable defense for the Pens for years to come. Staal's contract would work well in LA's structure, not to mention giving LA more depth down the middle. Pitt would receive an early selection in the 2nd round, giving them more depth in their prospect pool.
EDIT: Oh, and JJ would get to play with his long-time buddy.
So has Staal proven that much more than Johnson???
This is funny, I prosed this deal in a thread on the Kings HF boards earlier today. The Pens could also package the high 2nd rd pick from LA with there 1st to try and move up in the first round if they'd like as well.
It may have been one of the posts I read.
Good call on your part if it was yours, because I find it more realistic than picking up Vinny. TB will probably want more back than any of us are offering, not to mention his contract is a much bigger commitment than JS's. Staal is also younger, has playoff experience, plus he plays with an edge we need here in LA.
I'm not against LA going after Vinny, I just don't find it to be a realistic option as it is for us to aquire Staal.
