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Old
05-26-2009, 01:15 AM
  #51
ELab2
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
The value is good, but Hartnell has a NTC and I doubt the Flyers move him.
yeah but for that package? that's something.

I'd try to swap out Lupul and Parent for Hartnell. Atlanta never does that deal anyway.

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05-26-2009, 12:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread??? Ok, I'll post this again for the new guys.


I do think that a deal between the Flyers and Thrashers will get done before FA begins July 1st. I think the Flyers will be getting and resigning Lehtonen and the Thrashers will be giving th reigns to Pavelec. I think Lehtonen will be looking at 5-5.5 mil per season and the only way for Philly to take on thiat kind of salary is for Atlanta to take back some salary in return. I doubt that Briere waives his NMC for a number of reasons but they're not what's important, Briere no leaving Philly IS. Now for the deal:

Personally, I think it's going to be Lupul + for Lehtonen. The + depends upon what Atl wants, what they need, and when the deal gets done. I think that if Philly gives up at top 6 winger in Lupul that they will be hard pressed to give up JVR, their best prospect to have a chance to replace Lupul in the top 6. I could see it being Sbisa but from what I've been lead to believe from the Thrashers fans they have solid young dmen who really just need time to grow. Kovi has basically said that he wants to stay in Atl but only if they are committed to trying to win and be a playoff team. For that reason, I believe that Atl will wants quality raoster players instead of picks. They seemed to show interest in Andres Nodl and it it's true that they could use an upgrade to their STARTING top 4 (they have quality guys for the future but need some help now) then I think Parent will be the other player. This makes the deal as follows:

To Philly - Lehtonen
To Atlanta - Joffrey Lupul, Ryan Parent, Andres Nodl


feel free tothrow in 3rd and 4th rnd picks as you feel necessary to even the deal out. I understand that Philly doesn't want to give up Parent, the center pieces of the Forsberg trade, but if they are looking at adding a defensive upgrade from the UFA market then they need to make room on the top 4 anyways. I don't know where they are going to get the cap space to bring in a UFA dman but it is what Homer said he's gonna do.

Now before Flyers fans start jumping all over me about over paying, I'm not saying that I think this is fair value, it just seems to me to be in alignment with with what each team has said they want/need.
i understand your thinking but if that is what it takes to get lehtonen then i would pass.

i would not pay him $5MM+ because he his just as inconsistent as biron and more injury prone...i would rather resign biron for $4.5MM-$5MM.

i would not trade assets like lupul and parent for kari when they would probably be the cornerstone for a much better trade...lupul, parent, + for jbo?

if you are paying kari $5.5MM you can probably sign jbo for $1MM-$1.5MM more.

if the flyers made a move for kari my reaction would not be "alright, we are a step closer to the cup" it would be more like, "ok, atleast we didn't get any worse" and from talking to many other flyers fans, they feel the same way.

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Old
05-26-2009, 12:40 PM
  #53
mercury
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
yeah but for that package? that's something.

I'd try to swap out Lupul and Parent for Hartnell. Atlanta never does that deal anyway.
You're right, but I think a Hartnell-based deal is probably a non-starter. That 4th overall has a ton of value.

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Old
05-26-2009, 12:50 PM
  #54
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Lehtonen is incredibly overrated at this stage of his career... I wouldn't mind acquiring him and seeing what he can do, but right now Biron is better, and would be free asset-wise. Dealing JVR for Kari would be a bad move. Something centered around Lupul and a mid tier prospect or two makes more sense IMO

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05-26-2009, 01:25 PM
  #55
BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread??? Ok, I'll post this again for the new guys.


I do think that a deal between the Flyers and Thrashers will get done before FA begins July 1st. I think the Flyers will be getting and resigning Lehtonen and the Thrashers will be giving th reigns to Pavelec. I think Lehtonen will be looking at 5-5.5 mil per season and the only way for Philly to take on thiat kind of salary is for Atlanta to take back some salary in return. I doubt that Briere waives his NMC for a number of reasons but they're not what's important, Briere no leaving Philly IS. Now for the deal:

Personally, I think it's going to be Lupul + for Lehtonen. The + depends upon what Atl wants, what they need, and when the deal gets done. I think that if Philly gives up at top 6 winger in Lupul that they will be hard pressed to give up JVR, their best prospect to have a chance to replace Lupul in the top 6. I could see it being Sbisa but from what I've been lead to believe from the Thrashers fans they have solid young dmen who really just need time to grow. Kovi has basically said that he wants to stay in Atl but only if they are committed to trying to win and be a playoff team. For that reason, I believe that Atl will wants quality raoster players instead of picks. They seemed to show interest in Andres Nodl and it it's true that they could use an upgrade to their STARTING top 4 (they have quality guys for the future but need some help now) then I think Parent will be the other player. This makes the deal as follows:

To Philly - Lehtonen
To Atlanta - Joffrey Lupul, Ryan Parent, Andres Nodl

feel free tothrow in 3rd and 4th rnd picks as you feel necessary to even the deal out. I understand that Philly doesn't want to give up Parent, the center pieces of the Forsberg trade, but if they are looking at adding a defensive upgrade from the UFA market then they need to make room on the top 4 anyways. I don't know where they are going to get the cap space to bring in a UFA dman but it is what Homer said he's gonna do.

Now before Flyers fans start jumping all over me about over paying, I'm not saying that I think this is fair value, it just seems to me to be in alignment with with what each team has said they want/need.
I think keeping Parent is more important than getting Lehtonen.

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05-26-2009, 02:06 PM
  #56
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Just mulling over available goalies, but does Lupul + 1st get you Harding and Schultz - this would give Philly a Veteran stay at home guy, and a Goalie. Does Minny do this? Philly fans do you do this?

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05-26-2009, 02:06 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I think keeping Parent is more important than getting Lehtonen.
Well, I wasn't looking at this from a Flyers Best perspective. I was looking at it from "what does each team need and say they require in a trade". I think the Flyers would have togive up some very nice prices of they are making a run at Lehtonen.

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:10 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
Just mulling over available goalies, but does Lupul + 1st get you Harding and Schultz - this would give Philly a Veteran stay at home guy, and a Goalie. Does Minny do this? Philly fans do you do this?
I don't think that Harding would cost even that much. I think either a 1st is enough or Lupul + pick/average prospect would be enough.

Halak might cost a little more than Harding but he shouldn't cost more than Lupul + 1st either, and probably more lke Lupul + 2nd (which we don't actually have) or 1st + Marshall/Bourdon (2 very good looking 2nd pairing defensive prospects).

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Didn't we already beat this horse to death in another thread??? Ok, I'll post this again for the new guys.


I do think that a deal between the Flyers and Thrashers will get done before FA begins July 1st. I think the Flyers will be getting and resigning Lehtonen and the Thrashers will be giving th reigns to Pavelec. I think Lehtonen will be looking at 5-5.5 mil per season and the only way for Philly to take on thiat kind of salary is for Atlanta to take back some salary in return. I doubt that Briere waives his NMC for a number of reasons but they're not what's important, Briere no leaving Philly IS. Now for the deal:

Personally, I think it's going to be Lupul + for Lehtonen. The + depends upon what Atl wants, what they need, and when the deal gets done. I think that if Philly gives up at top 6 winger in Lupul that they will be hard pressed to give up JVR, their best prospect to have a chance to replace Lupul in the top 6. I could see it being Sbisa but from what I've been lead to believe from the Thrashers fans they have solid young dmen who really just need time to grow. Kovi has basically said that he wants to stay in Atl but only if they are committed to trying to win and be a playoff team. For that reason, I believe that Atl will wants quality raoster players instead of picks. They seemed to show interest in Andres Nodl and it it's true that they could use an upgrade to their STARTING top 4 (they have quality guys for the future but need some help now) then I think Parent will be the other player. This makes the deal as follows:

To Philly - Lehtonen
To Atlanta - Joffrey Lupul, Ryan Parent, Andres Nodl


feel free tothrow in 3rd and 4th rnd picks as you feel necessary to even the deal out. I understand that Philly doesn't want to give up Parent, the center pieces of the Forsberg trade, but if they are looking at adding a defensive upgrade from the UFA market then they need to make room on the top 4 anyways. I don't know where they are going to get the cap space to bring in a UFA dman but it is what Homer said he's gonna do.

Now before Flyers fans start jumping all over me about over paying, I'm not saying that I think this is fair value, it just seems to me to be in alignment with with what each team has said they want/need.
I think Atl does this - Scoring winger, Stay at home defender (young and cheap), Nodl - solid offensive prospect (2nd line potential), and they have Pavalec waiting for his shot

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:14 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I don't think that Harding would cost even that much. I think either a 1st is enough or Lupul + pick/average prospect would be enough.

Halak might cost a little more than Harding but he shouldn't cost more than Lupul + 1st either, and probably more lke Lupul + 2nd (which we don't actually have) or 1st + Marshall/Bourdon (2 very good looking 2nd pairing defensive prospects).
My thinking was: Harding = Lupul + 3rd
Schultz = 2nd + (mid tier prospect)
so together = Lupul + 1st

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:23 PM
  #61
kyle evs48
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Who are they drafting this year that is getting them to the play-offs? Do you think about these things, or are you just posting stuff? I also would not be surprised if a player like Briere got them over the hump.

Briere = PPG center over his career. Kovalchuk wants to see some serious efforts to improve the team and give him reason to resign. ATL fans, who know their team better than I do, are saying the team has more pressing needs. Fair enough, but the idea that Briere is useless that seems to be popular on these boards is just ridiculous.
If you think Briere is going to fix Atlanta, or be the deciding factor in a potential extension for Kovalchuk, then get a clue.

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05-26-2009, 02:28 PM
  #62
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lehts has a serious injury history and if he gets something like the 5 mil hes rumored asking for theres serious disaster potential there. id do it involving briere but not with lupul or jvr.

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Old
05-26-2009, 02:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
If you think Briere is going to fix Atlanta, or be the deciding factor in a potential extension for Kovalchuk, then get a clue.
I guess anything is possible, but I honestly think I have a better chance of making a snowball and popping the devil in the side of the face with it than there is of Briere being traded to Atlanta.

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05-26-2009, 02:52 PM
  #64
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I guess anything is possible, but I honestly think I have a better chance of making a snowball and popping the devil in the side of the face with it than there is of Briere being traded to Atlanta.
Good one.

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Old
05-26-2009, 03:00 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
My thinking was: Harding = Lupul + 3rd
Schultz = 2nd + (mid tier prospect)
so together = Lupul + 1st

Values seem OK, but does Minnesota want to deal Schultz?

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05-26-2009, 03:18 PM
  #66
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what would it take to get rask? Could he even be available? Would JVR and a first get it done?

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05-26-2009, 03:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Shoeny View Post
what would it take to get rask? Could he even be available? Would JVR and a first get it done?
I'm pretty sure that's an overpayment...a #2 overall and another first for still unproven goalie?

And, you know what they say...Prospect for Prospect trades just don't happen.

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05-26-2009, 03:26 PM
  #68
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Rask is not going anywhere, he's their goalie of the future. I doubt we could get him even if we did offer up JVR.

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05-26-2009, 03:29 PM
  #69
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Rask is not going anywhere, he's their goalie of the future. I doubt we could get him even if we did offer up JVR.
I don't know man...Thomas is signed for another 4 years. Never know if he'd be availible...

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05-26-2009, 03:36 PM
  #70
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i understand your thinking but if that is what it takes to get lehtonen then i would pass.

i would not pay him $5MM+ because he his just as inconsistent as biron and more injury prone...i would rather resign biron for $4.5MM-$5MM.

i would not trade assets like lupul and parent for kari when they would probably be the cornerstone for a much better trade...lupul, parent, + for jbo?

if you are paying kari $5.5MM you can probably sign jbo for $1MM-$1.5MM more.

if the flyers made a move for kari my reaction would not be "alright, we are a step closer to the cup" it would be more like, "ok, atleast we didn't get any worse" and from talking to many other flyers fans, they feel the same way.
if the flyers are going to pay 5.5 million for a goalie, ill take Khabibulin. And develop a goalie through the draft.

the stats speak for themselves about Lehtonen. If Briere is called overpaid, why wouldnt Lehtonen. He was 39th in GAA and 23rd in SV%.

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05-26-2009, 03:49 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Shoeny View Post
if the flyers are going to pay 5.5 million for a goalie, ill take Khabibulin. And develop a goalie through the draft.

the stats speak for themselves about Lehtonen. If Briere is called overpaid, why wouldnt Lehtonen. He was 39th in GAA and 23rd in SV%.
Because it is acceptable to overpay for "potential" to some fans.

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05-26-2009, 07:07 PM
  #72
ELab2
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Values seem OK, but does Minnesota want to deal Schultz?
I doubt they would. I think he'd be a nice addition but I'd like to see them bring in someone more physical. I would do that deal though.

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05-26-2009, 07:19 PM
  #73
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I doubt they would. I think he'd be a nice addition but I'd like to see them bring in someone more physical. I would do that deal though.
So would I, I just didn't hear anything about Schultz's situation. We'd be taking on a good bit of salary in that deal, as well (assuming Harding will get something around $2.5 million per). Jones would have to go somehow.

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05-26-2009, 08:50 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
If you think Briere is going to fix Atlanta, or be the deciding factor in a potential extension for Kovalchuk.............
He most likely won't be traded anywhere, on account of his actual value and trade value being so far apart, and his NMC. We are all just kicking around hypotheticals at this point. The deciding factor? No. An improvement over what they have now, at the cost of a goalie they might not want to resign and have a replacement for? Possibly. Where did I say Briere would "fix" Atlanta? He constitutes an upgrade is all. There are free agents this off season that might represent a better use of money than Briere's current salary, but I wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta misses out on a Gaborik or Hossa, and has to look to a trade to acquire top tier talent.



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.........then get a clue.
Get some manners, ass.

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Old
05-26-2009, 09:12 PM
  #75
kyle evs48
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Where did I say Briere would "fix" Atlanta?
Here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
I also would not be surprised if a player like Briere got them over the hump.
And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by not taking your statement so literally. A first line center will not fix Atlanta, to clear things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
He constitutes an upgrade is all. There are free agents this off season that might represent a better use of money than Briere's current salary, but I wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta misses out on a Gaborik or Hossa, and has to look to a trade to acquire top tier talent.
Atlanta is not at the point where they want pricey veterans. They are still looking for young talent.
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Get some manners, ass.
Strange request, considering you used this in your reply to my first post:
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Do you think about these things, or are you just posting stuff?

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